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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Looking for new hardware for when R3 finally appears!
- - By sarciness (***) Date 2008-07-19 21:57
I'm looking for a decent Intel Quad Core, I think. Also, a decent Nvidia or ATI 512Mb+ graphics card is a must.

I want it for gaming, but particularly for chess analysis, so a good processor is the most important thing, followed by graphics card. HD space not hugely important (1/4-1/2Tb plenty), but a fast HDD is a definite plus. I rekon I need 3-4Gb memory, how does that sound?

I'm in the UK. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Cheers,

Sarc
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2008-07-19 23:21
Sounds good, Q6600 G0 processor is the best bang for your buck right now.  Go for 4GB RAM. I get all my kit from http://www.scan.co.uk

Excellent prices and service - and I'm not affiliated with them either, just a customer.
Parent - - By sarciness (***) Date 2008-07-25 21:09 Edited 2008-07-25 21:12
How does this sound?

Intel Quad Q6600 processor
ASUS P5N-D Motherboard
4GB Crucial DDR2 800MHz RAM
GeForce 9600GT 512MB
500GB Serial ATA HD
DVD RW
Antec Sonata III Black Mirror Case
650W Power Supply
Basic Keyboard, basic mouse, 6-plug surve protector.

Total £572 delivered.
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2008-07-25 21:14
Not bad - but I wouldn't take a mainboard with Nvidia chipset but one with Intel chipset like ASUS P5K Pro.
Parent - - By sarciness (***) Date 2008-07-25 21:25
OK, how about replacing motherboard with ASUS Rampage Formula? I don't know much about mainboards.
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2008-07-25 21:28
BTW I have two ASUS Maximus formula mainboards.  I modded the BIOS on one of them to be a "Rampage Formula" (there is an "unoffical" mod available).  I haven't noticed any difference in overclockability.  The only difference I noticed was that the logo at boot up changed to say "Rampage Formula" ;)
Parent - - By sarciness (***) Date 2008-07-25 21:33
Thanks. Erm, is it worth the extra £50 for a Rampage Formula over a P5Q Deluxe with the other components I've listed?
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2008-07-25 21:41
Personally I don't think so.  Best overclocking I got was with a P5K-SE.  It doesn't have the ICH9R fake raid of the Maximus Formula or Rampage (which is apparently not much use anyway).  Less circuitry = less heat, and heat is the biggest enemy.
Parent - - By sarciness (***) Date 2008-07-25 21:52
Cheers. Is it hard to build a PC yourself out of components? I think I would have made a reasonable choice myself, but you guys really sound like you know your stuff. I rekon with your help I can make an awesome PC for my money.
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2008-07-25 22:03 Edited 2008-07-25 22:07

> Is it hard to build a PC yourself out of components?


Have a look here:

http://64.68.157.89/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15997&highlight=

You only need a very thin layer of thermal paste though, just put a thin line on the middle of the top of your CPU and let your heat sink spread it.  See here

http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appinstruct/as5/ins_as5_intel_quad_wcap.pdf
Parent - By sarciness (***) Date 2008-07-25 22:33
Looks do-able, kinda like following a long recipie.

I think I should probably wait a month (by which time I will have moved back to the SW for uni, and the hardware I'm looking at may be outdated for the price) to build it so I don't need to transport it down to Exeter. But I want it now!
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2008-07-25 21:33
That's much more expensive, but good. You only need it if you want to use high end crossfire. I'd prefer ASUS P5Q Deluxe, it's not as expensive but very good for overclocking. Btw. the price of that computer is a bit too high.
Parent - By sarciness (***) Date 2008-07-25 21:44
OK, you've been very helpful!

It's too much? Arg. I can't find anything cheaper. Maybe I should build this thing myself? I'm just not that confident at doing (pretty much anything) with my hands!
Parent - By Nick (*****) Date 2008-07-25 21:17
I would probably make 4 changes:

(1) a 750gb disk though (they are so cheap) to replace the 500gb

(2) a better-than-stock cooler, something like a Thermalright Ultra-120

(3) and a 120mm fan for the cooler

(4) Perhaps most importantly is to get a better case.  You can lower temps a lot by getting something like a Coolermaster Praetorian, it makes a big difference to overall stability to have good air flow within the case.

Then you should be able to hit 3.4ghz 24/7 on air.
Parent - By Nick (*****) Date 2008-07-25 21:23
By the way, I personally ask Kullberg and M ANSARI for hardware advice so listen to them first.
Parent - - By pokerpawn (***) Date 2008-07-25 21:24
yes the other motherboard will also allow you to use faster DDR2 Ram or DDR3 ram
Parent - By garyf919 (**) Date 2008-07-26 04:32
I would consider waiting till the fall, when Intel releases the Nahalem platform. It should blow
away anything that is being mentioned here. But it probably won't be cheap either :)
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2008-08-10 14:05
thats where i bought nearly all my stuff from,superb service and as you say good pricing.
Parent - - By sarciness (***) Date 2008-08-08 22:13
How about liquid cooling? How much is it, and is it easy to install? I'd prefer this becasue of the noise reduction, so I can leave my PC on overnight when I go to sleep.
Parent - - By hal9000 (**) Date 2008-08-09 00:29 Edited 2008-08-09 00:33
I used liquid cooling on my old quad computer. There are basically two alternatives:

1) Purchase a kit with all the necessary parts included
2) Custom build a liquid cooling setup by purchasing separate parts

Alternative 2 tends to yield the best cooling results, since you can pick the best parts from different manufacturers. However, this approach also tend to cost more and it takes a bit of extra effort to find the best components for your system and budget. Incorrect installation can cause (fatal) problems (such as leakage), so it's important that the installation is done in a careful and proper manner.

Alternative 1 also tends to be easier to setup and install, because these kits are often aimed at newcomers and 'first-timers' (who aren't familiar with liquid cooling). Some of these kits perform very well, and provide more than decent cooling for most setups. Kits usually cost from $100 and up (the high-end kits can cost up to 3-4 times as much), depending on their cooling efficiency.

EDIT: You asked if it was 'easy' to install: I'd say that if you're familiar with assembling/building PCs yourself from the ground up, you should have little or no problem installing a liquid cooling system as long as you keep certain precautions in mind.
Parent - - By sarciness (***) Date 2008-08-09 20:10
Thanks alot. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with building PCs from the ground up, though. I just want to have my cake and eat it!
Parent - By likesforests (**) Date 2008-08-09 20:31
My PC cost 40% of what a pre-assembled one with the same specs would. It's also performs better for my applications, is easier to maintain, and is easier to upgrade because I have the full specs on all the parts installed. On the minus side, it took quite some time to secure parts that worked optimally together at the lowest possible price and troubleshoot post-build abnormalities.

Make sure you watch the static electricity and esd (electrostatic discharge). You don't want to fry your parts.  :)
Parent - By hal9000 (**) Date 2008-08-09 22:43 Edited 2008-08-09 22:55
I understand. Then I wouldn't recommend a liquid cooling system. Like Ansari mentioned below, you can get high-performance air cooling for a relatively low price.

Ansari recommended the Thermaltake Big Typhoon VX, but tests indicate that the Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme is even more effective. The noise level is also very good. The price is about $50-60 (a fan must be purchased separately).

If you don't intend to overclock you'll do fine with a lower-end HSF (strictly speaking), although you'll still benefit from a high-end HSF since they tend to cool better at lower fan speeds (less noise).

Here's a link to a review of Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme (they've tested it with a Scythe S-Flex fan):

> Top air-cooler performance solidly belongs to the Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme (coupled with an S-Flex SFF21F fan) at 3.94GHz. Right behind and tied at 3.90 GHz are the Tuniq Tower 120, the regular Thermalright Ultra-120, the Scythe Ninja B Plus with SilenX fan, the OCZ Vindicator with SilenX, and the Scythe Infinity with dual push-pull Scythe fans. All of these coolers outperform the Thermaltake Big Typhoon VX and every other down-facing cooler in overclocking and cooling efficiency on a standard Core 2 Duo test bed. Most are also quieter than the Big Typhoon VX.


Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme Review at AnandTech

EDIT: Here's the official product page with more technical data as well as links to several tests (make sure that the cooler is compatible with your mobo; it's rather big and heavy):

Official page for Ultra-120 eXtreme
Parent - - By M ANSARI (*****) Date 2008-08-09 20:55
If you are new at this ... I do not recommend liquid cooling ... you can get very good air cooling that gets very close to the performance of liquid cooling.  Don't get me wrong I have 3 machines running liquid, but recently I tried one of the high performance air cooling units and I was very impressed.  They perform almost as good as water cooling.  Obviously air cooling is a lot easier to maintain with a lot less danger of damage to your system due to water leaks (yes they do happen to the best of us).  The best performing air cooling HSF is IMHO the Thermaltake Big Typhoon VX ... or better known as Thermaltake CL-P0310 ... I would say it performs just as good as a water cooling setup when set to highest performance.  It has an adjustable fan which when you are not planning any heavy duty chess, you can put it at low and you can hardly hear anything.  Ofcourse you have to also use some good thermal grease such as Arctic Silver 5 and your case should have excellent air flow going through your box.  The Tuniq Tower is also supposed to be very good but I personally have never tried it.

You can find both here

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=40000574&Description=cpu+cooling&name=CPU+Fans+%26+Heatsinks
Parent - - By ernest (****) Date 2008-08-10 13:54
> Thermaltake CL-P0310

Here in Paris, several friends have Noctua

I am impressed by the resulting efficiency and silence!
Parent - - By hal9000 (**) Date 2008-08-10 17:55
I considered buying Noctuas myself for my octocore setup, but a friend of mine said that they didn't fit too well with my mobo.

AnandTech has written a review of the Noctua NH-U12P, and it combines excellent cooling capabilities at stock speeds with very low noise, albeit at a relatively high price:

> For those who don't care about overclocking, the Noctua NH-U12P is still a great choice. It cools as well as the best so far with one fan - at idle and under load at stock speeds. Add a second fan and the stock temperatures are all new records. We haven't tested a cooler that does a better job of cooling at stock speeds. However, the Noctua cooler with two fans at $90 is not cheap, and the Alpine coolers we recently tested do almost as well at about 1/6 the price. For most who won't overclock the Alpines are fine, but if you want the best stock air-cooling you can buy the Noctua NH-U12P with an extra NF-P12 fan is the ultimate.


> These test results for the Noctua are truly impressive, but they do not dethrone the Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme - at least not yet. The superb component here is the Noctua NF-P12 fan, which is a brilliant piece of engineering. We doubt our Thermalright or any air-cooler will top the 3.94GHz that seems to be the limit of our test bed Core 2 Duo. However, we suspect the Thermalright combined with the NF-P12 could match or even exceed the results with the Noctua heatsink. ...


Noctua review at AnandTech
Parent - By blackbeard (*) Date 2008-08-10 18:10
the 2 best guys for custom built sysstems in "ole blighty" are

<www.overclockers.co.uk> and <www.scan.co.uk>
Parent - By M ANSARI (*****) Date 2008-08-10 21:24
Yes there are several other coolers that perform extremely well but I have not tried them personally.  I have my Octa with a mild overclock (2.66Ghz to 3.2Ghz) using simple Blu Orbs ... which are not even close to the performance of some of the other coolers mentioned.  They do a great job though and I have run this Octa for almost 3 weeks straight now 24/7 without a single crash. At the moment I have this Octa running a 2 hour a side long time control match between R3 and R3 Human ... so far Human is winning 1.5 to .5.  I plan to keep this tourney running for 20 games or so ... maybe eventually I will even let it run 100 games.  I did order 2 Thermaltake Typhoons for my other Skulltrail as I plan to take it off Vapor.  I am hoping to get an easy 4Ghz on that system.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Looking for new hardware for when R3 finally appears!

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