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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Further ideas for handicap match
- - By staylor (***) Date 2007-04-04 02:09
I cannot help thinking, although I didn't have the time to discuss it recently, that it would be quite tough even vs a human gm, if Rybka were handicapped even by one knight.
I personally think that (for various reasons), it would be a worthy success if even a top GM would win such a match.
At any rate, I CERTAINLY don't agree with those who say it is absolutely no challenge at all. I'd like to dare any GM to try it, and a sponser to sponser it.
How can one compare an extra night at beginning of game, with an extra night in late middlegame? And other reasons too, why it is a challenge.
If you think that I don't sound very proffessional and I'm making a GM look like a patzer who doesn't know basics, well, obviously the easiest answer I would say is to try it out on stage, with a gm. And that IS probably the best idea, but probably not enough people would see the point in it, so it is not easy to get it done.
Parent - - By staylor (***) Date 2007-04-04 02:17
On the one hand, the GM will try to win every game, to make sure he's not a patzer. On the other hand, he might play a bit too boldly. The end result, I think, it will just not work (for the gm).
Parent - - By lkaufman (*****) Date 2007-04-04 03:36
     There have been enough blitz games at knight odds between Rybka and titled and highly rated players rated (including myself) for me to summarize the situation as follows, if Rybka is running on a Quad: In fast blitz (3' 0 incr) it should be a fair match for a weak GM or strong IM. In normal blitz (5'0 or 4'1) it should be a fair match for an average IM. In slow blitz (5'3" or 6'2") it should be a fair match for a fairly strong FM or a weak IM. At somewhere around 5'5" it is probably a fair match for an average FM.
     So clearly, unless you are talking about bullet chess, there is not much point in talking about giving knight odds to grandmasters at the present time. A knight is quite a large handicap, much more than three times an average pawn handicap. But I think we are not so far away from the time when the Exchange (White removes queen's rook, Black removes queen's knight) might be a viable handicap against a grandmaster in a serious time-limit game.
Parent - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2007-04-04 06:06
I am even not sure if at slow time control rybka can perform better than top GM's with knight handicap.

The problem with computers is that they play the move that is objectively the best move and they do not consider the option that the opponent is not going to see something.

I believe that rybka will prefer to be queen down with no practical chances and not to allow the opponent some mate combination that the opponent may miss.

I think that Fide should allow every player including computers to play for fide rating without knight b1 or even with a bigger handicap.

Uri
Parent - - By insipid (**) Date 2007-04-04 15:06
I can beat Rybka with a knight handicap and I'm just a USCF expert.  Not every time, and a match would be interesting,.. I'd even put myself as the underdog if Rybka was white in every game and we had equal time on the clocks.  (and of course the quicker the time control the less shot I would have)  Nonetheless, the point is that I'm sure many, if not most, of the readers on this forum are capable of keeping with Rybka down a knight, and such a match for a GM would truly be a laugher.

A knight is just a huge handicap, I suspect a GM would simply win every game.
Parent - - By billyraybar (***) Date 2007-04-04 18:02
I like the idea of some sort of opening book handicap.  Rybka can only use opening book for five moves or something like this maybe?
Parent - By lkaufman (*****) Date 2007-04-04 21:31
     The problem with this is simply that Rybka could easily open every game with a3 or ...a6, use no opening book at all, and probably win a match against even Anand or Kramnik. This would be roughly a hundred Elo handicap in my opinion, while Rybka enjoys roughly a two hundred Elo edge over them. I admit it would be quite interesting and worth a try against one of them, but not against any GM we are actually likely to get for a match with the level of funding we have.
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2007-04-05 00:18
This will be a desaster. But not for the engine! This is no handicap but an advantage for the engine. Even CB played with a short opening book (10-15 moves) in the match against Kramnik. But a 5-move-opening book may be even better. Nothing to look for Kramnik but enough, that he he can´t prepare all the variations. And a Top-GM will be rather curious, when at move 12 maybe he can´t recognize which type of position he have on the board.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Further ideas for handicap match

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