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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / There will be a SINGLE core Rybka 4 version?
- - By Igrino (*) Date 2009-10-07 11:22
I am wondering if there will be a single core version of Rybka4 or just the multi core....
I am not sure, but I think that currently most PCs are at least dual core so does it make sense (beside marketing reasons like, may be, selling price higher for the multi core) to make a "special" single core version?
Actually, from my point of view, the single core version should be more expensive than the multi-core because targetted to a smaller number of customers!
I would like to have the opinion of engine experts about this subject (or related, like for example, if there are hidden reasons why the multi core version should be more expensive than the single one, assuming that most people are now interested in the multi-core version only).
Thank you,
Igrino
Parent - - By pokerpawn (***) Date 2009-10-07 14:05
not much sense i think because single core pc's can just as well use the MP version , doesn't make any difference , is already the case with rybka 3 as well
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-07 19:22
The difference would be that SP buyers could get a lower price.
Parent - - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2009-10-07 20:24
i would rather see a uniform program & price, between SP & MP if necessary (i don't think 2x pricing over other software (including what chess programs sold for before 'deep' versions) is justified simply because chess programs can utilize common tech).  i think that's much more with the times & i'm not just saying that as an MP user. plus, if SP buyers should upgrade in the next 18 months or so, as most of them probably will, they won't need to upgrade rybka as well.  there's little sense in selling two versions other than the 'that's just what we've been doing' argument. and i don't think vas particularly likes those arguments. ;) just sell rybka 4 for $69, rybka 4 aquarium for $89 or even $99, is what i'd do.

since rybka does not have it's own GUI, as fritz & shredder do, i would like to see the engine selling for something like $45 bucks, even. it might go a significant way in discouraging piracy. of course there is the argument that pirates will pirate no matter the price, & selling for $90 will simply generate almost 2x the profit. not my profit so i'm not terribly interested in doing a study.
Parent - - By grolich (***) Date 2009-10-07 21:17
Actually, it's not "just" utilizing common technology.

A lot of extra programming is required to support mp for any chess program.
It's not just telling the program to use the other processors.
Lots of work on minimizing resource sharing issues and making sure it scales anything close to moderate (and a lot more work till it works well).

It's no rocket science , but it definitely takes a lot more work to complete the mp version even after the uniprocessor version is complete.

paying more for more work makes perfect sense. I agree that usually the mp version prices ARE too high in my opinion relative to the up versions, but in general it makes sense to charge more for them. Wouldn't make much sense not to...

That is, until now.

The issue now becomes the lack of uniprocessor computers. Those are getting very hard to come by. In the near future finding a home that uses any kind of new chess engine and has a uniproc computer may become very hard to come by.

That would make the up versions a bit obsolete.
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-10-08 14:08
The two step model that you are assuming, i.e. development of the chess engine as SP, followed by conversion to MP is not followed for Rybka development (it does seem to be the model for Fritz development though). Vas has previously stated that there is no native SP version, just as there is no native 32-bit version of Rybka. These variants are simple derivative compilations from the 64-bit MP baseline. This keeps Vas' life as simple as possible.

Charging less for SP is just a form of price discrimination, i.e. providing less capability for a lower price. There is nothing wrong with this concept and current SP buyers may decide to upgrade in the future to the MP version. Since the marginal cost of an engine sale (at least via download) is close to zero, there is no reason to believe that SP sales are being subsidized by MP sales.
Parent - - By Capa (***) Date 2009-10-08 13:48
Why not get rid of the SP version and pass on the lower price to the MP version?  I think the only real reason that these chess engines have 2 versions is to fleece those that buy the MP version.  However, I do believe that Rybka will have 2 versions and not just because of this money issue but also because the Chessbase products will also have two versions.  If Rybka realeased just a MP version and priced it at e.g Fritz SP price, Fritz and everbody else would go the way of the dodo bird!
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-08 20:03

> Why not get rid of the SP version and pass on the lower price to the MP version?


Because Vas wouldn't make enough money for a living and would need to retire from computer chess?
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-10-08 16:45
It is absolutely necessary to have an SP version.  It would be a complete show-stopper if R4 were issued without one.
Parent - By Capa (***) Date 2009-10-08 22:27
Not only would it be a show-stopper but if priced correctly it would eliminate the competition.  But heck, when Vas joined with Chessbase, they insured that they wouldn't be buried ;)
Parent - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2009-10-09 00:57
You say:

"Actually, from my point of view, the single core version should be more expensive than the multi-core because targetted to a smaller number of customers!"

This clearly does not make sense because in case that the single core is more expensive, every buyer is going to buy the multi-core version(that is not limited to more than 1 cpu).

I believe that most buyers of rybka3 chose the single core version and I will not be surprised if the same thing happens with rybka4.

Uri
- - By ssace (**) Date 2009-10-09 02:06
I have quad core  processor but still would prob just get SP rybka and not because of price.  I am a multi-tasking user and don't feel like turning over the majority of my system resources to positional analysis.  I think there is a market of users that are not interested in the fastest/deepest possible analysis to play chess, and analyze their games.  Also, the same group may not be interested in pitting their computer against another computer where DEEP is the gold standard.

There certainly is a market for both.  Just depends on what players are trying to achieve.
Parent - By Capa (***) Date 2009-10-09 12:19
ssace, I would say that the market that you describe is the bigger of the two.  That would explain why Fritz and other Chessbase products sell so well.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / There will be a SINGLE core Rybka 4 version?

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