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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Rybka Warriors
- - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-17 21:49
we may have a big game starting later this year.details will follow after i have consulted Vytron who i propose as will be 48hr/move as in previous would be nice to round up you guys again.we have the strongest team in computer chess as we include OTB GM's and IM.s
Parent - - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2009-10-17 22:40
I'll be there.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-17 22:58
i know,like old times.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-17 23:38
I'm ready, and I'd like to propose Paul as Vice-Captain :)
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-17 23:44
very nice,but i would be quite happy with Bobby C as vice captain.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-17 23:47
i would like turbo also ,but he has no free time.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-18 01:32

> i would be quite happy with Bobby C as vice captain.

Me too, a good choice if he isn't too busy with Fantasy Football.
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-10-18 17:20
Yeah, count me in, though I feel certain that it'll be another damnable draw.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-19 04:52
What about 24/h move? Many corr games on Rybka Forum have ended on a decisive result due to faster time control (being stronger is more apparent.)
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-19 15:55
best to play 2 games at once at 48/hr time control.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-20 04:14

> best to play 2 games at once at 48/hr time control.

Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-19 08:03
Who will be the oppo?
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-19 15:11
Highendman has agreed to play Rybka forum team when match against Hiarcs forum is over.
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-19 15:39
Very interesting - when do you think this will start?
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-11-01 14:43
I sent Bobby a quick message this morning with my suggested match rules. While my recently concluded match vs. the Headbangers had almost no rules defined, I believe the below would make sense with my recent enhanced understanding of how these matches could run.

I'm ready to start as soon as my esteemed opponents accept the conditions and say they are ready - as soon as today :)

In a nutshell - what I suggested for the Warriors to review via Bobby were:

1. Make/break point for me: Two (2) games in parallel however at a 24/h per move time control, not 48/h per move.
2. Some suggested guideline on 'time out' policy - I suggest each team my ask for up to 3 time-outs during the match (though I'm the more likely candidate who'll need that due to work / travel commitments) and how this should be regulated. E.g. that the party requesting time-out must do that before the other party makes a move - so the other party gains more clock time until the party requesting the t/o is back -> to not have a perceived situation of one party having received the other party move first, and then opting for time-out to gain more analysis time.
3. Time forfeit conditions - following the unfortunate Headbangers game conclusion - removing the option to decide if a flag loses from the respective players. I don't expect either party to flag, however I don't want to be again in a position where my opponents flag and I need to excuse that, and then get another flag. We all know - shit happens - but let's regulate that in advance. A time flag irrespective of circumstances or extent loses automatically and neither party can accept a flag and instead allow a game to continue. For t/c basis only a move posted to the game thread and according to the forum clock counts as a a move played - nothing else.
4. 'Secret' game thread: the Warriors team commitment that all your internal exchange during the match happens *only* in a secret thread to which I'll get access post game so I can review this for my own curiosity & education. In exchange I offered running a similar thread capturing my own analysis / thoughts in real time, on another forum if that could be technically arranged, to be opened to the Warriors post match for the same visibility.
5. Game threads: only your captain / vice-captain are allowed to post moves / comments for the Warriors and the Capitan / vice-captain must be identified before the match starts and can not change mid-way the match (including rehashing captain / vice-captain user ID/password to other team members which is not allowed). Moves posted by your other team members to the game thread will not count for any purpose.
6. Team structure: I play solo - no consultation allowed with any other human - however I may use any h/w & s/w and I do not need to disclose exact h/w & s/w I'm using before or after the game. The Warriors team may have anything and anyone, so long as all correspondence / analysis is communicated only via your secret forum.
7. When the captain / vice captain post your moves you also indicate the number of active votes for that position. I.e. not the split or how close the vote was god forbid, only how many active votes were tallied by your team for that position - e.g. 13. a4 (19 active votes). This should not disclose any information to me on alternatives or anything, however it will make it more interesting for me and for non Warriors team members who may be following the game.

I look forward to your acceptance and GAME(S) ON! And adopting the rhetoric that seem to characterize some of the Warriors team members, only once here (as this is not my usual style hehe) -I promise I'll do my best to make the Warriors team coming loss fun for all :)
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-11-01 15:54
it was me,you sent message to not Bobby(unless you send PM to both of us) which i forwarded to Vytron.the only thing the team might have a problem with is 24hr time control with 2 games running at once.lets see general reaction to this.all other conditions seem ok by me

regards Paul
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-11-01 18:04
Sorry Paul :( yes, I meant you and wrote Booby.
Looking forward to your team's decision. Cheers.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-11-01 22:24
Vytron and myself have accepted your conditions on behalf of Rybka team,although as you are aware i have grave resevations about 2 games at once at 24hr/move time controls.we now await Dadi setting up necessary threads.the earliest i see games starting is wednesday or thursday.our team will need to talk in private about our tactics before match starts and until the threads are set up nothing can be done.whenever we start the first moves by each team will be made at 1200 GMT.lets hope for 2 exciting games which will enrich chess theory.

any player who wishes to join team,and has not already mentioned this fact.PM Vytron who is going to be a very busy boy.

regards Paul
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-11-01 22:32
This is very much appreciated. I'm very excited about this upcoming match and hope to put to good use my lessons learned from the Headbangers match.

It would be ironic (and funny) if it turns out 2 games in parallel @ this t/c would be more than I could handle and you'll wipe the floor with me consequently ;)

I take it your team is fine with the other suggested guidelines? Anything missing on the match conditions you may want to add?

I look forward to starting both games when you hit the gong.

Kind regards,
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-11-01 22:41
only to reafirm that any move posted by Vytron or myself is final.i expect Vytron will post all moves and i will only come into play to avoid a default.Vytron lives in Mexico and
server probs can occur.
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-11-01 22:50
Well if the going gets rough I'll need to hack the power companies near where you and Vytron live at a the right point.
It has worked before ;)

Le guerre cu le guerre
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-11-01 23:14 Edited 2009-11-01 23:17
as you can see we have now set up a match thread.i propose match starts wednesday at 1200 GMT.this will give us time to get a full team play black in game 1 this is an edit
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-11-01 23:35
Works for me. I see you initially wanted to be White on game 2 and edited to game 1 - I'm fine either way.
Sorry I couldn't find the game threads you mentioned; maybe a cache problem on my end or I'm looking in the wrong place? I'll check again tomorrow morning.
Looking forward to Wednesday - thanks again for both offering and accepting this match. I expect a lot of uncompromising fun from all of us and for all of us.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-11-01 23:45
i have a query regarding time you described it.this is fine for one game but games will get out of sync it always happens.what is your solution to this.our match thread is bottom thread on main page.we have subdivided this,but of course you cannot see this.
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-11-02 00:00
Good point . I only needed one time-out during the headbangers match; I requested (iirc) it while it was the other team move on both games, however they still responded within their t/c as the conditions weren't clearly defined. I suppose an improvement to the suggested t/o policy would be that the party requesting it must have at least one game where the move is at the hands of the other party at the time of requesting a t/o and make 'commercialy resonable' effort to move on the other game as well before the t/o commences.

Example: we're at move 21 in game one (your move), and 19 on game two (my move).
I learn I need a t/o. As soon as I know that I let you know - i.e. give you my return date. At that point in time your clock 'stops' on game one (where it's still your move) and the your clock restarts on the time-out end date provided - where you have the remainder of the time you had before the t/o request happened. In addition, I need to make every reasonable effort to make my move on game 2 before the t/o starts. After I play my move on game 2, while you are free to analyse, your clock will begin only when the t/o period announced is over, at which time you'll have the full 24 hours.

As I'm the more likely candidate to have to request such a t/o, I'm trying to engineer the conditions in a way that is most fair for the other party.

The only caveat, and that's why I had the lawyer friendly 'commercially reasonable' term, is that there's always the off chance I need to go to some unfriendly foreign state at a couple of hours notice :) Has happened before. In which case it would complicate matters.

However I have full confidence in the sportsmanship of your team and my own ethic - I'm sure that should this unlikely scenario happen we'll find a way to handle that as well - unless if you feel more comfortable in defining some iron clad mechanism for this eventuality in advance as well.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-11-02 00:12
i will work all this out tomorrow,however my thinking was as you enforced 24hr move,we could use this to our advantage in a critical position.i speak for myself on this however you appear to have dictated all the match rules in these games which does not normally happen LOL
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-11-02 00:56
the juggernaut is slowly beginning to roll and will hopefully crush you.trash talking starts here.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-11-02 01:04
Kappatoo are the GM,s in your German league team going to join Rybka team against HEM.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-11-02 01:07
sorry Kappatoo i meant to post this in secret thread.
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-11-02 01:17
lol :)

You should use the [trash_talk] ... [/trash_talk] tags, as well as the advanced version [scare_and_FUD_tactic_message] ... [/scare_and_FUD_tactic_message] inside these posts hehe.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-11-02 01:23
you are too clever for but in the team Kappatoo plays for he is the onlyone who is not a OTB GM.he will confirm this.
Parent - By Kappatoo (*****) Date 2009-11-02 08:48
Almost - there was one IM. I actually play for a different club now, but still the same scenario: In the first two rounds, my team consisted of 6 GMs, one IM, and me.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-11-02 15:51
Good point (HEM)
everything will be ok i am sure, it's hardly World War 3.
Parent - - By oudheusa (*****) Date 2009-11-01 22:40
this is a highly challenging time control, especially if two games are played simultaniously and if you count the time required for some joint analysis and decision making.

i am still busy finishing some corr games, so i don't think i can be of much help right now, especially at the given pace.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-11-01 22:46
i have also expressed same reservations,however Vytron is keen for game to go ahead and i have reluctantly agreed to these time controls as HEM will not budge.
Parent - - By oudheusa (*****) Date 2009-10-19 18:52
depends on when it starts; i have some corr games going and would like for us to have R4 available

but in priniciple yes, shoud be fun!
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-19 20:17
how long is a piece of string,maybe 4 weeks?
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-20 04:14

> would like for us to have R4 available

Having R4 around only means less chances of a decisive game.
Parent - - By Ricky (***) Date 2009-10-20 13:50
Count me!
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-27 00:20
i am still unsure of when this game will start,for joining the team contact Vytron.this does not apply to usual suspects.before game starts our Captain Vytron will give a list of team players.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-30 23:53
is our team ready to may start earlier than i anticipated.dont ask.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-31 00:08
has Bobby C agreed to be vice-captain to prevent cockups on time control.if not as i lve in Europe i could help out.
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-10-31 00:43
Is this thing starting soon? I think I would not do good as a captain until after football season.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-31 00:58
ok Vytron Captain,me vice captain,at least until you are free.i have asked Vytron to set up secret message to HEM we are different to Hiarcs forum team.not quite so democratic or so it may seem at the moment, and hopefully will be able to match you on hardware.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-31 01:12
***Vytron puts on his captain hat.

“We know, and he knows, that we can beat him.”
Parent - - By chessorpoker (**) Date 2009-10-31 01:28
i would like to join the team, i have loads of novelties just waiting for action...
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-31 01:52
as long as they are sound,you will have a fair crack of the whip.
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