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- - By M ANSARI (*****) Date 2010-12-10 11:45 Edited 2010-12-10 11:57
8/5k2/1p2q1p1/3pQpP1/1P3P1P/6K1/5P2/8 w - - 0 54


Many moves look strong but actually draw.  Few engines get h5! which wins on the spot.  There is a possibility that Qc7+ is winning also but not so sure.

Analysis by Rybka 4.1 Beta 2:

54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 d4 56.Ke2 Kd6 57.Kd3 Kd5 58.b5 Kc5 59.h5
  +-  (1.86 !)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  1kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 d4 56.Ke2 Kd6 57.Kd3 Kd5 58.b5 Ke6 59.Kxd4 Kd6 60.Kc4 Ke6
  +-  (2.01 !)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  1kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd6 56.Ke3 Ke6 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.b5 Ke6 59.f3
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  1kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Ke7 56.Ke3 Ke6 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.b5 Ke6 59.f3
  +-  (2.05 !)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  1kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Ke7 56.Ke3 Kf7 57.Kd4 Ke6 58.b5 Kd6 59.f3
  +-  (2.05)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  1kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Ke6 58.b5 Kd6 59.f3 Ke6
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 8   00:00:00  2kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.Kc3 Ke6 59.Kd3 Ke7 60.b5 Kd6 61.Kd4 Ke6 62.f3 Kd6
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  2kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.Kc3 Ke6 59.Kd3 Ke7 60.b5 Kd6 61.Kd4 Ke6 62.f3 Kd6
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  2kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.Kc3 Ke6 59.Kd3 Ke7 60.b5 Kd6 61.Kd4 Ke6 62.f3 Kd6
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  2kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.Kc3 Ke6 59.Kd3 Ke7 60.Ke2 Kd6 61.Ke3 Ke7 62.Kd4 Kd6 63.Kc3 Ke6 64.Kd3 Ke7 65.Ke2 Kd6 66.Ke3 Ke7 67.Kd4 Kd6 68.Kc3 Ke6 69.Kd3
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 12   00:00:00  4kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.Kc3 Ke6 59.Kd3 Ke7 60.Ke2 Kd6 61.Ke3 Ke7 62.Kd4 Kd6 63.Kc3 Ke6 64.Kd3 Ke7 65.Ke2 Kd6 66.Ke3 Ke7 67.Kd4 Kd6 68.Kc3 Ke6 69.Kd3
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 13   00:00:00  7kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.Kc3 Ke6 59.Kd3 Ke7 60.Ke2 Kd6 61.Ke3 Ke7 62.Kd4 Kd6 63.Kc3 Ke6 64.Kd3 Ke7 65.Ke2 Kd6 66.Ke3 Ke7 67.Kd4 Kd6 68.Kc3 Ke6 69.Kd3
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 14   00:00:00  10kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.Kc3 Ke6 59.Kd3 Ke7 60.Ke2 Kd6 61.Ke3 Ke7 62.Kd4 Kd6 63.Kc3 Ke6 64.Kd3 Ke7 65.Ke2 Kd6 66.Ke3 Ke7 67.Kd4 Kd6 68.Kc3 Ke6 69.Kd3
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  16kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.Kc3 Ke6 59.Kd3 Ke7 60.Ke2 Kd6 61.Ke3 Ke7 62.Kd4 Kd6 63.Kc3 Ke6 64.Kd3 Ke7 65.Ke2 Kd6 66.Ke3 Ke7 67.Kd4 Kd6 68.Kc3 Ke6 69.Kd3
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 16   00:00:00  21kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.Kc3 Ke6 59.Kd3 Ke7 60.Ke2 Kd6 61.Ke3 Ke7 62.Kd4 Kd6 63.Kc3 Ke6 64.Kd3 Ke7 65.Ke2 Kd6 66.Ke3 Ke7 67.Kd4 Kd6 68.Kc3 Ke6 69.Kd3
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 17   00:00:00  35kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.Kc3 Ke6 59.Kd3 Ke7 60.Ke2 Kd6 61.Ke3 Ke7 62.Kd4 Kd6 63.Kc3 Ke6 64.Kd3 Ke7 65.Ke2 Kd6 66.Ke3 Ke7 67.Kd4 Kd6 68.Kc3 Ke6 69.Kd3
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 18   00:00:00  63kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.Kc3 Ke6 59.Kd3 Ke7 60.Ke2 Kd6 61.Ke3 Ke7 62.Kd4 Kd6 63.Kc3 Ke6 64.Kd3 Ke7 65.Ke2 Kd6 66.Ke3 Ke7 67.Kd4 Kd6 68.Kc3 Ke6 69.Kd3
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 19   00:00:00  105kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.Kc3 Ke6 59.Kd3 Ke7 60.Ke2 Kd6 61.Ke3 Ke7 62.Kd4 Kd6 63.Kc3 Ke6 64.Kd3 Ke7 65.Ke2 Kd6 66.Ke3 Ke7 67.Kd4 Kd6 68.Kc3 Ke6 69.Kd3
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 20   00:00:00  187kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.Kc3 Ke6 59.Kd3 Ke7 60.Ke2 Kd6 61.Ke3 Ke7 62.Kd4 Kd6 63.Kc3 Ke6 64.Kd3 Ke7 65.Ke2 Kd6 66.Ke3 Ke7 67.Kd4 Kd6 68.Kc3 Ke6 69.Kd3
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 21   00:00:01  825kN
54.Qxe6+ Kxe6 55.Kf3 Kd7 56.Ke3 Ke7 57.Kd4 Kd6 58.Kc3 Ke6 59.Kd3 Ke7 60.Ke3 Ke6 61.Kd4 Kd6 62.Kc3 Ke6 63.Kd3 Ke7 64.Ke3 Ke6 65.Kd4 Kd6 66.Kc3 Ke6 67.Kd3 Ke7 68.Ke3 Ke6 69.Kd4
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 22   00:00:04  2361kN, tb=19
54.Qc7+ Ke8 55.Qg7 Kd8 56.Qd4 Ke7 57.h5 gxh5 58.b5 Qe4 59.Qf6+ Kd7 60.Qc6+ Ke7 61.Qc7+ Kf8 62.Qh7 d4 63.g6 h4+ 64.Qxh4[] Qd3+ 65.f3 Qc4 66.Qh8+ Ke7 67.g7
  +-  (2.04)   Depth: 22   00:00:21  11399kN, tb=26
54.h5 gxh5[] 55.Qc7+ Kg8 56.Kh4
  +-  (2.05 !)   Depth: 22   00:00:28  15989kN, tb=40
54.h5 gxh5[] 55.Qc7+ Kg8 56.Kh4
  +-  (2.20 !)   Depth: 22   00:00:31  17191kN, tb=43
54.h5 gxh5[] 55.Qc7+ Kg8 56.Kh4 Qe2 57.Qc8+ Kg7 58.Qd7+ Kg6 59.Qc6+[] Kg7 60.Qf6+[] Kg8 61.Qg6+ Kh8 62.Qxf5[] d4 63.g6[] Qe7+ 64.Kxh5[] Kg7 65.f3 Qe8 66.Qc2[] Kf6 67.f5[] Qd7 68.Kg4
  +-  (2.60 !)   Depth: 22   00:00:56  29310kN, tb=161
54.h5 gxh5 55.Qc7+ Kg8 56.Kh4 d4 57.Qd8+[] Kh7 58.Qxd4 Qc6 59.Qd1 b5 60.Qxh5+ Kg7 61.Kg3 Qc3+ 62.Qf3 Qc1 63.Kg2 Qc7 64.Qe3 Qd7 65.Kg3 Kf7 66.Qb3+ Kg7 67.Qc3+ Kg8 68.Qe5 Kh7 69.Kh4
  +-  (3.18)   Depth: 22   00:02:03  63961kN, tb=850
54.h5 gxh5 55.Qc7+ Kg8 56.Kh4[] d4 57.Qd8+[] Kh7 58.Qxd4 Qc6 59.Qd1[] b5 60.Qxh5+ Kg7 61.Kg3 Qc3+ 62.Qf3 Qc1 63.Kg2 Qc7 64.Qe3 Qd7 65.Kg3 Kf7 66.Qb3+ Kg7 67.Qc3+ Kg8 68.Qe5 Kf7 69.Kh4
  +-  (3.30 !)   Depth: 23   00:02:46  85615kN, tb=1149
54.h5 gxh5 55.Qc7+ Kg8 56.Kh4[] d4 57.Qd8+[] Kh7 58.Qxd4 Qc6 59.Qd1[] b5 60.Qxh5+ Kg7 61.Kg3 Qc3+ 62.Qf3 Qc1 63.Kg2 Qc7 64.Qe3 Qd7 65.Kg3 Kf7 66.Qb3+ Kg7 67.Qc3+ Kg8 68.Qe5 Kf7 69.Kh4
  +-  (3.45 !)   Depth: 23   00:04:06  125mN, tb=1447
54.h5 gxh5 55.Qc7+ Kg8 56.Kh4[] d4 57.Qd8+[] Kh7 58.Qxd4[] Qc6 59.Qd1[] b5 60.Qxh5+[] Kg7 61.Kg3[] Qc3+ 62.Qf3 Qc1 63.Kg2 Qc7 64.Qe3 Qd7 65.Kg3 Kf7 66.Qb3+ Kg7 67.Qc3+ Kg8 68.Qe5 Kf7 69.Kh4
  +-  (3.85 !)   Depth: 23   00:06:34  203mN, tb=2631

(, Microsoft 10.12.2010)
Parent - - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2010-12-10 11:58
Analysis by Rybka 4.1 beta2?  Lucky you Maijd :smile:

How well or otherwise does it do against Rybka 4?
Parent - - By M ANSARI (*****) Date 2010-12-10 12:03
I think it is almost identical to Rybka 4 chesswise so far.  There are some new pretty nice parameter options that will be of great interest to people who like to do analysis with their engines and thus get a better tuned static evaluation without worrying about a drop in ELO game play.  I think the major bug fixes to R4 will come starting with Beta 3.
Parent - - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2010-12-10 12:33
Maijd, get Vas to fix the time management. Rybka has always been a blitz master and I don't remember her losing on time at any stage until Rybka 4 showed up :sad:
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2010-12-10 12:52
Rybka 4 doesn't lose on time unless your setup is messed up.
Parent - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2010-12-10 12:57
I use default settings. I will check with mindbreaker's settings for non-incremental times.
Parent - By M ANSARI (*****) Date 2010-12-10 15:00
Lukas, out of curiosity ... how long does the cluster take to play h5!
Parent - - By M ANSARI (*****) Date 2010-12-10 15:10
I think what you mean is ultra ultra fast time controls, and I think the solution for that is not so simple.  I may be wrong, but it seems that process based engines have slightly more lag when playing a move, maybe due to extra time needed to initialize the engine in ponder OFF games.  We maybe talking about micro seconds, but the microseconds can add up in ultra fast time controls and can cause time losses.  Since Rybka is process based I don't think that we will see a solution in that arena.  The good news is that at longer time controls (read non super ultra fast games)  and with more and more cores (the future) using processes seems to be an advantage and is the reason why Vas probably decided to stick to processes.  At the moment you can configure the parameters to avoid time losses if you are getting time losses (I think it is there by default).  I know it is a band aid fix, but really ultra fast time control sudden death games are of limited use to most people.
Parent - - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2010-12-10 18:48

> I think what you mean is ultra ultra fast time controls,


Believe it or not, Rybka (using default settings) once lost on time to Fritz 10 in 1 hour/game (no increment). I was very shocked to see that. :roll:
Parent - By M ANSARI (*****) Date 2010-12-11 04:49
Wow that is strange indeed ... but it could be due to other problems not related to the engine.  I don't think I have one lost games by Rybka on time in my thousands of test games.  Of course there could be one hiding there somewhere, but I haven't noticed that as being a problem at all ... at least not with default settings.
Parent - By Akbarfan (***) Date 2010-12-10 13:30

> I think the major bug fixes to R4 will come starting with Beta 3.


:eek:

I think the major bugs were the main reason for a bug fix.

It seems she delayed until last
Parent - - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2010-12-11 11:39

> There are some new pretty nice parameter options that will be of great interest to people who like to do analysis with their engines and thus get a better tuned static evaluation without worrying about a drop in ELO game play.


This sounds interesting, but without insight "from the above", it'll be just another parameter thing allowing people to claim various setups are better than default, which for R4 turned to be untrue in most if not all cases. In other words, of no real value for serious analysts.

> I think the major bug fixes to R4 will come starting with Beta 3.


With all do respect, if major bug fixes are still not addressed, what purpose might serve your present beta testing??? Bearing in mind also this:

> I think it is almost identical to Rybka 4 chesswise so far.

Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2010-12-11 11:48 Edited 2010-12-11 12:36
Vas reasoned that having something to test was better than not having anything.

>> I think the major bug fixes to R4 will come starting with Beta 3.


Make that Beta 4. Beta 3 has a new feature instead.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-12-11 11:59
Trying to be optimistic, my bet is on Beta 6.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2010-12-11 19:25
Too harsh. The new feature may provide a workaround for the major bug! :lol:
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2010-12-11 19:33 Edited 2010-12-11 20:17
Unfortunately, with the new feature, Rybka is now more bloated than ever:

In other news, Rybka 5 will have the full set of 6-man tablebases built into the executable. :cool:
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2010-12-11 20:17
As a guy who owns stock in many hardware companies, I am very pleased that Microsoft's requirements for memory and processor speed are exceeding the pace of Moore's Law! :lol:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-12-12 07:59
They new feature will also make users lazier as they'll need to interact less with the position to get the same results. In a zap I'm finding myself analyzing 1/4 of the positions as before (from R4.1), I'd just like to have a quantum match against the me that doesn't have the feature to see if the theoretical improvements are real :smile:
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2010-12-12 08:02
I'm finding myself analyzing 1/4 of the positions as before

You can call this new feature mini-me.
Parent - - By oudheusa (*****) Date 2010-12-12 19:32
any more insights into the beta testing?

how far are you guys in the process?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-12-13 00:21
I find incredible that people aren't asking about the new feature, so I'll answer the non existent question, with more questions:

Did you know that the PV that Rybka shows, was known by her, minutes before she shows it?

That Rybka doesn't show it because she is trying to refute it, and only after she doesn't find a refutation, it'll appear?

That when a move disappears from the PV, Rybka knows what move refuted it, along with a full line, and an exact score?

Did you know that a few seconds after Rybka shows that PV, it is already obsolete, and a better line is already known?

Rybka was withholding this information from the user, until now.
Parent - - By dragon49 (****) Date 2010-12-13 01:09
I find this hard to believe.  Are you telling me that there were times that I was using Rybka in infinite analysis, and I hit the spacebar (Fritz command) to force the best move, there were times when Rybka did not play the move that she considered best?! In instances when I forced a move, I don't remember Rybka ever having played a move that was not shown as best in the pv.

How do you know this?  Does anybody other than yourself confirm this?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-12-13 01:50 Edited 2010-12-13 01:55
The main move, the one you played, remains best, but at some point in the line, a move has changed and the score isn't accurate.

Made up example (just to illustrate):

Rybka at depth 20 shows:

2:00 0.16 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6

As best, iteration 21 starts, Rybka will not show anything until minute 4, and the user only sees that, but Rybka internally has found:

2:10 0.10 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5

That the Giuoco Piano is better than the two knights defense, and now goes to search earlier in the line for improvements, and finds:

2:20 0.20 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5

That the Spanish is better, and then.

2:30 0.16 1.e4 c5

That the Sicilian is better than that (I'm cropping the lines for clarity, Rybka would show full lines for all of this).

Now Rybka goes on a long think, making sure that that line is best, and then will show to the user at depth 21:

4:00 0.16 1.e4 c5

The user is left scratching his head not knowing what happened with e5, the user would see this:

2:00 0.16 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Bd3
4:00 0.16 1. e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nxc6 bxc6 6.Nc3 Nf6 7.Be2 Bb4 8.Qd3 O-O

Which leads to the moves after the main move to be unreliable, as they could disappear at any time. In fact, in my analysis file I'd just get 1.e4 in it and ignore the rest. Now, imagine if Rybka, optionally, showed this:

2:00 0.16 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Bd3
2:10 0.10 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.O-O O-O 6.d3 h6 7.h3 a6 8.Qe2 b5
2:20 0.20 1. e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.Nf3 Bd6 5.O-O O-O 6.Bc4 a6 7.a4 h6
2:30 0.16 1. e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nxc6 bxc6 6.Nc3 Nf6 7.Be2 Bb4 8.Qd3 O-O
4:00 0.16 1. e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nxc6 bxc6 6.Nc3 Nf6 7.Be2 Bb4 8.Qd3 O-O

The first noticeable improvement is that Rybka shows the mainline some minute and a half faster. The second is that you could get many of these moves into your analysis file, as their refutations are known at all times, you won't have loose ends, it's as if you moved to the position after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 to see what happened to Nf6, only, you don't have to move there at all.

So this is about the moves in the PV that are not the first one, they could behave like it.
Parent - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2010-12-13 19:14
Sooo ..., I got this. One question though: what you describe is what is being displayed as PV. Can you tell me what is happening at the same time in Sampled Search window? As I have seen in SS (on occasions) R4 analysing a line that has nothing to do with so far best line in PV.
Parent - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2010-12-13 19:16

> 2:00 0.16 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Bd3
> 2:10 0.10 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.O-O O-O 6.d3 h6 7.h3 a6 8.Qe2 b5
> 2:20 0.20 1. e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.Nf3 Bd6 5.O-O O-O 6.Bc4 a6 7.a4 h6
> 2:30 0.16 1. e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nxc6 bxc6 6.Nc3 Nf6 7.Be2 Bb4 8.Qd3 O-O
> 4:00 0.16 1. e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nxc6 bxc6 6.Nc3 Nf6 7.Be2 Bb4 8.Qd3 O-O


And oh, will this be shown once R4.1 is released? As this is quite helpful of course.
Parent - - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2010-12-13 05:25

> I find incredible that people aren't asking about the new feature


I think the reason behind this behaviour is that we all are witholding our hopes a bit, given the very dissappointing rate at which new stuff (which we know are brought to life) are being incorporated in (so far non existant) bugfix/update versions of Rybka. Also, one should bear in mind that more often than not, new Rx product always carried at least one brand new mega-bug, thus significantly reducing our joy. And in the end, some revolutionary new features in previous versions showed to be broken, or of no use.
Myself, I find it frustrating that so little information on bugfix/new stuff is articulated and given out here in forum. I find it even more frustrating that, instead of laying down before us mortals these news in normal, easy-to-understand way, we are expected to deduct from the hazy hints what is materializing down the line. You see, even you ask questions, when maybe a few simple facts concerning the way R4 (beta) does her infinite, or multi-infinite, or going one better, the way she displays her process to us, might be in place. Call me lazy but ... life is too short for riddles, at least for me.
Though, I must admit, your later post got my attention very much, and I thank you for going through so much trouble explaining it. I must also admit I don't get it, but it's very early in the morning over here, and only my small brain is awake at the moment, so I'll check it out later and possibly understand what you're saying. :-)
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-12-13 05:35

> Myself, I find it frustrating that so little information on bugfix


Bugfixing hasn't started yet :confused:
Parent - - By oudheusa (*****) Date 2010-12-13 07:05
why? is this R5 you are working on or is Vas throwing some christmas presents in 4.1?
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-12-13 08:39
I don't know. My wild guess is that Vas wants to sit down and fix everything in one sit, but he hasn't had the time to do it yet.
Parent - By Akbarfan (***) Date 2010-12-13 10:45
OMG
Parent - - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2010-12-13 19:18
Can you put a Sampled Search in this perspective, please? I'm not quite sure I understand all of this, though some of it is clear.

> Did you know that a few seconds after Rybka shows that PV, it is already obsolete, and a better line is already known?


This I do not quite get. What do you mean? Is it 100% the case? Or sometimes?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-12-14 08:12 Edited 2010-12-14 08:14

>Can you tell me what is happening at the same time in Sampled Search window?


I don't know, it'll show what Rybka 4 would show, but I've never used Sampled Search (first, because my GUI doesn't support it, and now because my 800x600 resolution eats the Search Samples window).

>And oh, will this be shown once R4.1 is released? As this is quite helpful of course.


Yes, I think this is revolutionary! But I've been the only person I've found that is jumping in joy about it...

> This I do not quite get. What do you mean? Is it 100% the case? Or sometimes?


Every time that you see now that Rybka 4 comes back with a different PV on the next iteration, this is true (for the second and beyond moves in the mainline), it only changes how much time it takes to be obsolete, it could be seconds or minutes, but for people that tend to leave their computers running overnights, they'll be able to see the mainline in R4.1 hours before Rybka 4 shows it! (with the knowledge that it could be refuted before the iteration ends).

In this way I don't see why the best move and the next ones the PV should be differentiated, all of them are as reliable at the relative depths. IDEA comes to mind, doesn't it write the best move to the tree and throws the rest away? Knowing the mainlines would allow IDEA to write at some relative depth all moves from the PV, and let Rybka show the refutations of them by herself without relying on searchmoves to look for alternatives (equals less interaction needed for IDEA).
Parent - - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2010-12-14 10:22

>> Can you tell me what is happening at the same time in Sampled Search window?
> I don't know, it'll show what Rybka 4 would show, but I've never used Sampled Search (first, because my GUI doesn't support it, and now because my 800x600 resolution eats the Search Samples window).


I kinda thought you don't use it (and right now I remember you use Shredder GUI), as quite a bit of what you describe can now be witnessed in Sampled Search window if you watch it closely (which I do all of the time). So, not so revolutinary. But probably there are improvements in SS display over R4.

> Every time that you see now that Rybka 4 comes back with a different PV on the next iteration, this is true (for the second and beyond moves in the mainline), it only changes how much time it takes to be obsolete, it could be seconds or minutes, but for people that tend to leave their computers running overnights, they'll be able to see the mainline in R4.1 hours before Rybka 4 shows it! (with the knowledge that it could be refuted before the iteration ends).


Still not getting to the bottom of this, but once again, it smells like something I can see now just by watching SS window carefuly. At least, I am 100% sure some of mentioned behaviour can be seen already now from logx file, which I constantly keep active. SS now requires some improvement though, for instance, compared to R3 SS it is now not visible at all a process where potential new candidate is fighting for the top spot (with R3, we were able to see exclamation mark and it progressed to the root - or was refuted at some point), now all we can see is that move and infinite sign for long time, and if it wins it just pops up in PV new line, if not, she goes on to the next move. Also, the final phase of this process has SS display weird stuff, like 3rd moves, impossible moves, 2 consecutive infinite signs, etc.

All together, Sampled Search (in my view at least) is the biggest invention after the wheel, but you probably figured that much by now. It saves me hours and hours on infinite, allowing me to understand a lot more about the position than I would understand without it.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-12-14 10:46

> All together, Sampled Search (in my view at least) is the biggest invention after the wheel, but you probably figured that much by now.


I see, I guess the new Mainlines functionality is just a subset of Sampled Search, where only refutations (what interest me) are shown, no wonder I was the only amazed guy around! :smile:
Parent - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2010-12-14 14:01
It would be, however, a huge benefit for us infinite people to see refutations clear and full in PV window. Let's hope for it.
Parent - By M ANSARI (*****) Date 2010-12-12 06:35
Yes it is funny how adding a new feature can end up fixing a bug at the same time :razz:
Parent - By HarshQueen (**) Date 2010-12-12 09:16

>Many moves look strong but actually draw.  Few engines get h5! which wins on the spot.  There is a possibility that Qc7+ is winning also but not so sure.


8/5k2/1p2q1p1/3pQpP1/1P3P1P/6K1/5P2/8 w - - 0 1


Analysis by:  My Corr. Engine (in 04 sec.)

1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Kf8 3.b5 Ke8 4.Qg7 Qe4 5.Qg6+ Ke7 6.Qxh5 Qd3+ 7.f3 Qe3 8.Qh7+ Ke8 9.Qg6+ Kd8 10.Qd6+ Ke8 11.Qe5+ Qxe5 12.fxe5 Kf7 13.f4 d4 14.Kf3 Ke6 15.g6
  +-  (1.61)   Depth: 19/64   00:00:04  10102kN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Kf8 3.b5 Ke8 4.Qg7 Qe4 5.Qg6+ Ke7 6.Qxh5 Qd3+ 7.f3 Qe3 8.Qh7+ Ke8 9.Qg6+ Kd8 10.Qd6+ Ke8 11.Qe5+ Qxe5 12.fxe5 Kf7 13.f4 d4 14.Kf3 Ke6 15.g6
  +-  (1.70 ++)   Depth: 20/64   00:00:06  14861kN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Kf8 3.b5 Ke8 4.Qg7 Qe4 5.Qg6+ Ke7 6.Qxh5 Qd3+ 7.f3 Qe3 8.Qh7+ Ke8 9.Qg6+ Kd8 10.Qd6+ Ke8 11.Qe5+ Qxe5 12.fxe5 Kf7 13.f4 d4 14.Kf3 Ke6 15.g6 Ke7 16.g7 Kf7
  +-  (1.87 ++)   Depth: 20/64   00:00:10  25155kN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Kg6 3.b5 d4 4.Kh4 Qe2 5.Qxb6+ Kf7 6.Qf6+ Ke8 7.Qe5+ Qxe5 8.fxe5 d3 9.b6 Kd7 10.b7 Kc7 11.b8Q+ Kxb8 12.g6 d2 13.g7 d1Q 14.g8Q+ Kc7 15.Qf7+ Kd8 16.Qf8+ Kd7 17.Qxf5+ Ke7 18.f4 Qe2 19.Qg5+ Kf8 20.Qxh5 Qf2+ 21.Kg5 Ke7 22.Qh7+ Ke6 23.Qf5+ Ke7 24.Qf6+ Kd7
  +-  (2.19)   Depth: 20/64   00:00:22  52637kN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Kg8 3.Kh4 d4 4.Qd8+ Kh7 5.Qxd4 Qc6 6.Qd1 b5 7.Kxh5 Qe8+ 8.Kh4 Qe4 9.Qd7+ Kg6 10.Qd6+ Kh7 11.Kg3 Qb1 12.Qh6+ Kg8 13.Qg6+ Kf8 14.Qf6+ Kg8 15.Qe6+ Kg7 16.Qd7+ Kf8 17.Qd6+ Kg8 18.Qd5+ Kg7 19.Qe5+ Kh7 20.Qe7+ Kg8 21.Qe8+ Kg7 22.Qe5+ Kh7
  +-  (2.24)   Depth: 21/66   00:00:37  91266kN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Kg8 3.Kh4 d4 4.Qd8+ Kh7 5.Qxd4 Qc6 6.Qd1 b5 7.Kxh5 Qe8+ 8.Kh4 Qe4 9.Qd7+ Kg6 10.Qd6+ Kh7 11.Kg3 Qb1 12.Qh6+ Kg8 13.Qg6+ Kf8 14.Qf6+ Kg8 15.Qe6+ Kg7 16.Qh6+ Kg8 17.Qg6+
  +-  (2.36 ++)   Depth: 22/66   00:01:13  180mN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Kf8 3.b5 Ke8 4.Qg7 Qe4 5.Qg6+ Ke7 6.Qxh5 Qb1 7.Qh7+ Kd6 8.Qg6+ Kc5 9.Qc6+ Kb4 10.Qxd5 Qg1+ 11.Qg2 Qd1 12.f3 Kxb5 13.g6 Qe1+ 14.Qf2 Qe6 15.Qb2+ Kc6 16.g7 b5 17.Qc3+ Kb6 18.Qe5 Qg6+ 19.Kf2 Kc6 20.Qa1 Kb7 21.Qc3 Qe6 22.Qe5
  +-  (2.48)   Depth: 22/66   00:01:52  274mN
Parent - By Lazy Frank (****) Date 2011-03-19 10:24
Fastest way - h5 (makes candidate pawn g5 one step ahead of both black candidate pawns)
Similar - Qh8 with following h5.

Second pool (99% win) is Qa1/Qc3/Qc7+.
Third pool (very probably win) is b5/Kg2/Qd4/Qb2.
Need to be careful avoid of 3 fold repetition, because not optional winning choice.

Unclear pool (very probably draw by 3 fold repetition) - f3/Qb8/Qe3/Qxe6+.
- - By nagysalamon (*) Date 2010-12-10 14:20
Tisztelt Sporttársak! Deep Rybka 4 Beállításaim:-5:-4:-8:-7:-10:-9:-10:-9:-5:-4:-87:-82 Rook endgame:100: Tcbaffer3:Normal m:26 ,Max m:39 Depht 22-24 között nézegeti h5! 3.79!!Úgyhogy én nem vagyok meghatódva!!
Parent - - By dragon49 (****) Date 2010-12-12 02:10
Stockfish gets it in 11 seconds:

New game
8/5k2/1p2q1p1/3pQpP1/1P3P1P/6K1/5P2/8 w - - 0 1


Analysis by Stockfish 1.9 JA 64bit:

1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qh7 Qf7 4.Qh6
  +-  (1.41 !)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  6kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qh7 Qf7 4.g6
  +-  (1.57 !)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  6kN
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Kh4 d4 4.Qd8+ Kg7 5.Qxd4+ Kg6
  +-  (1.73)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  9kN
1.Qc7+ Kf8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qh7 Qe4 4.Qh6+ Ke7 5.Qf6+ Kd7 6.Qxb6
  +-  (1.77)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  32kN
1.Qc7+ Kf8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Kh4 Ke8 4.Kxh5 Qf7+ 5.Qxf7+ Kxf7 6.Kh6 d4 7.g6+ Kf6 8.g7 Kf7
  +-  (1.81)   Depth: 8   00:00:00  54kN
1.Qc7+ Kf8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Kh4 Ke8 4.Kxh5 d4 5.Qe5 Qxe5 6.fxe5 d3 7.e6 d2
  +-  (1.73 --)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  67kN
1.Qc7+ Kf8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Kh4 Ke8 4.Qh7 Qe4 5.Qxh5+ Ke7 6.Qh7+ Ke6 7.Qg6+ Kd7 8.Qxb6 Qxf4+ 9.Kh5
  +-  (1.69)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  77kN
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Kh4 Kf8 4.Kxh5 Qf7+ 5.Qxf7+ Kxf7 6.Kh6 d4 7.g6+ Kg8 8.Kg5 d3 9.Kxf5 d2
  +-  (1.53 --)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  129kN
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Kh4 Kf8 4.b5 Ke8 5.Kxh5 Qf7+ 6.Qxf7+ Kxf7 7.Kh6
  +-  (1.85 !)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  146kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qh7 Kf8 4.b5 d4 5.Qh8+ Kf7 6.Qxd4 Kg6 7.Kh4
  +-  (1.61)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  187kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qh7 Kf8 4.b5 d4 5.Qh8+ Kf7 6.Qxd4 Kg6 7.Kh4
  +-  (1.77 !)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  224kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qh7 Kf8 4.b5 d4 5.Qh8+ Kf7 6.Qxd4 Kg6 7.Kh4
  +-  (1.93 !)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  289kN
1.Qc7+ Kf8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Kh4 Ke8 4.Qh7 Qe4 5.Qxh5+ Ke7 6.Qh7+ Ke6 7.Qg6+ Kd7 8.Qg7+ Ke6 9.Qf6+ Kd7 10.Kg3
  +-  (1.89)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  362kN
1.Qc7+ Kf8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Kh4 Ke8 4.Qh7 Qe4 5.Qxh5+ Ke7 6.Qh7+ Ke6 7.Qg6+ Kd7 8.Qg7+ Ke6 9.Qf6+ Kd7 10.Kg3 d4 11.g6 b5
  +-  (2.02)   Depth: 12   00:00:00  413kN
1.Qc7+ Kf8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Kh4 Ke8 4.Qh7 Qe4 5.Qxh5+ Ke7 6.Qh7+ Ke6 7.Qg6+ Kd7 8.Qg7+ Qe7 9.Qe5 Qxe5 10.fxe5 Ke6 11.g6 d4 12.g7 Kf7
  +-  (1.93)   Depth: 13   00:00:00  578kN
1.Qc7+ Kf8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Kh4 Kg8 4.b5 Kf8 5.Kxh5 d4 6.g6 d3 7.Qd8+ Kg7 8.Qd4+ Qf6 9.Qd7+
  +-  (1.77 --)   Depth: 14   00:00:00  1029kN
1.Qc7+ Kf8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Kh4 Kg8 4.b5 Kf8 5.Qh7 Qe4 6.Qh6+ Ke8 7.Qc6+ Kf7 8.Qc7+ Kf8 9.g6
  +-  (2.10 !)   Depth: 14   00:00:00  1200kN
1.Qc7+ Kf8 2.h5 gxh5 3.b5 Kg8 4.Kh4 Kf8 5.Qh7 Qe4 6.Qh6+ Ke8 7.Qc6+ Ke7 8.Qc7+ Ke8 9.g6 Qe7+ 10.Qxe7+ Kxe7 11.Kxh5 d4 12.Kg5 Ke6
  +-  (2.14)   Depth: 14   00:00:00  1406kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qh7 Kf8 4.b5 Ke8 5.Qxh5+ Ke7 6.Qh8 Kd6 7.Qd4 Ke7 8.Qg7+ Kd6 9.g6 Kc5 10.Qf7
  +-  (1.89 --)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  1911kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qh7 Kf8 4.b5 Ke8 5.Qxh5+ Ke7 6.Qh8 Kd6 7.Qd4 Ke7 8.Qg7+ Kd6 9.g6 Kc5 10.Qf7
  +-  (2.38 !)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  2172kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qh7 Kf8 4.b5 Ke8 5.Qxh5+ Ke7 6.Qh8 Kf7 7.Qh7+ Kf8 8.Kh4 Ke8 9.Kh5 Qe2+ 10.Kh6 Qe4 11.Qg6+ Ke7 12.Qxb6 Qxf4 13.Qf6+ Kd7 14.Qc6+ Ke7 15.Qxd5 Qxf2
  +-  (2.38)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  2813kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qh7 Kf8 4.b5 Ke8 5.Qxh5+ Ke7 6.Qh8 Kf7 7.Qh7+ Kf8 8.Kh4 Ke8 9.Qg7 Qe4 10.Qg6+ Kd7 11.Qc6+ Ke7 12.Qf6+ Ke8 13.Kg3 Qd3+ 14.f3
  +-  (2.42)   Depth: 16   00:00:01  3575kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qh7 Kf8 4.b5 Ke8 5.Qxh5+ Ke7 6.Qh8 Kf7 7.Qh7+ Kf8 8.Kh4 Ke8 9.Qg7 Qe4 10.Qg6+ Kd7 11.Qc6+ Ke7 12.Qf6+ Kd7 13.Kg3 d4 14.g6 Qd3+ 15.f3
  +-  (2.42)   Depth: 17   00:00:01  4018kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.h5 Qe2 3.Qc8+ Ke7 4.Qb7+ Kf8 5.Qb8+ Ke7 6.Qa7+ Kf8 7.Qa8+ Ke7 8.Qb7+
  +-  (2.34 --)   Depth: 18   00:00:01  9904kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.h5 Qe2 3.Qc8+ Ke7 4.Qb7+ Kf8 5.Qb8+ Ke7 6.Qa7+ Kf8 7.Qa8+ Ke7 8.Qb7+
  +-  (2.26 --)   Depth: 18   00:00:01  10481kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.h5 Qe2 3.Qc6+ Ke7 4.Qf6+ Kd7 5.Qf7+ Kc8 6.Qf8+ Kd7 7.Qf7+
  +-  (2.10 --)   Depth: 18   00:00:02  11532kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.h5 Qe2 3.Qc8+ Ke7 4.Qb7+ Kf8 5.Qb8+ Ke7 6.Qa7+ Kf8 7.Qb8+
  +-  (1.77 --)   Depth: 18   00:00:02  12810kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qb8+ Ke7 3.Qh8 Kd7 4.Qb2 Kd6 5.Qg7 Kc6 6.h5 gxh5 7.g6 d4 8.b5+ Kd5 9.Qb7+ Kc5 10.Qc6+ Qxc6 11.bxc6 d3 12.g7
  +-  (1.97)   Depth: 18   00:00:03  19939kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qb8+ Ke7 3.Qh8 Kd7 4.Qb2 Ke8 5.h5 gxh5 6.Qh8+ Kf7 7.Qxh5+ Kg8 8.Qd1 Qe4 9.Qc1 Qxb4 10.Qc7 Qa3+ 11.f3
  +-  (2.30)   Depth: 19   00:00:03  23946kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qb8+ Ke7 3.Qh8 Kd7 4.Qb2 Ke8 5.h5 gxh5 6.Qh8+ Kf7 7.Qxh5+ Kg8 8.Qd1 Qe4 9.Qc1 Qxb4 10.Qc7 Qa3+ 11.f3 Qa1 12.Qc8+ Kg7 13.Qd7+ Kg6 14.Qc6+ Kg7 15.Qxd5 Qe1+ 16.Kg2 Qe2+ 17.Kg3 Qe1+
  +-  (2.22)   Depth: 20   00:00:03  24791kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qb8+ Ke7 3.Qh8 Kd7 4.Qb2 Ke8 5.h5 gxh5 6.Qh8+ Kf7 7.Qxh5+ Kg8 8.Qd1 Qe4 9.Qa4 Qd3+ 10.Kh4 Qe4 11.Qa8+ Kf7 12.Qb7+ Kf8 13.Qc8+ Kf7 14.Qc7+ Kf8 15.Qd8+ Kg7 16.Qf6+ Kh7 17.Qf7+
  +-  (2.46 !)   Depth: 21   00:00:04  28400kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qb8+ Ke7 3.Qc7+ Kf8 4.Qd8+ Kg7 5.b5 Kh7 6.Qc7+ Kg8 7.h5 gxh5 8.Kh4 d4 9.Qd8+ Kh7 10.Qxd4 Qe2 11.Qd7+ Kg6 12.Qc6+ Kh7 13.Qh6+ Kg8 14.Qg6+
  +-  (2.50)   Depth: 21   00:00:05  38607kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qb8+ Ke7 3.h5 Qe2 4.Qc7+ Ke8 5.Qc6+ Ke7 6.Qb7+ Ke8 7.Qa8+ Ke7 8.Qa7+ Ke8 9.hxg6 Qg4+ 10.Kh2 Qxf4+ 11.Kh3 Qg4+
  +-  (2.18 --)   Depth: 22   00:00:05  40778kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qb8+ Ke7 3.Qa7+ Kf8 4.Qa8+ Ke7 5.Qa1 Ke8 6.Qh8+ Kd7 7.Qb2 Ke7 8.h5 gxh5 9.Qh8 Qf7 10.Qb8 Qe6 11.Qc7+ Kf8 12.b5 Kg8 13.Qb8+ Kf7 14.Qa7+ Ke8 15.Qg7 Qe2 16.Qg6+ Kf8 17.Qxf5+ Ke7 18.g6 h4+ 19.Kxh4 Qxf2+ 20.Kg5 Qg1+ 21.Qg4 Qxg4+ 22.Kxg4 Kf6
  +-  (2.30)   Depth: 22   00:00:07  55966kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qb8+ Ke7 3.Qa7+ Kf8 4.Qa8+ Ke7 5.Qa1 Ke8 6.Qh8+ Kd7 7.Qb2 Ke7 8.h5 gxh5 9.Qh8 Qf7 10.Qb8 Qe6 11.Qc7+ Ke8 12.Qh7 Kf8 13.b5 Qe2 14.Qxf5+ Kg7 15.Kg2 h4 16.Qf6+ Kg8 17.g6 Qg4+ 18.Kh2 Qd7 19.Qxh4 d4 20.f5 Qxf5 21.Qh7+
  +-  (2.38)   Depth: 23   00:00:08  62565kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qb8+ Ke7 3.Qa7+ Kf8 4.Qa8+ Ke7 5.Qb7+ Ke8 6.Qh7 Kf8 7.Qh6+ Ke7 8.h5 Qe2 9.Qh7+ Kd8 10.hxg6 Qg4+ 11.Kh2 Qxf4+ 12.Kg2 Qxg5+ 13.Kf3 Qg4+ 14.Ke3 Qe4+
  +-  (2.18 --)   Depth: 24   00:00:08  66875kN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Ke8 3.Qg7 h4+ 4.Kxh4 Qd6 5.Kg3 d4 6.g6
  +-  (2.58 !)   Depth: 24   00:00:11  90194kN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+
  +-  (2.78 !)   Depth: 24   00:00:18  146mN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Ke8 3.Qg7 Qe2 4.Qg6+ Kf8 5.Qxf5+ Kg7 6.Qf6+ Kh7 7.g6+ Kh6 8.Qg5+ Kg7 9.f5 Qe5+ 10.Kh3 d4 11.Qxh5 Qf4 12.Kg2 Kf6 13.Qh8+ Kg5 14.Qd8+ Kh6 15.Qf8+ Kh5 16.Kf1 Qd2 17.Qh8+ Kg5 18.Qe5 Qxb4 19.g7 Qc4+ 20.Kg2 Kh6 21.Kf3 d3 22.Ke3
  +-  (2.74)   Depth: 24   00:00:25  205mN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Ke8 3.Qg7 Qe2 4.Qg6+ Kf8 5.Qxf5+ Kg7 6.Qf6+ Kh7 7.g6+ Kh6 8.Qg5+ Kg7 9.f5 Qe5+ 10.Kh3 d4 11.Qxh5 Qf4 12.Kg2 Kf6 13.Qh8+ Kg5 14.Qd8+ Kh6 15.Qf8+ Kg5 16.Qe7+ Kh6 17.Qh7+ Kg5 18.Qh3 Kf6 19.Qh5 Kg7 20.Qh7+ Kf6 21.Qf7+ Kg5 22.Qb3 Kh6 23.Qf7 Qg4+ 24.Kf1 Qd1+ 25.Kg2 Qg4+
  +-  (2.82)   Depth: 25   00:00:28  230mN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Ke8 3.Qg7 Qe2 4.Qg6+ Kf8 5.Qxf5+ Kg7 6.Qf6+ Kh7 7.g6+ Kh6 8.Qg5+ Kg7 9.f5 Qe5+ 10.Kh3 d4 11.Qxh5 Qf4 12.Kg2 Kf6 13.Qh8+ Kg5 14.Qd8+ Kh6 15.Qf8+ Kg5 16.Qe7+ Kh6 17.Qh7+ Kg5 18.Qh3 Kf6 19.Qh5 Kg7 20.b5 d3 21.Qh7+ Kf6 22.Qh8+ Kxf5 23.Qf8+ Kg5 24.Qxf4+ Kxf4 25.Kf1
  +-  (2.94)   Depth: 26   00:00:37  302mN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Ke8 3.Qg7 Qe2 4.Qg6+ Kf8 5.Qxf5+ Kg7 6.Qf6+ Kh7 7.g6+
  +-  (3.11 !)   Depth: 27   00:00:54  442mN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Kf8 3.Kh4 Ke8 4.Qh7 Kf8 5.Kxh5 Qe2+ 6.Kh6 Qe6+ 7.g6 Qf6 8.Kh5 Qg7 9.Kg5 Qxh7 10.gxh7 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kxh7 12.Ke5 Kh6 13.Kxd5
  +-  (3.27 !)   Depth: 27   00:01:14  611mN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Ke8 3.Qh7 Kf8 4.Kh4 b5 5.Kxh5 Qe2+ 6.f3 Qe6 7.g6 Qf6 8.Qd7 d4 9.Qxb5 Ke7 10.Qb7+ Kf8 11.Qd7
  +-  (3.59 !)   Depth: 27   00:01:41  820mN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Ke8 3.Qh7 Kf8 4.Kh4 Qe4 5.Qh8+ Kf7 6.Qxh5+ Ke7 7.Kg3 Qb1 8.Qh7+ Kd6 9.Qh6+ Kd7 10.Qg7+ Kc6 11.Qd4 Qg1+ 12.Kf3 Qg4+ 13.Ke3 Qh3+ 14.f3 Qf1 15.Qf6+ Kb5 16.Qxf5 Kc4 17.Qc2+ Kxb4 18.Qd2+ Kc5 19.f5 Qc4 20.g6 d4+ 21.Kf4 d3+ 22.Kg5 Kd6 23.f6
  +-  (3.51)   Depth: 27   00:01:55  932mN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Kf8 3.Kh4 Ke8 4.Qh7 Qe2 5.Qg6+ Ke7 6.Qxf5 Qxf2+ 7.Kxh5 Qf3+ 8.Kh6 Qh1+ 9.Kg7 Qe4 10.Qf6+ Kd7 11.f5 d4 12.Qxb6 Qe7+ 13.Kh6 Qf8+ 14.Kh5 Qxf5 15.Qxd4+ Ke8 16.Qc4 Kd8 17.Qg8+ Kd7 18.Qg7+ Kc8 19.Qe7 Qh3+ 20.Kg6 Qd3+ 21.Kf6 Qf3+
  +-  (3.95)   Depth: 28   00:02:21  1141mN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Kf8 3.Kh4 Ke8 4.Qh7 Qe2 5.Qg6+ Ke7 6.Qxf5 Qxf2+ 7.Kxh5 Qf3+ 8.Kh6 Qh1+ 9.Kg7 Qe4 10.Qf6+ Kd7 11.f5 d4 12.Qxb6 Qe7+ 13.Kh6 Qf8+ 14.Kh5 Qxf5 15.Qxd4+ Ke8 16.Qc4 Kd8 17.Qg8+ Kd7 18.Qg7+ Kc8 19.Qe7 Qh3+ 20.Kg6 Qh2 21.Kg7 Qh4 22.b5 Qd4+ 23.Kh6 Qh8+ 24.Kg6
  +-  (4.20)   Depth: 29   00:03:28  1672mN
Parent - By dragon49 (****) Date 2010-12-12 05:36
Sjeng usually gets to the truth, but sometimes takes a while.  I'd love to get a hold of a cluster ready version!

New game
8/5k2/1p2q1p1/3pQpP1/1P3P1P/6K1/5P2/8 w - - 0 1


Analysis by Deep Sjeng WC2008 x64:

1.Qh8 Ke7 2.Qg7+ Kd8 3.h5 gxh5 4.Qb7
  +-  (1.57)   Depth: 6/17   00:00:00  16kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qxh5 Qe4 4.Qg6 b5
  +-  (1.72)   Depth: 7/17   00:00:00  27kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qxh5 Kd6 4.Qh8 Qe4 5.Qc8
  +-  (1.96)   Depth: 8/17   00:00:00  42kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qxh5 Kd6 4.Qh8 Kc6 5.Qa8+ Kc7 6.Qa7+ Kd8
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 9/21   00:00:00  88kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qxh5 Kd6 4.Qh8 Kc6 5.Qa8+ Kc7 6.Qa7+ Kc6 7.Qa6
  +-  (1.95)   Depth: 10/23   00:00:00  132kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qh7+ Kd8 4.g6 Qe1 5.Qh8+ Ke7 6.Qg7+ Kd6 7.Qf8+ Kc6 8.Qf6+ Kb5 9.Qxf5
  +-  (2.04)   Depth: 11/24   00:00:00  286kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qh7+ Kd8 4.Qxh5 Kc7 5.Qh8 Qf7 6.Qa1 Qe6 7.Qg7+ Kd6 8.Qb7
  +-  (2.02)   Depth: 12/27   00:00:00  567kN
1.Qh8
  +-  (1.72 --)   Depth: 13/30   00:00:00  1151kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.Qh7+ Qf7 3.Qh6 Qe6 4.Qg7+ Kd6 5.h5 gxh5 6.Qb7 Qe2 7.Qxb6+ Kd7 8.Qb7+ Kd6 9.Qb8+ Kd7 10.f3 Qe1+ 11.Kh2 Qe2+ 12.Kh3 Qxf3+ 13.Kh4
  +-  (1.65)   Depth: 13/32   00:00:00  2835kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.Qh7+ Qf7 3.Qh6 Qe6 4.Qg7+ Kd6 5.h5 gxh5 6.Qb7 Qe2 7.Qxb6+ Kd7 8.Qb7+ Kd6 9.Qb8+ Kd7 10.f3 Qe1+ 11.Kh2 Qe2+ 12.Kh3 Qxf3+ 13.Kh4
  +-  (1.65)   Depth: 13/32   00:00:00  3125kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.b5 Qe2 3.Qf6+ Kd7 4.Qc6+ Ke7 5.Qc7+ Ke8 6.Qe5+ Qxe5 7.fxe5 d4 8.Kf3 Ke7 9.Ke2 f4 10.Kd3 Ke6 11.Kxd4 f3 12.h5 gxh5 13.Ke4
  +-  (1.66)   Depth: 14/44   00:00:01  8256kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.b5 Qe2 3.Qg7+ Kd8 4.Qf6+ Kd7 5.Qc6+ Ke7 6.Qc7+ Ke8 7.Qe5+ Qxe5 8.fxe5 d4 9.Kf3 Ke7 10.Ke2 f4 11.Kd3 Ke6 12.Kxd4 f3 13.h5 gxh5 14.Ke4
  +-  (1.66)   Depth: 15/44   00:00:01  10281kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.Qd4 Ke8 3.Qb2 Qe1 4.Qe5+ Qxe5 5.fxe5 d4 6.f4 Ke7 7.Kf3 b5 8.Ke2 Kf8 9.Kd3
  +-  (1.67)   Depth: 16/44   00:00:03  17035kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.Qd4 Ke8 3.h5 gxh5 4.Qh8+ Kd7 5.Qxh5 d4 6.Qh7+ Kc6 7.Qh6 Qd6 8.Qxd6+ Kxd6 9.Kf3 Kd5 10.Ke2 Ke6 11.Kd3 Kd5 12.g6
  +-  (1.73)   Depth: 17/44   00:00:04  24610kN
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qd8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.Qh8 Ke7 5.Qg7+ Kd6 6.h5 gxh5 7.g6 h4+ 8.Kh2 Qe8 9.Qd4 Kc7 10.g7 Qd8 11.Qe5+ Kb7 12.Qxf5
  +-  (1.78)   Depth: 17/59   00:00:23  140mN, tb=624
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qg7 Kd8 3.Qb2 Kd7 4.b5 Qe7 5.h5 gxh5 6.Qc3 Qe2 7.Qc6+ Ke7 8.Qb7+ Kf8 9.Qc8+ Ke7 10.Qxf5 Qg4+ 11.Qxg4 hxg4 12.Kxg4 d4
  +-  (1.85)   Depth: 18/61   00:01:41  556mN, tb=1488
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qg7 Kd8 3.Qb2 Kd7 4.b5 Ke8 5.h5 gxh5 6.Qh8+ Kf7 7.Qxh5+ Kg7 8.Qd1 Qd6 9.Qd4+ Kh7 10.Qc3 d4 11.Qc8 d3 12.Qxf5+ Kg7 13.f3 d2
  +-  (1.87)   Depth: 19/61   00:01:54  625mN, tb=2945
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qg7 Kd8 3.Qb2 Kd7 4.b5 Ke8 5.h5 gxh5 6.Qh8+ Kf7 7.Qxh5+ Kg7 8.Qd1 Qd6 9.Qc2 Qe6 10.Qc6 Kf7 11.Qc3 Kg8 12.Qa1
  +-  (1.87)   Depth: 20/61   00:02:17  750mN, tb=7204
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qg7 Kd8 3.Qb2 Ke7 4.b5 Kf7 5.Qh8 Ke7 6.Qg7+ Kd6 7.h5 gxh5 8.g6 h4+ 9.Kh2 Qe8 10.Qd4 Kc7 11.g7 Qd8 12.Qe5+ Kb7 13.Qxf5
  +-  (1.87)   Depth: 21/61   00:04:21  1451mN, tb=22843
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qg7 Kd8 3.Qb2 Ke7 4.b5 Kf7 5.Qh8 Ke7 6.Qg7+ Kd6 7.h5 gxh5 8.g6 h4+ 9.Kh2 Qe8 10.Qd4 Kc7 11.g7 Qd8 12.Qe5+ Kb7 13.Qxf5
  +-  (1.88)   Depth: 22/61   00:06:09  2062mN, tb=33908
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qg7 Kd8 3.Qb2 Ke7 4.b5 Kf7 5.Qh8 Ke7 6.Qg7+ Kd6 7.h5 gxh5 8.g6 h4+ 9.Kh2 Qe8 10.Qd4 Kc7 11.g7 Qd8 12.Qe5+ Kb7 13.Qxf5 Qg8 14.Qd7+
  +-  (1.88)   Depth: 23/61   00:14:07  4855mN, tb=63119
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qg7 Kd8 3.Qb2 Ke7 4.b5 Kf7 5.Qh8 Ke7 6.Qg7+ Kd8 7.Qb2 Ke8 8.h5 gxh5 9.Qh8+ Kf7 10.Qxh5+ Kg7 11.Qd1 Qd6 12.Qd4+ Kh7 13.Qa1 Qe6 14.Qc3 Qd6 15.Qc8
  +-  (1.88)   Depth: 24/61   00:29:28  9907mN, tb=120613
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qh8 b5 3.Kh4 Qg6 4.f3 Qe6 5.Kxh5 Qg6+ 6.Kh4 Qe6 7.Qh7+ Kf8 8.Kh3 Qf7 9.Qh6+ Ke7 10.Kh4 d4 11.Qc6 Qe6 12.Qc5+ Kf7 13.Qxd4 Qe1+ 14.Kh3 Qh1+ 15.Kg3 Qe1+ 16.Kg2 Qe2+ 17.Kg3 Qe1+
  +-  (2.14)   Depth: 24/61   01:33:45  33733mN, tb=167355
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qh8 b5 3.Kh4 Qg6 4.f3 Qe6 5.Kxh5 Qg6+ 6.Kh4 Qe6 7.Qh7+ Kf8 8.Kh3 Qf7 9.Qh6+ Ke7 10.Kh4 d4 11.Qc6 Qe6 12.Qc5+ Kf7 13.Qxd4 Qe1+ 14.Kh3 Qh1+ 15.Kg3 Qe1+ 16.Kg2 Qe2+ 17.Kg3 Qe1+
  +-  (2.24)   Depth: 25/61   01:34:01  33847mN, tb=167874
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qh8 b5 3.Kh4 Qg6 4.f3 Qe6 5.Qh7+ Kf8 6.Kxh5 Qf7+ 7.Kh6 Qe6+ 8.Qg6 Qxg6+ 9.Kxg6 d4 10.Kh7 d3 11.g6 Ke7 12.g7 d2 13.g8Q d1Q 14.Qg5+ Ke6 15.Kg6 Qd3 16.Qf6+ Kd7
  +-  (2.25)   Depth: 26/61   03:19:38  74409mN, tb=263506
Parent - - By Hurnavich (Bronze) Date 2010-12-12 09:08 Edited 2010-12-12 09:12
New game
8/5k2/1p2q1p1/3pQpP1/1P3P1P/6K1/5P2/8 w - - 0 1


Analysis by Naum 4.2 x64:

1.Qc7+ Kf8 2.Qb8+ Ke7 3.Qb7+ Kd8
  +/-  (1.11)   Depth: 6/15   00:00:00  3kN
1.Qc7+ Kf8 2.Qb8+ Ke7 3.Qb7+ Ke8 4.Qg7
  +/-  (1.15)   Depth: 7/15   00:00:00  4kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qb8+ Kd7 3.Qb7+ Kd8 4.Qg7 b5
  +/-  (1.04)   Depth: 8/21   00:00:00  25kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qb8+ Kd7 3.Qb7+ Ke8 4.Qg7 Qf7 5.Qa1
  +/-  (1.04)   Depth: 9/20   00:00:00  36kN
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qb8+ Kd7 3.Qb7+ Ke8 4.Qg7 Qf7 5.Qa1 Kf8
  +/-  (1.05)   Depth: 10/20   00:00:00  49kN
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qd8+ Kh7 3.Qb8 Qc6 4.Qa7+ Kg8 5.Qe7 Qc3+ 6.f3
  +/-  (1.09)   Depth: 11/26   00:00:00  192kN
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qd8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.Qc7+ Ke8 5.Qb8+ Kd7 6.Qa7+ Kd8
  +/-  (1.19)   Depth: 12/26   00:00:00  232kN
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qd8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.Qc7+ Ke8 5.Qb8+ Kd7 6.Qa7+ Kd8 7.Qa8+
  +/-  (1.19)   Depth: 13/28   00:00:00  317kN
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qd8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.Qc7+ Ke8 5.Qg7 Qf7 6.Qh8+ Ke7 7.Qb8 Qe6
  +/-  (1.19)   Depth: 14/27   00:00:00  423kN
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qd8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.Qc7+ Kf8 5.Qb8+ Ke7 6.Qb7+ Kf8 7.Qh7 Qf7 8.Qh6+
  +/-  (1.18)   Depth: 15/33   00:00:00  981kN
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qd8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.Qc7+ Kf8 5.Qb8+ Ke7 6.Qb7+ Kf8 7.Qh7 Qf7 8.Qh6+ Qg7
  +/-  (1.18)   Depth: 16/32   00:00:00  1231kN
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qd8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.Qc7+ Kf8 5.Qb8+ Ke7 6.Qb7+ Kf8 7.Qh7 Qf7 8.Qh6+ Qg7 9.Kf3
  +/-  (1.18)   Depth: 17/31   00:00:00  1661kN
1.Qc7+ Kf8 2.Qd8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.Qc7+
  +/-  (1.19)   Depth: 18/44   00:00:00  5411kN, tb=3
1.Qh8
  +/-  (1.20)   Depth: 18/44   00:00:00  8016kN, tb=11
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.Qg7+ Qf7 3.Qe5+ Kd7 4.b5 Qe6 5.Qa1 Ke7 6.Qa7+ Ke8 7.Qa8+ Ke7 8.Qb7+ Ke8 9.Qg7
  +/-  (1.19)   Depth: 18/44   00:00:01  16785kN, tb=29
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.b5 Kf7 3.Qh7+ Kf8 4.h5 gxh5 5.g6 Qf6 6.Qxh5 Kg7 7.Qh7+ Kf8 8.Kf3 Qc3+ 9.Kg2 Qf6 10.Kg3
  +/-  (1.27)   Depth: 19/45   00:00:01  25523kN, tb=30
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.b5 Kf7 3.Qh7+ Kf8 4.h5 gxh5 5.g6 Qf6 6.Qxh5 Kg7 7.Qh7+ Kf8 8.Kf3 Qc3+ 9.Kg2 Qf6 10.Kh2 d4
  +/-  (1.27)   Depth: 20/38   00:00:01  26664kN, tb=32
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.b5 Qe2 3.Qf6+ Kd7 4.Qc6+ Ke7 5.Qc7+ Ke8 6.Qe5+ Qxe5 7.fxe5 Kf7 8.f4 Ke6 9.Kf2 Kf7 10.Ke1 Ke7 11.Kd1
  +/-  (1.34)   Depth: 21/42   00:00:02  35889kN, tb=69
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.b5 Qe2 3.Qf6+ Kd7 4.Qc6+ Ke7 5.Qc7+ Ke8 6.Qe5+ Qxe5 7.fxe5 Kf7 8.f4 Ke6 9.Kf2 Kf7 10.Ke1 Ke7 11.Kd1 Kf7
  +/-  (1.34)   Depth: 22/43   00:00:03  44833kN, tb=83
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.b5 Qe2 3.Qf6+ Kd7 4.Qc6+ Ke7 5.Qc7+ Ke8 6.Qe5+ Qxe5 7.fxe5 Kf7 8.f4 Ke6 9.Kf2 Kf7 10.Ke1 Ke7 11.Kd1 Kf7 12.Kc2
  +/-  (1.34)   Depth: 23/44   00:00:04  59929kN, tb=222
1.h5
  +/-  (1.35)   Depth: 23/53   00:00:10  146mN, tb=4730
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Kf8 3.b5 Qe2 4.Qd6+ Ke8 5.Qg6+ Kf8 6.Qxf5+ Kg7 7.Kg2 d4 8.Qf6+ Kh7 9.Qxd4 Qg4+ 10.Kf1 h4 11.Qe4+ Kg7 12.Qe5+
  +-  (1.80)   Depth: 23/56   00:00:20  312mN, tb=12941

Hurnavich

10 seconds :)

New game
8/5k2/1p2q1p1/3pQpP1/1P3P1P/6K1/5P2/8 w - - 0 1


Analysis by Deep Shredder 12 x64:

1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.Qg7 Qd6 3.Qd4 Kd7 4.f3 Kc7
  +/-  (1.21)   Depth: 6/16   00:00:00  28kN
1.Qh8 Qd6 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qxh5+ Kg7 4.b5 d4
  +-  (2.20)   Depth: 6/20   00:00:00  45kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qxh5 d4 4.g6 d3 5.g7
  +-  (1.88)   Depth: 7/20   00:00:00  67kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qxh5 d4 4.Qf3 Qd7 5.Qd3 Kf7 6.f3
  +-  (2.10)   Depth: 8/22   00:00:00  103kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qxh5 d4 4.Qh7+ Kd6 5.Qh8 Qb3+ 6.f3 d3 7.Qd8+ Kc6 8.g6
  +-  (2.19)   Depth: 9/21   00:00:00  130kN
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.h5 gxh5 3.Qxh5 d4 4.Qh7+ Kd6 5.Qh8 Qb3+ 6.f3 d3 7.Qd4+ Kc6 8.g6 Kb7 9.Qd7+ Ka6 10.Qxf5
  +-  (2.12)   Depth: 10/26   00:00:00  181kN
1.Qh8 Qd6 2.Qh7+ Kf8 3.Qh6+ Ke7 4.h5 gxh5 5.Qxh5 Qxb4 6.Qh7+ Kd6 7.Qxf5 Qc3+ 8.Kg4 Qg7 9.f3 Qe7 10.Qb1
  +-  (2.26)   Depth: 11/30   00:00:00  502kN
1.Qh8 Qd6 2.Qh7+ Kf8 3.Qh6+ Ke7 4.h5 gxh5 5.Qxh5 Qxb4 6.Qh7+ Kd6 7.Qxf5 Qc3+ 8.Kg4 Qe1 9.Qf8+ Qe7 10.Qh6+ Kc5 11.f5 d4 12.g6
  +-  (2.56)   Depth: 12/32   00:00:00  723kN
1.Qh8 Qd6 2.Qh7+ Kf8 3.Qh6+ Ke7 4.h5 gxh5 5.Qxh5 Qxb4 6.Qh7+ Kd6 7.Qxf5 Qc3+ 8.Kg4 Qg7 9.Qd3 Qb2 10.Qe3 d4 11.Qf3
  +-  (2.57)   Depth: 13/30   00:00:00  944kN
1.Qh8 Qd6 2.Qh7+ Kf8 3.Qh6+ Ke7 4.h5 gxh5 5.Qxh5 Qxb4 6.Qh7+ Kd6 7.Qxf5 Qc3+ 8.Kg4 Qe1 9.Qg6+ Qe6+ 10.Qxe6+ Kxe6 11.f5+ Ke7 12.Kf4 b5 13.f6+ Ke6 14.Ke3 Kf7
  +-  (2.59)   Depth: 14/33   00:00:00  1779kN, tb=3
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.b5 Kd6 3.Qf8+ Qe7 4.Qh6 Qe6 5.h5 gxh5 6.Qxh5
  +-  (2.39)   Depth: 15/39   00:00:01  17987kN, tb=3
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.b5 Qf7 3.Qe5+ Qe6 4.Qg7+ Qf7
  +-  (2.46)   Depth: 16/42   00:00:02  24173kN, tb=13
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.b5 Qe2 3.Qe5+ Qxe5 4.fxe5 Kf8 5.Kf3 Ke7 6.Ke2 Kd7 7.f4 Ke6 8.Kd3 Kf7 9.Kd4
  +-  (2.31)   Depth: 17/42   00:00:03  29241kN, tb=27
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.b5 Qe2 3.Qe5+ Qxe5 4.fxe5 Kf8 5.Kf3 Ke7 6.Ke2 Kd7 7.f4 Ke6 8.Kd3 Kf7 9.Kd4
  +-  (2.31)   Depth: 18/44   00:00:05  45122kN, tb=351
1.Qh8 Ke7 2.b5 Qe2 3.Qe5+ Qxe5 4.fxe5 Kf8 5.Kf3 Ke7 6.Ke2 Kd7 7.f4 Ke6 8.Kd3 Kf7 9.Kd4 Ke6 10.Ke3
  +-  (2.31)   Depth: 19/44   00:00:07  64461kN, tb=651
1.h5 gxh5 2.Qc7+ Kf8 3.Qh7 b5 4.Qh8+ Kf7 5.Qxh5+ Kg7 6.Qd1 Kg8 7.Qd3 Qd7 8.Qd4 Qe6 9.Kf3 Qc6 10.g6 Qxg6 11.Qxd5+ Kh7 12.Qxb5 Qe6
  +-  (2.40)   Depth: 19/49   00:00:17  119mN, tb=3603
Parent - - By dragon49 (****) Date 2010-12-12 23:55
I suspect Q-c7 is winning as well:

New game
8/5k2/1p2q1p1/3pQpP1/1P3P1P/6K1/5P2/8 w - - 0 1


Analysis by Zappa Mexico II 64:

1.b5 Ke7 2.Qc7+ Ke8 3.h5 gxh5 4.Qg7 Qe2 5.Qg6+ Ke7 6.Qf6+ Ke8 7.Qxf5 h4+
  +-  (1.72)   Depth: 12/38   00:00:00  1461kN
1.b5 Ke7 2.Qc7+ Ke8 3.h5 gxh5 4.Qg7 Qe2 5.Qg6+ Ke7 6.Qf6+ Ke8 7.Qxf5 h4+
  +-  (1.72)   Depth: 12/38   00:00:00  1543kN
1.b5 Ke7 2.Qc7+ Kf8 3.h5 gxh5 4.Kh4 Ke8 5.Qc6+ Ke7 6.g6 d4 7.g7
  +-  (1.43)   Depth: 13/45   00:00:01  2874kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke3 Ke7 4.Kd4 Ke6 5.Kd3 Kf7 6.b5 Kf8 7.Kd4 Kg8 8.Kxd5 Kf7 9.Kc6
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 13/45   00:00:01  3128kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke3 Ke7 4.Kd4 Ke6 5.Kd3 Kf7 6.b5 Kf8 7.Kd4 Kg8 8.Kxd5 Kf7 9.Kc6
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 13/45   00:00:01  3212kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke3 Ke7 4.Ke2 Ke6 5.Kd1 Kd6 6.Kd2 Ke6 7.Kd1
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 14/45   00:00:01  3387kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke3 Ke7 4.Ke2 Ke6 5.Kd1 Kd6 6.Kd2 Ke6 7.Kd1
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 14/45   00:00:01  3571kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke3 Ke7 4.Ke2 Ke6 5.Kd1 Kd6 6.Kd2 Ke6 7.Kd1
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 15/45   00:00:01  3634kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke3 Ke7 4.Ke2 Ke6 5.Kd1 Kd6 6.Kd2 Ke6 7.Kd1
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 15/45   00:00:01  4008kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke3 Ke7 4.Ke2 Ke6 5.b5 Ke7 6.f3 Ke8 7.Kf1 d4 8.Ke2 Kd8
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 16/45   00:00:01  4161kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke3 Ke7 4.Ke2 Ke6 5.b5 Ke7 6.f3 Ke8 7.Kf1 d4 8.Ke2 Kd8
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 16/45   00:00:01  5220kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke3 Ke7 4.Ke2 Ke6 5.Kd1 Kd6 6.Kd2 Ke6 7.Ke2 Kf7 8.Kd3 Ke6 9.Kd4 Kd6 10.Kd3 Ke6
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 17/45   00:00:01  5471kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke3 Ke7 4.Ke2 Ke6 5.Kd1 Kd6 6.Kd2 Ke6 7.Ke2 Kf7 8.Kd3 Ke6 9.Kd4 Kd6 10.Kd3 Ke6
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 17/46   00:00:02  7915kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke2 Ke6 4.Kd2 Kf7 5.Kc2 Ke6 6.Kd3 Kf7 7.Kd2 Ke6 8.Kc2 Kd6 9.Kd3 Ke6 10.Kd4 Kd6 11.Ke3 Ke7 12.Ke2 Ke6
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 18/46   00:00:02  8621kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke2 Ke6 4.Kd2 Kf7 5.Kc2 Ke6 6.Kd3 Kf7 7.Kd2 Ke6 8.Kc2 Kd6 9.Kd3 Ke6 10.Kd4 Kd6 11.Ke3 Ke7 12.Ke2 Ke6
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 18/51   00:00:05  17366kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke2 Ke6 4.Kd2 Kf7 5.Kc2 Ke6 6.Kd3 Kf7 7.f3 Ke6 8.Kd2 Ke7 9.Kd3 Ke6
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 19/51   00:00:05  18144kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke2 Ke6 4.Kd2 Kf7 5.Kc2 Ke6 6.Kd3 Kf7 7.f3 Ke6 8.Kd2 Ke7 9.Kd3 Ke6
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 19/57   00:00:16  58671kN
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kf3 Kf7 3.Ke2 Ke6 4.Kd2 Kf7 5.Kc2 Ke6 6.Kd3 Kd6 7.Kd4 Ke6 8.f3 b5 9.Kc5 d4 10.Kxd4 Kd6 11.Ke3 Ke7 12.h5 Ke6 13.hxg6 Ke7 14.g7 Kf7 15.g8Q+ Ke7
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 20/57   00:00:16  60326kN
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qb8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.Qa7+ Kf8 5.Qc7 Ke8 6.Qc6+ Ke7 7.Qxe6+ Kxe6 8.Kf3 Kd6 9.Ke2 Kd7 10.Kd3 Ke6 11.Kd4 Kd6 12.Kd3 Ke6
  +-  (1.99)   Depth: 20/59   00:00:59  253mN, tb=17
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qb8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.Qa7+ Kf8 5.Qc7 Ke8 6.Qc6+ Ke7 7.Qxe6+ Kxe6 8.Kf3 Ke7 9.Ke3 Kd7 10.Kd4 Kd6 11.Kd3 Ke6 12.Ke3 Ke7 13.Kd2 Ke6 14.Kd3 Ke7 15.Ke3
  +-  (1.99)   Depth: 21/59   00:01:15  322mN, tb=17
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qb8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.Qa7+ Kf8 5.Qc7 Ke8 6.Qc6+ Ke7 7.Qxe6+ Kxe6 8.Kf3 Kd6 9.Ke2 Ke6 10.Kd3 Kd7 11.Ke3 Ke7 12.Kd4 Ke6 13.Kd3
  +-  (2.00)   Depth: 21/61   00:02:37  689mN, tb=29
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qb8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.Qa7+ Kf8 5.Qc7 Ke8 6.Qc6+ Ke7 7.Qxe6+ Kxe6 8.Kf3 Kd6 9.Ke2 d4 10.Kd3 Kd5 11.f3 Kc5 12.h5 Kxb5 13.hxg6 Kc5 14.g7 Kd5 15.g8Q+
  +-  (2.00)   Depth: 21/61   00:02:47  727mN, tb=36
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qb8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.Qa7+ Kf8 5.Qc7 Kg8 6.Kh2 Kf8 7.Qd8+ Kg7 8.Kg3 Kf7 9.Kg2 Qe4+ 10.Kg3 Qe6
  +-  (2.00)   Depth: 22/63   00:06:13  1600mN, tb=210
1.f3 Ke7 2.Qxe6+ Kxe6 3.Kf2 Kd6 4.Kg2 Kd7 5.b5 Kd6 6.Kf1
  +-  (2.01)   Depth: 22/63   00:07:58  2017mN, tb=276
1.f3 Ke7 2.Qxe6+ Kxe6 3.Kf2 Kd6 4.Kg2 Kd7 5.b5 Kd6 6.Kf1 Ke6 7.Ke2 Kf7 8.Kd3 Ke6 9.Kd4 Kd6 10.Kd3 Ke6
  +-  (2.01)   Depth: 22/63   00:08:27  2132mN, tb=297
1.f3 Ke7 2.Qxe6+ Kxe6 3.Kf2 Kd6 4.Kg2 Kd7
  +-  (2.01)   Depth: 23/65   00:09:13  2326mN, tb=399
1.f3 Ke7 2.Qxe6+ Kxe6 3.Kf2 Kd6 4.Kg2 Kd7 5.Kf1 b5 6.Ke2 Ke7
  +-  (2.01)   Depth: 23/65   00:17:55  4378mN, tb=1950
1.f3 b5 2.Qa1 Qe7 3.Kf2 Kg8 4.Qa6 Kh7 5.h5 gxh5 6.Qxb5 Qa7+ 7.Qc5 Qa2+ 8.Ke3 h4 9.Qc7+ Kg6 10.Qc6+ Kg7 11.Qf6+ Kg8 12.Qg6+ Kh8 13.Qh5+ Kg8 14.Qe8+ Kg7 15.Qe5+ Kg8 16.Qxf5 Qa3+ 17.Kd4
  +-  (1.98)   Depth: 24/67   01:02:35  15299mN, tb=8812
1.Qxe6+ Kxe6 2.Kg2 Kf7 3.Kg1 Ke6 4.b5 Ke7 5.f3 d4 6.Kf1 Kf7 7.Ke2 Ke6 8.Kd3 Kd5 9.Kc2 Ke6 10.Kb3 Kd5 11.Kb4 Ke6 12.Kc4 Kd6 13.h5 d3
  +-  (2.01)   Depth: 24/67   01:02:42  15331mN, tb=8812
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.b5 Kf8 3.Qh7 Qf7 4.Qh8+ Ke7 5.h5 gxh5 6.Kh4 Qg6 7.Qe5+ Qe6 8.Qg7+ Qf7 9.Qc3 Qe6 10.Kxh5 Qe2+ 11.Kh6 d4 12.Qc7+ Ke8 13.Qc6+ Ke7 14.Qf6+ Kd7 15.Qxd4+ Ke7 16.Qxb6 Qg4
  +-  (2.71)   Depth: 24/67   01:42:56  24912mN, tb=23005
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.b5 Kf8 3.Qh7 Qf7 4.Qh8+ Ke7 5.h5 gxh5 6.Kh4 Qg6 7.Qe5+ Qe6 8.Qg7+ Qf7 9.Qc3 Qe6 10.Kxh5 Qe2+ 11.Kh6 d4 12.Qc7+ Ke8 13.Qc6+ Ke7 14.Qf6+ Kd7
  +-  (2.71)   Depth: 24/67   01:51:52  26887mN, tb=34678
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.b5 Kf8 3.Qh7 Qf7 4.Qh8+ Ke7 5.h5 gxh5 6.Kh4 Qg6 7.Qe5+ Qe6 8.Qg7+ Qf7 9.Qh8
  +-  (3.02)   Depth: 25/69   02:46:20  39900mN, tb=48641
1.Qc7+ Ke8 2.b5 Kf8 3.Qh7 Qf7 4.Qh8+ Ke7 5.h5 gxh5 6.Kh4 Qg6 7.Qe5+ Qe6 8.Qg7+ Qf7 9.Qh8
  +-  (3.02)   Depth: 25/69   02:48:21  40349mN, tb=50110
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qd8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.h5 gxh5 5.Kh4 Kg6 6.Qc7 d4 7.Qd8 Kh7 8.Qxd4 Qe2 9.Qd7+ Kh8 10.Qxf5 Qxf2+ 11.Kxh5 Qh2+ 12.Kg6 Qg3
  +-  (3.34)   Depth: 26/71   06:02:05  88083mN, tb=122818
1.Qc7+ Kg8 2.Qd8+ Kg7 3.b5 Kf7 4.h5 gxh5 5.Kh4 Kg6 6.Qc7 d4 7.Qd8 Kh7 8.Qxd4 Qe2 9.Qd7+ Kh8 10.Qxf5 Qxf2+ 11.Kxh5 Qh2+ 12.Kg6 Qh7+ 13.Kf6 Qg7+ 14.Ke6 Qf7+ 15.Ke5 Qc7+ 16.Kd4 Qd6+ 17.Ke4 Qb4+ 18.Kf3 Qb3+ 19.Kg2 Kg8 20.Qg6+ Kf8 21.Qxb6 Qd1 22.Kg3
  +-  (3.34)   Depth: 26/71   06:25:35  93596mN, tb=129910
Parent - - By BigBen (****) Date 2010-12-15 08:11
Hi,
    I recieved a PM from a mod:

Hi!

Could you please stop trying to trick the moderation by using different names for clones?

Regards!

I will not publish the name of `the thought police`but also notice my posts have been removed, actually it seems even replies to my so called attempt to `trick the moderation` have been removed well the word pathetic springs to mind but power goes to some peoples head so what can you do :roll: ..... I think his word `stop` annoys me most as if I keep doing it although I do remember once accidently posting a reply meant for `the edge` in the main forum which I apologised for which was many moons ago if I remember correctly.
Parent - - By Labyrinth (*****) Date 2010-12-15 13:41
That's ridiculous.

Trying to trick them? Give me a break.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-12-15 13:58
+1
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2010-12-15 14:19 Edited 2010-12-15 14:22

> Give me a break.


Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2010-12-15 17:50
Well, first, you can name me, it's fine with me ;)

I removed your post because there was at least one case where the formulation you used lead to a user downloading a clone. There's the edge for the clone stuff, I don't care if you post there. But in the public fora you know the policy. We don't like clone talk there, it's not about naming the engines. In the end the forum is paid by the customers and not those who use clones.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-12-16 02:47

> there was at least one case where the formulation you used lead to a user downloading a clone.


Did that person buy Rybka 4? No? Did he use pirate Rybka anyway? Or if he bought Rybka 4, what difference does it make?

Either way, it doesn't make any difference! Moderation just disrupts the forum without reason.
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2010-12-16 16:03 Edited 2010-12-16 16:17

> Either way, it doesn't make any difference! Moderation just disrupts the forum without reason


:lol:

You don't seem to be able to help yourself from "moderating" at every chance you get-

That's a pot calling the kettle black! :razz:
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