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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Vas bound to be tight lips, but Rybka 4 imminent IMHO.
- - By Androcles (**) Date 2009-11-11 11:00 Edited 2009-11-11 11:12
This is my theory

When Vas signed with Chessbase, a clause of the contract stipulated Chessbase being the sole commercial partner entitled to formally announce and then brand any forthcoming Rybka version up to contract termination.

Therefore, Vas abided not to give any specific release date, informations or even clues, by any means (and here 10 lines of legalese) giving away such marketing data.

Now we know that usually Chessbase is releasing new products announcement on their Website up to 2 weeks before actual availability.
It is all too logical to have Rybka 4 made available for Christmas. Add to this at least 10 provisional days for processing and dispatching orders. We can then expect real availability starting from December 14nd.

As a conclusion I'm expecting a simultaneous announcement from Chessbase and from Vas here, no sooner than November 30nd but not later than December 1nd.

That's a pretty precise release date and pretty close too, no?

On the other hand, would that date slip, I'm afraid we'll have to dream of Rybka 4 as, maybe, a special Easter egg escaping from the shore. ;-)

PS to the webmaster. I tried to upload my avatar (me with my beloved lion) but here is what I got from the server
"Avatar filling failed. Exception 395: unable to access configure file `colors.xml' @ configure.c/GetConfigureOptions/553"
My lion is roaring out of anger, please help!
Parent - - By Fulcrum2000 (****) Date 2009-11-11 11:15

> When Vas signed with Chessbase, a clause of the contract stipulated Chessbase being the sole commercial partner entitled to formally announce and then brand any forthcoming Rybka version up to contract termination.


Vas already indicated Rybka 4 will (like Rybka 3) be sold by both Chessbase and Convekta.
Parent - By Androcles (**) Date 2009-11-11 11:18
Ok, then let's speak about "duopolistic non concurrence agreement" here, including Convekta website for announcement.
Parent - By RangeFinder (**) Date 2009-11-11 15:26
I hate Chessbase.  I wouldn't buy another program from them if they were the last chess company on Earth.  Thank god for Convekta.
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-11-11 16:44
:lol: conspiracy theories are always funny - but I thought they were more common in the middle east than in Switzerland. :lol:
Parent - - By oudheusa (*****) Date 2009-11-11 17:57 Edited 2009-11-11 18:00
Have you ever been to Switzerland? :) :)
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-11-11 19:19
Yes, several times. Food is superb but not cheap. Cost of living is high. Sales taxes are low :) Watches are great. Wine is really good. A nice place to live ;)
Parent - - By oudheusa (*****) Date 2009-11-11 19:24
Food is superb...

Have you ever been to Belgium or France? :) :) :)
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-11-11 19:34
Yes, of course. But if you doubt that Swiss food is great - you should go there and try it. Btw. the most expensive meal in my life I had (together with my wife) was in Bruxelles. It was really good :) - but cost a fortune :(
Parent - By oudheusa (*****) Date 2009-11-11 19:43
ofcourse i have been to switserland but obviously to the wrong places, the raclette is great but no comparison to belgium or french cuising imo.
Parent - - By George Tsavdaris (****) Date 2009-11-12 10:15 Edited 2009-11-12 10:20

>Have you ever been to Belgium or France? :-) :-) :-)


I think you all miss the point. Have you ever gone to Greece?
"Pita Giros" is a good thing to start. :-P
Parent - By oudheusa (*****) Date 2009-11-12 20:55
Yes, the fresh caught calamari beats all the Swiss (and Dutch) food easily!!
Parent - By Bouddha (****) Date 2009-11-11 20:24
Welcome to Switzerland :-)
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-11-12 06:03
Sure, but how big are the cars that they drive? :-D
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-11-12 09:34
Bigger than in Germany and much more expensive than in the USA ;)
Parent - By Bouddha (****) Date 2009-11-12 11:13
Not sure this is accurate..... :-)
Parent - - By Androcles (**) Date 2009-11-11 18:53
Hey, we have our share of muslims (about 500'000 out of 7M people). No pun intented since I have some very good friends among them.
However, there is some tension looming on the horizon, see e.g. this
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2009-11-12 12:49
I think that if the Muslims tried a large-scale attack against Switzerland, Mecca and Medina would be razed to the ground almost instantly.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-11-12 20:08
In one of his statements Vas said the announcement won't be what you expect, so whatever you think, it's wrong ;)

(even if you expect that it's not what you expect, you are wrong :-D)
Parent - - By Debaser (***) Date 2009-11-12 20:34
Have you already finished the beta testing of Rybka 4? ;)
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-11-12 20:34
would you expect that? ;)
Parent - By Debaser (***) Date 2009-11-12 20:44
For the expected Christmas release, I suppose that yes :)

Convekta and Chessbase should need some time for themselves with a more or less finished engine. Assuming new analysis features are added ;)
Parent - By RangeFinder (**) Date 2009-11-12 22:28
:-p
Parent - By Androcles (**) Date 2009-11-13 09:18 Edited 2009-11-13 09:22
Assuming my theory holds, we could have

Leiden Oct 16-18 -> play with the tentative release version.

Oct 19-31 -> Leiden debriefing, ultimate bugs correction and parameters tweaking, freeze of the new opening book.
Integration in the various versions (Rybka personalities(?))

Nov 1 -> Codebase frozen, distribution for integration by Chessbase (Fritz 12 interface) and Convekta (Aquarium).

November -> Solve possible late issues with Chessbase and Convekta, work on branding.

Nov 30 or Dec 1 -> Triple simultaneous announcement (Chessbase, here, Convekta).
A big boat will be rented, a party organized, and in between 2 representatives (1 from Chessbase, 1 from Convekta) Vas will symbolically launch a very living fish (Rybka) in the sea, probably the the Baltic Sea.  Then everybody will rejoice with Champagne!
:) :) :)
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-11-13 00:05

> (even if you expect that it's not what you expect, you are wrong :-D)


More precisely, the announcement will be both what we expect and what we don't expect at the same time :)
Parent - - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2009-11-15 20:15
as long as we're speculating vas said he has some awesome, simple solution to copyright issues that benefits everyone involved...any guess as to what he's talking about?
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-11-15 22:03
Vas also promised that R3 would be totally immune to reverse engineering...
Parent - - By Fulcrum2000 (****) Date 2009-11-15 23:48
Do you have a quote of that?
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-11-16 03:43
I was hoping that people would do their own search, but just for you...
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-11-16 04:55 Edited 2009-11-16 04:59
My favorite is this thread.

First post from Vas:
Has Rybka been slowed down to prevent decompilation?
No. We have a much better way to deal with this issue - just wait a bit and you'll see :-)

The thread becomes interesting with this post.

And the highlights at the end:
First Vas: For normal piracy, wait until Rybka 4 - we've got this all planned out! :-)
Answer Juri Osipov: It is signed that with releasing of Rybka 4, Vas will release sources of Rybka 3.
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-11-16 05:12
Thanks. That is the thread I was really looking for.
Parent - - By Fulcrum2000 (****) Date 2009-11-16 13:12

> I was hoping that people would do their own search, but just for you...


Is this another way of saying Vas never claimed such a thing?

I have read many posts by Vas claiming things, but never ever have seen a post of him claiming he solved/prevented reverse engineering
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-11-16 15:02
OK, this is true, but he had much more more than justifiable confidence in his "solution" (which I assume had something to do with the executable being so large and sparse). At one point I thought he might be right (because there is no profit motive here) but I failed to anticipate the talented people that would be willing to spend lots of time and effort on this endeavor with no monetary payback. I guess this is probably good for society as these people might otherwise be robbing banks or doing other, more sinister, things...
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-11-16 04:16
OK, looks like I exagerated... :-O

For some reason, the first Vas message is my favorite! :-D

Strongest engine in 2012?   Vasik Rajlich   2007-11-05 12:27
Alan is right, I don't do this in Rybka. I guess the reason for it in Strelka is to minimize the .exe similarities with Rybka, which would otherwise be extremely high.

Generally, I have to admit that reverse engineering Rybka is a lot more feasible than I expected. For Rybka 3, I'll try to make it more difficult.

Vas

Rybka 3 FAQ   Vasik Rajlich   2008-08-12 11:27
I certainly don't claim that Rybka is impossible to RE. Just wait and see :-)

Vas

Strelka = Rybka 1.0   Vasik Rajlich   2007-07-13 23:34
Thanks.

For Rybka 3, I will look into some stronger defensive measures.

Fortunately, I've been told that Rybka 1.0 is much easier to disassemble than subsequent Rybka versions. I am quite confident that Rybka 3 can be made extremely hard for others to read. Rybka 2.3.2 is already out and I should have taken better measures, but that's life - we just have to move ahead.

Vas

Deep Blue 1997 vs. Rybka 3.0 on Intel QX9770   Vasik Rajlich   2008-05-20 05:35

    > However, a 20% Rybka slowdown might be worth decompilers needing 20% more time to accomplish their work.

I don't mean some sort of automatic scrambling method. It's more a matter of coding things in a way which is harder to understand. I've put a good amount of thought into this topic and as with most problems, you can eventually make pretty good progress (without coming anywhere near "solving" it).

Vas

A Problem with All Versions of Rybka...   Vasik Rajlich   2008-04-14 06:16
Yes, I also looked into this stuff and what you say is true.

However, a 20% Rybka slowdown might be worth decompilers needing 20% more time to accomplish their work.

Vas

How secure is the source code of Rybka?   Vasik Rajlich   2007-07-30 02:43
I believe that a straight decompile is a trivial step if you're willing to have meaningless variable names and all kinds of crud from various compiler optimizations like inlining, etc. Some language features like templates will also create a mess.

In fact, though, I've never tried it.

Vas

How secure is the source code of Rybka?   Vasik Rajlich   2007-06-07 02:08
You could decompile Rybka (trivial) and change some program values which change the style without destroying the playing strength (quite difficult).

This leaves you with a very easy-to-detect clone.

You could also (in theory) decompile Rybka and figure out what exactly she's doing. Just imagining this gives me a headache :-)

Vas
Parent - By r_y_b_k_a_f_a_n (*) Date 2009-11-15 19:54
if ur theory is anything to go by, im happy, i win $10,000
- - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-11-11 20:56
Vas said that he has NOT delayed Rybka 4 for business reasons.

Now let the "But Vas isn't a neutral source!" arguments start :-P
Parent - By staylor (***) Date 2009-11-12 09:45
Let's hope that either it is for good product reasons, or, SINCE there is some other issue, he is using the delayed time to improve Rybka 4 even more.
Parent - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-11-12 13:08

> Vas said that he has NOT delayed Rybka 4 for business reasons.


Is he still fixing BU? :)
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Vas bound to be tight lips, but Rybka 4 imminent IMHO.

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