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Parent - By Bouddha (****) [ch] Date 2011-01-07 14:46
You have a point.
Parent - By Knight (**) Date 2011-01-07 16:14 Edited 2011-01-07 16:16

> Why should any customer believe a Cluster bug will be fixed?

With these prices, the bug must be fixed!.

This is Vas's last chance as a leader in the chess computer market. If it fails then he might have to find another job or be as poor as most people
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2011-01-08 01:59
Harvey, what are you talking about? Bugs in the cluster Rybka are easy to fix, there's no problem with distribution and so on.

Of course the Hiarcs team can't fix bugs in their cluster software, since there is no :)
Parent - - By Alien-51 Date 2011-01-08 04:29
Bugs in the cluster Rybka are easy to fix?? lol.. what about Rybka 3 and 4??  :neutral:
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2011-01-08 07:20
There's a distribution problem, it's not that easy to do. Also you don't want to have many updates therefore and so on. The cluster is completely different.
Parent - By tomgdrums (***) [us] Date 2011-01-08 20:50

> Also you don't want to have many updates therefore and so on.

I don't think ANYONE, ANYWHERE would ever complain that R3 and R4 have had TOO many updates or fixes..  So you guys are safe in that regards.
Parent - By SchachProfi (****) Date 2011-01-10 17:04

> There's a distribution problem

Strange, can't imagine any other software-developing company having this problem (others push out updates weekly or even daily to suit their customers wishes), maybe it is just between Vas' ears? :smile: Please explain on that what... what distribution-problem makes it impossible to you to fix the Multi-PV-bug even after months? Alex
Parent - By suj (***) Date 2011-01-13 22:19
I understand its internal logistics but that same internal logistics could have been applied by means of a easy to download patch on rybkachess website.2 yrs and still nothing that not enough time to issue one bug fix...
Parent - By tomgdrums (***) [us] Date 2011-01-08 20:49

> Of course the Hiarcs team can't fix bugs in their cluster software, since there is no :)

Or you could put it like this Felix:  The Hiarcs team has been too busy addressing the concerns of it's customers and providing said customers with good and timely service to actually spend time building a machine that hardly anyone can afford to rent time on.

Parent - - By suj (***) Date 2011-01-08 21:20
Yeah right felix I guess you dont know how the software industry works or you are in a different planet...
Parent - By patrick delaurentis (**) [us] Date 2011-03-15 03:29
ive read some interesting post about rybka cluster for rent- how much elo increase?
one question about improving as vas said above made me wonder..... how much stronger would rybka get if vas or a programmer could use some of the most powerful computers (im talking the new ones you hear about that have 50x the power of vas power) and reved hundreds of moves daily to major plys against plys of 22 that takes ten miniutes to reach on some hardware- how much stronger elo wise would it be if those moves were now the moves instantly played in a set game
reason im interested in these subjects is because i guess that hardware is the only real way (for the most part) for improving chess because computers are so much stronger then us as it is. i think ply and increasing ply through brute power will be the only real way top programmers will be able to create better engines in the coming years- any other thoughts?
Parent - By ppipper (****) [es] Date 2010-12-31 08:43
congratulations on launching this project. Sure I don't know how many sales of classical Rybka you are actually getting. But it seems this new model will be much more profitable for you and your team. Congratulations.

mass people are waiting for affordable Rybka 4/8 packs.

i also would not mind to pay for a classical Rybka updated versiĆ³n, once it is obsolete for the Cluster, which i guess will happen from time to time
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2011-01-03 16:34
Black text on a background of unspecified color is a bad idea. Particularly if the background can be nearly black.
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2011-01-03 17:05
ah, you talk about the diagram I assume, I forgot that one can change the design of the forum. I'll change that.
Parent - By dr_zied_haddad (**) [fr] Date 2011-01-05 11:12
I'd like to hope a happy new year for you and all the rybka team.
Glad to see that the cluster project for public is a reality.
I must say that the offer is really very expensive, but one cannot imagine that the beginning prices could be much lower.
The solution could be two projects in parallel, a private cluster computer for future development of rybla, and a public newly built bunch of computers for public use.

Hope also that there could be a product may be named Cluster RYBKA 1.0 that could be sold apart from access to the cloud rybka product, and where we could have updates of the latest Rybka products.
Parent - - By Axulus [us] Date 2011-01-07 02:26
I'm surprised that you didn't implement an auction pricing model, where time slots are bid on and would thus vary by demand (with perhaps a minimum price, if needed).  Would likely earn more profit that way, as well as have the cluster more efficiently utilized by users.
Parent - By tomski1981 (****) [ca] Date 2011-01-07 02:37

> Would likely earn more profit that way

maybe it would, but i doubt it. i'm no expert, but chess engine users are addicts... and they'll be willing to wait a few hours (even if it's in the middle of the night) when demand is low and the price is right...
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2011-01-07 02:41
Remember, you're talking to a guy who wears Che Guevara t-shirts. :roll:
Parent - By Quicksort (**) [fr] Date 2011-01-07 03:49
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark...
Parent - By rarara (**) Date 2011-01-08 11:09
"ChessBase GmbH and Convekta Ltd. are now working on solutions which will allow their customers to access the Rybka Cluster at any time without advance booking on a per-minute basis."

Sounds interesting! What I miss here is the "ICC". Maybe you should try to get their customers too. And ICC still has the biggest number of titled players (possible customers).
Just an idea :)
Parent - - By jps7 (**) [in] Date 2011-05-06 11:27
How can I hire Rybka Cluster for the next Freestyle chess Tournament or Advanced Chess Tournament.
Parent - - By jps7 (**) [in] Date 2011-05-06 23:49
Thnx Lukas. Is the cluster running as smooth as on my computer? When are the rents coming down?
Parent - By Lukas Cimiotti (*****) Date 2011-05-07 06:35

>Is the cluster running as smooth as on my computer?

Depends on your internet connection. From Germany to India the ping is around 250 ms. So bullet games won't be a good idea, but analyzing positions works perfectly well.
Parent - By robertj (**) [gb] Date 2011-05-26 16:37 Edited 2011-05-26 16:41

"The Rybka Cluster is a high-performance supercomputer located in Minden/Westfalen, Germany. Combining software and hardware engineering, the Rybka Cluster features exclusive Rybka versions not available to the public running on customized hardware built with the specific goal of providing top Rybka performance at an affordable price."

"A computer cluster  is a collection of individual computers which act together as a single bigger computer. The challenge is to split the work in such a way that the relatively slow communication between the individual computers is tolerable. When this is accomplished, clustering provides a flexible and relatively inexpensive way to create and maintain a high-performance supercomputer."

May I ask (if it is not a secret) how was the problem of relatively slow communication between the individual computers resolved? I guess that parallel SMP search algorithm implemented in Crafty would not work? I wonder if it is possible to somehow efficiently share memory between processes running on different computers?

I was thinking to suggest to the organizers of the London Chess Classic Chess Tournament to rent say Rybka Cluster 100 (for say two days) and that the winner of the tournament plays (say) a (two game) mini match against the Rybka Cluster. If all the parties would be interested (and the funding secured) that would be a real treat for the spectators I would think.

Kind regards,
Parent - By Quapsel (***) Date 2011-12-28 10:01 Edited 2011-12-28 10:43
If Rybka would be the strongest engine today, than some people might be willing to rent newest-Clusterrybka on many(!) cores to get the very, very best computerchess available today.
But with a Rybka staying 30 or 40 ELO behind the strongest freeware, wallets will remain closed.

Vas, if the cluster-rybka is able to do specific astounding things, you should demonstrate it offensively.
And this would be a very nice promotion for UCI-Rybka-5 too.
And it would make the scene curious!
But if there is really nothing to tell us or to show us, I'm afraid that you have lost motivation in Rybka-development. :-(
Am I too anxious?

- By SchachProfi (****) Date 2010-12-30 19:51

> When a customer is logged in, the cluster presents itself on his client computer as a
> standard (UCI) chess engine, which can be installed and used in any standard chess GUI.

Uh, i guess someone in this forum applied an EU-wide patent for exactly this, and other parts covering cluster-chess-software, just a few weeks ago... :twisted:
- - By Fulcrum2000 (****) [nl] Date 2010-12-30 20:07
BTW Today the December version of the CSVN magazine was released and it features an interview with Lukas, a big part (of the not that big interview) is about the cluster. Wonder if it's a coincidence this post and the magazine are released simultaneous.
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2010-12-30 20:12
of course it's just a coincidence ;)

No, seriously, it is really coincidence :)
- - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-12-30 21:17
Vas, I was wondering about something. I'm sure you have done a lot of planning before making a jump like this. I've talk to GM-class players(friends of my). It seem you maybe offering this to the elite players. I can maybe see how this could help them in some ways. I'm sure there are other sources for you that we wouldn't know about. It's a major project and I hope it can work for you.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2010-12-30 21:36
some correspondence chess players may also want to rent it. and appearing with the cluster in the engine room may also be some fun ;)
Parent - - By David Evans (***) [gb] Date 2010-12-30 21:48
u have 238 Euro (incl. VAT) per day go ahead hehe

anything less than 12 cores u can do from home cpus and as the core increase and the prices fall 24 and 32 way systems are just round the corner...
Parent - - By Geomusic (****) Date 2010-12-31 06:11
a 32-way sure let me open my pocket book.
Parent - By suj (***) Date 2011-01-13 22:20
yes my iphone is enough:)
Parent - - By Androcles (**) [fr] Date 2010-12-30 22:59
Welcome to the first PLOUTOCRATIC (World) Chess Championship :twisted:
Parent - - By Geomusic (****) Date 2010-12-31 06:22
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2010-12-31 15:05
Those who have the money rule.
Parent - By Geomusic (****) Date 2010-12-31 16:41 Edited 2010-12-31 16:48
Hutz tries to measure himself with an angstrom meter but gets mugged by some Mitochondria. They steal the last 2 cents out of his pocket are satisfied and leave. Though he had the last laugh today when he put on his ATP synthase lined jacket. Burrr, its cold outside!
Parent - By Neptune (***) [us] Date 2011-06-03 02:56
He that is of the opinion money will do everything may well be suspected of doing everything for money
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Silver) [us] Date 2011-01-14 00:29
Well, what do you want?  A democracy?  A meritocracy?  An aristocracy?  A kleptocracy?
Parent - By Labyrinth (****) [us] Date 2011-01-14 02:01
I'd be willing to give a meritocracy a try.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2010-12-30 23:11
if i purchase time on this,i will know senility has set in.i hope then someone will put me in care and take over my affairs.
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-12-30 23:18
Well I don't know what your family/friends connections are. But you can bet there are some of us you could trust. We would just send Tony over to knock some sense into you :lol:.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2010-12-30 23:20
Tony would certainly do that.:smile:
Parent - - By yanquis1972 (****) [us] Date 2010-12-31 01:14

-1 for the senility, +2 for the drugs. this is ridiculous.
Parent - By Cubeman (**) [nz] Date 2010-12-31 02:48
I support Vas in his endeavours, He has to try something new and he will find out if it works.It will boil down to supply and demand that will work out the price.I have given up on using the best desk-top chess engines years ago so have stayed out of the arms race.Computer chess is so far advanced now that I can't really keep up with all the information that there is.So what if the line my opponent plays is proven to lose, all I know is that it takes a 3200 elo entity to show it.
Parent - By Geomusic (****) Date 2010-12-31 05:21
The price point wasn't geared toward you anyway yanquis. It was never intended to be. Vas has us in mind but it won't be toward the end of 2011 as he mentioned in his intro.
Parent - By Geomusic (****) Date 2010-12-31 06:13
Parent - - By suj (***) Date 2011-01-08 21:24
take over your affairs=take your skulltrail and sr2:@Paul
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2011-01-08 21:40
not likely to happen,i doubt you also will be renting cloud.:smile:
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