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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Rybka 4 to be released end of November
- - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2009-11-13 17:49
http://chessok.com/?p=22964

In the end of November 2009 we plan to release 5 new programs both on DVD and for download. Those are:

Rybka Aquarium 2010, Deep Rybka Aquarium 2010, CT-ART 4.0, Chess for Beginners: Elementary Checkmates I and Chess for Beginners: Elementary Checkmates II.

We intend to give a detailed description of those new programs and to indicate an exact date of release next week.


this was in another thread but i think its worthy of its own.
Parent - - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2009-11-13 17:50
btw it doesnt explicitly say rybka 4 uci will be released; i am making that assumption. i believe that once i start a thread on the official rybka forum stating a release date vas will have no choice but to release it. tactics. :)
Parent - By keoki010 (Silver) Date 2009-11-13 18:45
atta boy, go for it! :lol:
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-11-14 12:45

> btw it doesnt explicitly say rybka 4 uci will be released; i am making that assumption.


I think it would be unwise to make that assumption.  Do you think they just forgot to mention it?  I don't.
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-11-14 17:44
;)
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-11-14 17:51
Is that an amused wink or a knowing wink?  I guess time will tell.
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-11-14 18:52
It's great if someone can read between the lines. :)
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-11-14 20:48
If there isn't a UCI version I flat-out won't buy it.  No value to me without that capability.
Parent - By Aliven (***) Date 2009-11-14 20:52
I don't think he meant that there wouldn't be a Rybka 4 UCI. Simply that it wouldn't be released alongside Aquarium 2010.
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-11-14 20:57
:lol: I thought you understood more than others - but I was wrong :lol:
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-11-14 22:54
Are you kidding?  I know less than the others.  I just hide it well, usually.
Parent - - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-11-15 12:31

> If there isn't a UCI version I flat-out won't buy it.  No value to me without that capability.


Come now Nelson! Just buy the thing. We do buy Fritz even if it is not UCI :)
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-11-15 12:54
Nope.  Seriously, for me the UCI version is the raison d'etre of the whole product.  I don't buy and have never bought Fritz for that reason.  The engine has to be portable to other GUIs otherwise it's useless to me.  But on further reflection it seems inconceivable that they would sell the engine without UCI.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-11-15 12:59
"Rybka is a UCI chess engine programmed by International Master Vasik Rajlich"

That's the first sentence on our website, it says everything :)
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2009-11-15 13:15
Maybe you should change it. Newbies could get the impression that Rybka plays "UCI chess" rather than normal chess. :-p
Parent - By Aliven (***) Date 2009-11-15 14:09
LOL, read my first reply.
Parent - - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2009-11-13 22:33
I would like to know if Vas is going to do his best to give
Rybka4's customers the best rybka that people can get including versions that people can get by piracy.

Note that if I buy rybka4 I do not expect to get something better than what people can get by piracy but I expect not to get something worse.

It means that Vas needs to release an update and send it to rybka4's customers in case that he knows about something that is better than rybka4 that is based on rybka that people can get by piracy.

Uri
Parent - - By Wayne Lowrance (***) Date 2009-11-13 23:12
Gosh, Rybka4, Rybka4, Rybka4. Dag nab it what about we who have Rybka3 and have been waiting for a R3 update. Do you all think it is fair Rybka4 comeout with R3 update ?
Wayne
Parent - By Wayne Lowrance (***) Date 2009-11-13 23:13
I mean B4 R3 update
Wayne
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-11-14 02:57
Fair or unfair, without previous R3+ I don´t buy Rybka 4.
Parent - - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2009-11-14 00:33
are you talking about the [deleted] controversy? didnt it take them a year+ just to clone + tweak rybka 3? i dont really know how its done, but it wouldnt seem to be much of a concern would it? throw in the fact that the clones thus far have absolutely no basic analysis features & i wouldnt worry too much about future deleteds effecting business. its not as if improving a finished rybka product by 50 elo can be done in a matter of weeks, it takes vas himself months working round the clock. for a bunch of amateurs? well so far they may have improved the strength some but its not a viable chess engine imo. no mpv, no multicore, & its closing in on 1.5 years since rybka 3 was released. though like i said, i have no idea how or how long they were working on it. but im not sure why it should be a major concern.
Parent - - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2009-11-14 02:46
No need to reverse engineer rybka4 to have something stronger than rybka4.
They can simply only improve [deleted].

Uri
Parent - - By Geomusic (*****) Date 2009-11-14 02:54
uri is right. The chess programming public at large now has a huge advantage with the available source code from said engine. I suspect many super strong engines of like kind in the near future.
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-11-14 03:01
So begin to work on your engine and don´t troll in fora!
Parent - By Geomusic (*****) Date 2009-11-14 03:18
copying someone else work isn't fulfilling to me even if it means 500 elo points the self-satisfaction of having done my own homework would be all the more sweet. Not sure what you meant by trolling?
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-11-14 03:06

>They can simply only improve [deleted].


We will see, if they are able to do it!
Parent - - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2009-11-14 04:31
yes, i dont know for certain that they can improve it much. if they can, i doubt it will be able to reach rybka 4 levels before several months, even a year. lets give them an equal starting point (say rybka 4 is only 50 elo better than rybka 3): who would you put your money on? vas, a professional chess programmer who has demonstrated himself to be easily best in class for 4 years running now, who actually wrote the code we're talking about, or a bunch of hobbyist amateurs who just cracked that code & tweaked it a bit? like i said, i fail to see how its really an issue.
Parent - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2009-11-14 06:11
I guess that Vas is going to have better rybka at the same time.
It does not mean that they are not going to have something better than rybka4 with 6 months delay
and the fact that Vas is going to have Rybka4.5 that is better is not going to help the customers in case that they only have rybka4.

Uri
Parent - - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2009-11-14 06:27 Edited 2009-11-14 06:30
We are going to see if they can do it but this is not something that seems impossible and I think that the customers of rybka4 should know if they can get an update to rybka at least in case that they have success in improving [deleted] to be stronger than rybka4(in that case Vas can choose if to send the customers Rybka4.x or simply to send the customers the exe file of [deleted])

Uri
Parent - - By Leto (***) Date 2009-11-14 07:18
I think the problem is that distributing these free updates may not be feasible for busy companies like ChessOk and Chessbase who survive by distributing paid content, and with so many customers it'd be impossible for Vas to send the updates by himself.
Parent - - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2009-11-14 08:08
Vas does not need to send the update by email and giving a link when people who bought rybka can download from it is also
an acceptable solution.

Uri
Parent - - By Leto (***) Date 2009-11-14 19:13
How would the link work?  Would customers have to enter a code?  If so that'd require distributing a large amount of emails which is what I think caused Vas to stop releasing incremental updates.  If no code is required then someone can just send the download link to pirates.
Parent - - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2009-11-14 20:01
Customers can enter a code and I see no problem with it.

I think that it was a mistake of Vas to stop releasing incremental updates.
If Vas has many customers then
Vas does not need to send the emails by himself and other people can do it for him for some money that is only a small part of the money that he earns from selling rybka.

People who bought the interface(aquarium) could get incremental updates so I see no reason that it is going to be different for people who get the engine.

Uri
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-11-15 01:14
I agree, some bugs might have been fixed with the incremental updates (for a fact, the "using a lot more ram than specified by core" bug, and perhaps the "Write Depth = Play Depth" bug of Persistent Hash), so not having them and then not having a R3+ yet, was sad.
Parent - - By Loboestepario (****) Date 2009-11-15 16:15
Would you have demanded something similar if the clone release had occurred soon after R3? In that case would you have wanted to delay work on R4 to meet that demand?

I think Vas has to focus only on his work and not on what the pirates do.
Parent - - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2009-11-15 17:51
I do not ask Vas to delay working on rybka.
I only ask him to give me the best engine that people can get in case that he can do it.

I am using rybka for correspondence games and I plan to pay in order to get better or equal tool relative to my opponents in the software part.

I do not like to have an inferior tool only because one of my opponents download some illegal program that is based on rybka and Vas does not send me an update inspite of having something better than the illegal program.

Uri
Parent - - By Loboestepario (****) Date 2009-11-15 18:36
You should pay for a product, in this case Rybka 4.
What your opponent does or how he does it is not part of the deal.
Why do you think the clone is already better than Rybka4 if there has not been a release yet?
Chances are Rybka will continue to be the best engine for a long time.
Parent - - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2009-11-15 19:10
I do not think that the clone is already better than rybka4.
I think that it may be better than rybka4 some months after the release of rybka4.

I do not want to search in the internet for illegal engines in order to get the best engine that people can get by piracy.

I think that it is clearly unfair if people who pay to buy the best chess engine get inferior product relative to people who use piracy
and Vas should do his best to prevent this situation.

Note that the claim that I pay for a product without caring about other engines is not correct.
An engine is always something relative to other engines

People are not going to pay today for Fritz5 because there are better engines.
Less people are going to buy rybka4 in case that they believe that there are going to be better engines few months after the release of rybka4 when they do not get an update.

Uri
Parent - By Kappatoo (*****) Date 2009-11-15 19:26
Mabe it is unfair if a Rybka clone is better than Rybka. But what you say sounds like you blame Vas for this, and think he is responsible to avoid such a situation. This view strikes me as quite bizarre.
Parent - By Loboestepario (****) Date 2009-11-15 19:32
I think that demanding faster updates without knowing for sure that they will be needed is a waste of time.
Parent - By Androcles (**) Date 2009-11-14 01:18
Timing is consistent with my "vision" published on another thread this morning (see below) now we'll see if the fine prints hold (Launch party)

-----------------

Assuming my theory holds, we could have

Leiden Oct 16-18 -> play with the tentative release version.

Oct 19-31 -> Leiden debriefing, ultimate bugs correction and parameters tweaking, freeze of the new opening book.
Integration in the various versions (Rybka personalities(?))

Nov 1 -> Codebase frozen, distribution for integration by Chessbase (Fritz 12 interface) and Convekta (Aquarium).

November -> Solve possible late issues with Chessbase and Convekta, work on branding.

Nov 30 or Dec 1 -> Triple simultaneous announcement (Chessbase, here, Convekta).
A big boat will be rented, a party organized, and in between 2 representatives (1 from Chessbase, 1 from Convekta) Vas will symbolically launch a very living fish (Rybka) in the sea, probably the the Baltic Sea.  Then everybody will rejoice with Champagne!
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Rybka 4 to be released end of November

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