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- - By Geomusic (*****) Date 2009-10-13 08:44
the thought of it keeps me up at night. :)
Parent - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-10-13 08:50
I tried to be patient, until I lost patience :)

Everytime I visit the site, I have hope that when I go to the Rybka section, I will find Vas' post say 'Rybka 4 release date', unfortunately not.

By the way, where is Vas? :)
Parent - By onursurme (***) Date 2009-10-13 12:18
Add me to the list of those exhausted.
I don't find it gentle.
I hope Vas will need me for something, be sure he will wait toooo long without any any explanation :)
Parent - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2009-10-13 17:21
why? rybka 3 is still far & away the strongest engine. the longer we wait, the more we get.

with that said, if it's not out by the end of the month -- we grab the torches, find him & lynch him.

:)
Parent - - By oudheusa (*****) Date 2009-10-13 20:49
It will be before X-mas surely.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-13 22:51
doubt it.all this seems like deja vu.
Parent - - By George Tsavdaris (****) Date 2009-10-14 13:24
I believe it will be around Arpil 2010 but i'm maybe wrong and it will be later on.

I think that Rybka 3 was so strong that Vas will have problems to create another version with at least 80 ELO more than R3. I think the 80 ELO limit will be reached around February or so, so April sounds a logical date of release before it gets cleaned up.

  A Rybka 4 version less than 60 ELO for example would bring the first turbulences on the hard core Rybka fans and if this continues with newest Rybka's(i believe ELO improvement for Rybka from now on will be more and more difficult to achieve, not because Rybka 3 has no room for improvement, on the contrary, but because i think we are on a point(like in F8,S8 time) where one can not improve on Rybka 3 too much until some new good ideas arise) then Rybka's fame and publicity will start to fall rapidly.
So i think Vas is too clever and will avoid this, so he would release the new Rybkas only when he has considerable improvement and that would take more than a year for sure.
Parent - By Gaмßito (****) Date 2009-10-15 20:20

> i think we are on a point(like in F8,S8 time) where one can not improve on Rybka 3 too much until some new good ideas arise) then Rybka's fame and publicity will start to fall rapidly.


Same thing was said with Rybka 2.3.2a and before Rybka 3 arrive. A 100 elo improvement over 2.3.2a version was unimaginable!

Now, Rybka 3 is 14 months old, and although I know that each time is more difficult to improve Rybka, I still believe that an improvement of about 80 or 100 points over Rybka 3 is perfectly possible. Vas practically works full time in Rybka, so please don't underestimate the great Vas now! :-)

I think Rybka's fame will NOT fall while it continues being the number one, not even a little. Rybka's reign seems safe, its throne doesn't wobble easily.

Regards,
Gaмßito.
Parent - - By tigershark (**) Date 2009-10-14 08:28
There are 2 possible options:

1. Rybka 4 is being developed and will be out when it's ready. Nobody knows when that is

2. Vas has given up on Rybka for a bit and is having a break.  There is nothing to suggest that is the case.

In the meatime, what is it about Rybka 3 that people are so unhappy with that they must have Rybka 4?  If everyone else has Rybka 3 there is no disadvantage by Rybka 4 not being out? Rybka 3 is perfectly good for analysing games i.e. what's the problem with waiting?
Parent - By Quapsel (****) Date 2009-10-14 09:19

> 1. Rybka 4 is being developed and will be out when it's ready. Nobody knows when that is


1.a) Rybka 4 is being developed and it will come very soon. (F12 and S12 are out, R4 waiting for what?)
1.b) Rybka 4 is not being developed and will be out when it's ready. Nobody knows when that is.

Quap
(I don't know)
Parent - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-10-26 21:26
Maybe the delay is because Vas is still struggling to fit in the BU into Rybka 4. I have a feeling that this hasn't been done yet. I saw in another post by Kullberg that he was not going to test the BU position.

Could this be one of the reasons for the delay, and the Frankenstein of course?
- By Steffelino (**) Date 2009-10-13 08:57
Nobody ask for Rybka 3+ anymore! why?
Vas had that one as a promise "not too far away" early this year.
What went wrong?
I as a customer want to know now!
Please Vas clarify a little at least.
- - By fly0die Date 2009-10-13 12:07
It wont be far fetched to assume Vas is no different to the suicide bomber, both extremist!!!
You owe all rybka users an explanation, do it quick.
To keep us all holding our balls, really suks, Vas
Parent - - By Quibbly34 (*) Date 2009-10-13 12:42
Interference from Chessbase aside, let Rybka 4 be released when Vas thinks its ready!

I share your frustration - but in the end, no news is hopefully good news & Vas will stun us all once again. We could always use the waiting time to improve our own chess?!
Parent - - By Quapsel (****) Date 2009-10-13 13:20

> let Rybka 4 be released when Vas thinks its ready!


Yes!
And if there are real problems, I whish that these problems are cleared, when R4 comes out.
It's Vas who has to earn less Rybka-Money today. So he will have thought about how to do best.

But perhaps he really could have had time to give us R3+ several months ago.
:-(
That would have given a nice toy to us impatient kids.

Quap
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-13 15:38
There are no real problems :)
Maybe you know that good old German proverb: Gut Ding will Weile haben. ;)

Regards,
Lukas
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-10-13 16:35
"Good things take time" right?
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-10-13 16:41
richtig :)
Parent - - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-10-13 17:51

> richtig :-)


Wow! this sounds like Afrikaans "rigtig" :)
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-10-13 17:56
It must be Boerish! The Dutch can´t speak German correctly! :-)
Parent - By oudheusa (*****) Date 2009-10-13 20:47
Hmm the German's Dutch is not too fluent as well :)
Parent - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-14 12:25
You should talk to Jeroen - then you'll find out that you are completely wrong ;)
Parent - By Henrik Dinesen (***) Date 2009-10-18 09:46
Wouldn't know about that, but it's surely danish.
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-10-13 17:53
I see fundamental translation error! :-) We are speaking about the only unique good thing! Plural is forbidden here!
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-13 17:53
Well, in the region where I was born they also say: nur net hudle :)
( the first one was way too easy ;) )
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-10-13 18:06
Better for our English speaking friends: No net hudle (book from Imanuel Stutzmann).
Parent - - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-10-13 17:49

> There are no real problems :-)


Lukas, at least if we hear words like these from you we can be calm. At least the words come from the reliable  source, unlike waiting in the darkness. :)
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-10-13 20:38
But maybe what he really means is:

There are no real problems if you have nine octal i7 computers working in a cluster. :-D
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-13 22:55
how many versions so far,and in your opinion can we expect 50 elo.dont worry if you decline to reply.this question was for Lukas.i pressed wrong button.
Parent - By Quapsel (****) Date 2009-10-14 06:42

> There are no real problems


Nice to hear this. :-)

> Gut Ding will Weile haben


I remember, when Rybka 2.3x came out.
The last version was very good. But he first seemed to be not ready developed.
It's a good Idea not to do again in this way.

R3 didn't solve all whishes, and these whishes aren't solved until now. Not fine, but OK.
But R3 was a very strong an stable version right from the first day on. That was really good!

Quap
Parent - - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-10-13 13:23

> It wont be far fetched to assume Vas is no different to the suicide bomber, both extremist!!!


Should we give him until month end? Maybe he should not hang too long in the forum next time. He must only hang in the forum for only 2 months after the release of R4. After 2 months he must start working on Rybka 5. I wonder if he will give us the crazy personality he was talking about :)
Parent - - By Michael Hart (***) Date 2009-10-13 16:14
Let's give him till November 1 and then if there is still no announcement we call sidserious.
Parent - - By Fulcrum2000 (****) Date 2009-10-13 16:54
or Jessica ;-)
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-10-13 18:06
Jessica only after the release! :-)
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-13 22:58
no Jessica or Robert.please.he may be a friend of mine but he drives us all crazy with his poetry.
Parent - - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-10-13 17:45
Heeey! Where are those guys Sidserious and Jessica?  Maybe if Sid was still posting Vas could have come out from where is hiding by now :)

Sidserious and Jessica must start posting again :)
Parent - - By vroger007 (**) Date 2009-10-13 18:27
I am considering skipping R4 (and maybe more): I, for one, am not interested in another 5 elo points,
I'm only interested in analysing games. Though I do not have a lot of concrete evidence (yet),
I have the feeling that R2.3.2a was way better in analysis (blunder check). R3 seems to give (perhaps regularly)
"better" moves where "you" (i.e. Rybka!) end up losing a minor piece after only 2 plies or so...
Also, R3 gives a comment ("better move" annotation) on about 30 to 60 % of the moves in a game whereas R232a gave
comments only on about 10 to 30¨% of the moves, with the same threshold.
I'm a bit suspicious, and at the same time a bit disappointed... Vas promised that rybka was going to be the best
analysis engine ever... but seems to have sold his soul to the Elo devil....
At the end of my club's current tournament I will try to make an evaluation and probably switch back to R2.3.2a for analysing games :-(
Roger
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-10-13 18:47
ouch... Rybka 3 is much better for analysis, Rybka 2 is blind in so many positions, espacially tactically...
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-10-13 19:27
Three months forward: ouch... Rybka 4 is much better for analysis, Rybka 3 is blind in so many positions, espacially king-safety, endgame ... :-)
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-10-13 20:43
Yes, a month after R4 is released, people will go from treating R3 as if it is nearly perfect to thinking it is a pile of shit! :-) Except you of course, since you have been treating R3 as if it were a pile of shit since it was released! :-D
Parent - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-10-13 21:25

> but seems to have sold his soul to the Elo devil....


Sounds scary!!
Parent - By Geomusic (*****) Date 2009-10-14 08:21
u have got to be  kidding vroger.
Parent - - By grolich (***) Date 2009-10-27 14:13
I have no idea what analysis options and parameters you are using, so I can't really comment on that.
I will say one thing though:

I have made many comparisons between the versions in analysis of many different games, and Rybka 3 gives better, more consistent, and more accurate analysis than any of the 2.3.* versions in over 95% of games I've analyzed.

My impression is that Rybka 3 IS the best analysis engine ever made.

However, I am curious, and wonder if you could post the game analysis of the same game by Rybka 2.3.something  and by Rybka 3, where you believe Rybka 2.3.*'s analysis was better. That would be easier to comment on.
Parent - By vroger007 (**) Date 2009-10-29 20:33
Will do... give me some time
Parent - - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-10-13 21:40
I saw sidserous' recent post in the other thread. So you did manage to call him :)
Parent - By Michael Hart (***) Date 2009-10-13 23:05
I only meant to put him on "standby".  I take full responsibility for the damages that follow.
- - By Gr00vy (**) Date 2009-10-13 19:51
I got my Rybka 4 trial (3+?) on my Duke Nuk'em Forever distro.   I downloaded it from this bit torrent site in Slovakia.
Parent - - By Fulcrum2000 (****) Date 2009-10-13 19:59
LOL And how does it play ;-)
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-10-13 23:02
like Fruit.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-14 02:54
The joke here is that it's taking forever to release Rybka 4, Duke Nukem Forever was a game that was in development since 1997, and people were still expecting it this year, but finally it was canceled in May.

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