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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Quick support comment from HEM
- - By Highendman (****) Date 2011-03-13 22:17
Having just seen all the 'hoopla' surrounding Rybka's origin (Fruit, Crafty) here's my quick view...

To me it seems that sore losers that couldn't beat Vas and team at the computer-chess board, have now turned to a different (dark) alley to try a different approach.

Personally I couldn't care less how he managed to develop the strongest chess playing entity in the world.
He did, I admire him and his work for that. I hope he doesn't give a flying F*** to all the dirt being thrown at him at the moment, and has the energy to keep working on his chess engine and not let his rival's current tactic confuse his game plan.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-03-13 22:22
i am another who could not care less,Rybka along with other engines have served me well in last 3 years.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2011-03-14 02:52
I still feel it's a double standard. Someone created an engine stronger than Rybka, derived from Rybka, and we can't talk about it? Why? If it happens that Vas did the same with Fruit?
Parent - - By oudheusa (*****) Date 2011-03-14 12:37
I agree. Vas' his biggest mistake was starting all the hoopla about the clones, while not being of completely clean conscience himself.
Ah the beauty of human nature, what a dull world it would be without it :lol:
Parent - - By Labyrinth (*****) Date 2011-03-14 12:43
I Agree.

I can't help but wonder how things would have gone if Vas had never said anything about.. er I forget if we can mention that engine. The one that started with an 's' anyways.
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2011-03-14 21:04
I agree partially with oudheusa on this; however, perhaps down the line sooner or later it would have come to this point.

I regret my own part in taking a heady position and casting aspersions on those who questioned Vas on this – of course, this points to my own lack of insight and short comings.  I am more disgusted with myself than I could be with Vas.

I don’t see a clear cut answer to any of this-

Perhaps this should be an indication rather of a need to consider a  rewrite of the ICGA rules. Computer chess has been in absolute dynamic transition in the past years. In view of Vas' legacy -in that he brought to the sport a prominence and excitement it lacked hither to fore, it would be very wrong to focus only on technicalities that might be of importance only to a small group of individuals. It really is time to think outside the box.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-03-14 22:23
any reason for name change Robert.
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2011-03-14 22:43
Spirit of the times.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-03-14 22:47
:smile:maybe a change of style.
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2011-03-15 00:56
A change in perception.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2011-03-14 23:44 Edited 2011-03-16 02:14
Whoa, that's sidserious? For the first time in a long time I was reading his posts with interest, name changing does work.
Parent - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2011-03-15 19:52
:grin:
Parent - By Ricky (***) Date 2011-03-15 14:57
+1
Parent - - By Ray (****) Date 2011-03-13 22:40

> To me it seems that sore losers that couldn't beat Vas and team at the computer-chess board, have now turned to a different (dark) alley to try a different approach.


Agreed. It reflects badly on all of them.
Parent - - By isilverman (***) Date 2011-03-13 23:09
Speaking as someone who has no dog in this race, and having scanned lots of messages, here is what I think, for those of you who have been eagerly awaiting my uninformed thoughts:

1) I have been reading messages about fruit and hotels and Rybka for years. I find it hard to believe that it was just now that all of a sudden lots of proof of stealing has emerged. I suspect other motives.

2) On  the other hand, I find the chronology of Rise of the Fish Part 1 to be a little suspicious. Coincidences happen, yes. Sometimes.

3) I rather doubt that today's fish has all that much in common with the fish from the first movie, let alone from the fruit or the hotel of the first movie.

4) I find the intended punishment, not all that well articulated, but one can probably guess at it, a little extreme. If the fish is staying out of the water, above all other fish, for year after year, I rather doubt it's because of an initial or even initial but repeated event from half a decade ago. I would say that it is a little late to fry a fish because of what may have happened half a decade ago. Let the fish swim, and see if it stays above all other fish. If it does, it's probably Vas' good programming skills. If it doesn't, well...
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-03-13 23:19
thats life.:grin:
Parent - By ppipper (*****) Date 2011-03-13 23:36
totally agree
Parent - By AWRIST (****) Date 2011-03-14 00:10
HEM, I hope this too. Thanks for the quick message.
Parent - - By Loboestepario (****) Date 2011-03-14 02:20
EE Cummings wrote something like the Earth responds to criticism with the Spring.
Mr. Rajlich may reply by giving us rybka 5 and cheaper access to the cluster.
Parent - By sarciness (***) Date 2011-03-14 10:53
We can but dream!
Parent - - By oudheusa (*****) Date 2011-03-14 15:34

> Personally I couldn't care less how he managed to develop the strongest chess playing entity in the world.


Based on this, the current #1 engine which childishly cannot be named here, should also be fully acknowledged.
The measuring with two measures is still going on by the Rybka team.
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2011-03-14 15:36
FWIW, in the moderator forum, my view to the fellow moderators was indeed that it should be discussed openly (more or less e.g. in a specific subforum) here.
However it's a question that has many facets and I respect this forum owners and active moderators decision to the contrary.
Parent - By oudheusa (*****) Date 2011-03-14 16:22
Thank you for sharing that, but I am speaking not so much about discussing it openly but about acknowledging its legal right of existence. As Rybka, it was developed 'into the strongest chess playing entity in the world', no matter what the underlying source. It is an original work build on the collective ideas of its predecessors, as is with all engines.
Parent - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2011-03-14 18:01
If I was Vas I would work out R5 within a couple of weeks, and the one that would wipe the floor with anything else seen so far with around 220 ELO more over R4, and all the talk would just go away or become uninteresting. That would later become known as "overkill".
Parent - - By Razor (****) Date 2011-03-14 18:45
Totally agree - so many recognised 'great people' have stood on the shoulders of other 'great people' - as Mr Houdart claims, his product would not be where it is if it wasn't for others.
Parent - - By David Evans (****) Date 2011-03-14 19:38
So you are saying robert Houdart says thanks to the work of others my engine is the strength it is today.

So should vas say thanks to fruit rybka is as strong as it is today you cannot have it both ways.

I care not who did what and who got ides from who but i have the two faced of it all.

If vas got ideas from fuit maybe he should thanks the makers of fruit in the same way robert did about other engines.

if rybka is 100% vas idea then fine.....
Parent - By Razor (****) Date 2011-03-14 20:02
Sorry, I don't quite get the point you are making - are you just saying Vas needs to recognise the efforts of those who wrote software that he took to another level through his own efforts?  If you are then yes of course I agree.
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2011-03-14 20:08
Vas acknowledged about five years ago that he carefully studied Fruit and "took many things from it".
Parent - - By Sciolto (***) Date 2011-03-14 21:19
The sound of denial when incriminating evidence is about to be presented ... it not only smells :eek:
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2011-03-19 15:44
Love the sound of that, "incriminating evidence".  Yes, like you I believe Vas should be led into court in an orange jump-suit, manacled hand and foot, for his heinous crimes against humanity.  /sarc
Parent - - By Loboestepario (****) Date 2011-03-19 16:20
Resorting to drama when faced with reality. That's very "Hollywood" of you.
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2011-03-19 16:34
That's why they call him Hollywood Hernandez!
Parent - By bob (Gold) Date 2011-03-19 16:38
Nothing wrong with being a devoted fan.  But when you decide that copyright laws should be ignored, the GPL should be ignored, and that tournament rules should be ignored, the landscape certainly changes.  Most here continually denigrate  ip*/robo*/houdini/fire, as "knockoffs".  How do you intend to "have it both ways"?  It is ok for Rybka to contain major parts of other programs, but it is not OK for other programs to contain most of Rybka???

When you pick a side in this discussion, a rational person would at least pick a side where there are no obvious contradictions one has to try to weasel out of...

I pick the side "follow the law and follow the rules."  I have no contradictions to deal with, then.

This current nonsense would drastically alter even simple sporting events.  One team is allowed to play out of bounds while the other is not.  A significant advantage in basketball, football, soccer, baseball, etc...
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Quick support comment from HEM

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