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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / What is the correct move in this position?
- - By jaboo2 (**) Date 2009-10-03 16:46 Edited 2009-10-03 16:49
What is the correct move in this position?

2q1r2k/2b1nppp/5n2/1rp2P2/p1Np2P1/3P1B1Q/P2B3P/4RRK1 b - g3 0 28


This is from the game:

[Event "Rated game, 1m + 0s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2009.10.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "PjotrTilburg"]
[Black "Superconductor"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A03"]
[WhiteElo "1210"]
[BlackElo "1303"]
[Annotator ",Microsoft"]
[PlyCount "55"]
[EventDate "2009.10.02"]
[TimeControl "60"]

1. f4 {5} d5 {1} 2. Nf3 {0} c5 {1} 3. e3 {0} Nc6 {1} 4. b3 {0} Nf6 {0} 5. Bb2 {
0} e6 {1} 6. Be2 {0} Bd6 {1} 7. O-O {1} Ne4 {1} 8. Qe1 {1} O-O {1} 9. d3 {3}
Nf6 {1} 10. Qg3 {2} Kh8 {3} 11. Nfd2 {3} b5 {4} 12. c4 {2} bxc4 {4} 13. bxc4 {1
} d4 14. Na3 Rb8 15. Nb3 a5 16. Nb5 a4 17. Nd2 Ba6 18. e4 Bxb5 19. cxb5 Rxb5
20. Bc1 Bc7 21. Nc4 Re8 22. Bd2 Qa8 23. Qh3 Ne7 24. Bf3 Nd7 25. f5 exf5 26.
exf5 Qc8 27. Rae1 Nf6 28. g4 *
Parent - - By jaboo2 (**) Date 2009-10-03 20:07
Anyone? Please help me here. My Rybka says Nfg8 is the best move for black but I'm not sure it's the best move.

Your help will be appreciated.
Parent - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2009-10-03 20:18
no problem
[+-FAIL] d=13 years old 28...i'm a jackass! i'm a jackass! i'm a jackass! i'm a jackass! i'm a jackass!
[+0.21]  d=12  28...Nfd5 29.g5 Rb8 30.Re4 (0:00:06) 811kN
[-0.08]  d=11  28...Nfd5 29.g5 Rb8 30.Re4 (0:00:03) 439kN
[-0.08]  d=10  28...Rb8 29.g5 Nfd5 30.Bg4 Qd8 31.a3 Rg8 32.Bh5 Rf8 33.Bg4 (0:00:01) 174kN
[-0.15]  d=9  28...Rb8 29.g5 Nfd5 30.Bg4 Qb7 31.f6 gxf6 32.gxf6 Ng6 33.Bf3 (0:00:00) 44kN
[-0.28]  d=8  28...Rb8 29.g5 Nfd5 30.Bg4 Qb7 31.f6 (0:00:00) 31kN
[-0.38]  d=7  28...Rb8 29.g5 Nfd5 30.Be4 Qd7 (0:00:00) 20kN
[-0.33]  d=7  28...Nfd5 29.Qg2 Nb6 30.Ne5 (0:00:00) 13kN
[-0.44]  d=6  28...Nfd5 29.Qh4 Qd7 (0:00:00) 5kN
[-0.42]  d=5  28...Nfd5 29.Qg2 (0:00:00) 2kN
[-0.43]  d=4  28...Nfd5 (0:00:00) 0kN
[-0.47]  d=3  28...Nfd5 (0:00:00) 0kN
[-0.38]  d=2  28...Nfd5 (0:00:00) 0kN
Parent - - By Eelco de Groot (***) Date 2009-10-03 20:44 Edited 2009-10-03 20:54
Hello Uri,

I'm afraid there possibly is no '"correct"' move anymore. I only had 50% of my CPU that I could spare so it took a while:

2q1r2k/2b1nppp/5n2/1rp2P2/p1Np2P1/3P1B1Q/P2B3P/4RRK1 b - -


Engine: Ancalagon 1.3 Weak Squares 180 Board Control middlegame 50 endgame 50
Build 328 (Athlon 2009 MHz, 256 MB) by Romstad, Costalba, Kiiski, de Groot

2.01   0:09   -2.03    28...Ned5 29.g5 Kg8 30.gxf6 Nxf6
                       31.a3 Rxe1 32.Rxe1 (426.746) 46

2.02   0:11   +0.61    28...Kg8 29.Re2 h5 30.g5 Nfd5
                       31.Bxh5 (878.800) 77

3.01   0:48   +0.36    28...Kg8 29.Qg2 h6 30.Re2 Qb8
                       31.Rfe1 Rb1 32.Bc1 Qb5 (9.013.876) 187

3.20   0:53   +0.42    28...Nfd5 29.Ne5 Bxe5 30.Rxe5 (10.059.750) 189

4.01   1:48   -0.13    28...Nfd5 29.Bd1 Qa8 30.f6 Nxf6
                       31.g5 Nfd5 32.Rxf7 Rf8 33.Rxf8+ Qxf8
                       34.Rf1 Qa8 35.Rf7 Qg8 (21.215.875) 195

4.02   1:50   -0.08    28...Kg8 29.Qg2 h5 30.Bg5 Kh8
                       31.Bxf6 gxf6 32.Qh3 (21.757.487) 196

4.05   1:55   +0.01    28...a3 29.Qg2 h6 30.Bc1 Qa6 31.Bxa3 Kg8
                       32.Bc1 (22.783.057) 197

4.10   1:59   +0.31    28...Rb8 29.Qg2 h6 30.Re2 Kg8
                       31.Rfe1 Qd7 32.Ne5 Bxe5 33.Rxe5 (23.554.583) 197

5.01   2:53   +0.19    28...Rb8 29.Bg5 Qa6 30.Bd2 a3 31.g5 Nfd5
                       32.f6 gxf6 33.gxf6 Nxf6 34.Qh6 Rg8+
                       35.Bg5 (34.631.466) 199

5.04   3:13   +0.43    28...Nfd5 29.Ne5 Rf8 30.Nc4 f6
                       31.Re6 Qd7 32.Rfe1 Nc6 33.Qh5 Ne5 (38.782.970) 200

6.01   3:47   0.00     28...Nfd5 29.Bd1 Qa8 30.Bf3 Qb8
                       31.Bd1 Qa8 (46.191.007) 202

6.02   3:56   +0.15    28...Rb8 29.Qg2 h6 30.Re2 Qd7 31.Ne5 Bxe5
                       32.Rxe5 Qc7 (48.114.383) 203

7.01   4:45   -0.21    28...Rb8 29.g5 Nfd5 30.Bg4 Qb7 31.f6 gxf6
                       32.gxf6 Ng6 33.Rxe8+ Rxe8 34.Qg2 Rd8
                       35.Bf3 Qc6 36.Bh6 (58.958.206) 206

8.01   5:51   0.00     28...Rb8 29.Qg2 h6 30.Qh3 Kg8
                       31.Bxh6 Ned5 32.Rxe8+ Qxe8 33.Bxg7 Kxg7
                       34.g5 Kg8 35.gxf6 Nxf6 (73.455.025) 209

9.01   9:46   -0.72    28...Rb8 29.g5 Nfd5 30.Bg4 Qb7 31.f6 gxf6
                       32.gxf6 Ng6 33.Rxe8+ Rxe8 34.Bf3 Rg8
                       35.Bh6 Ngf4+ 36.Bg7+ Rxg7+ 37.fxg7+ Kxg7
                       38.Qh4 Kf8 39.Qxh7 (121.529.245) 207

9.02   10:55  0.00     28...Nfd5 29.Bd1 Qa8 30.Bf3 Qc8 (135.411.689) 206

10.01  106:37 -0.26    28...Nfd5 29.Bd1 Rb8 30.Bxa4 Rf8
                       31.Qh4 f6 32.Re6 Ra8 33.Bb3 Ra6 (1.234.843.406) 193

11.01  165:30 -1.14    28...Nfd5 29.g5 Rb8 30.Re4 Nc3 31.g6 (1.961.838.428) 197

11.05  185:41 -1.14    28...Rb8 (2.210.411.158) 198

Running only at half speed on the Athlon. 28... Nfg8 is still according to the GUI in the list of moves that are searched deeper than the rest but it was never first.

Eelco

P.S. what's the significance of a game between elo 1210 and elo 1303? If it is of theoretical importance then are those eloratings total bogus?
Parent - - By jaboo2 (**) Date 2009-10-03 21:44

> P.S. what's the significance of a game between elo 1210 and elo 1303? If it is of theoretical importance then are those eloratings total bogus?


Thanks for the analysis Eelco. 1300 is my current rating on Playchess. I admit, I'm not a good player.
Parent - - By Eelco de Groot (***) Date 2009-10-03 22:03
You're welcome, no offense meant, you are probably a stronger player than me. Good idea to analyze your own games thoroughly. Actually I thought you were the other Uri Uri :) I did not know there were two of you. This is very confusing :)

I now see Nfg8 for the first time.

12.01  296:58 -0.64    28...Rb8 29.g5 Nfg8 30.Bg2 g6
                       31.fxg6 Qxh3 32.Bxh3 fxg6 33.Rf7 Nd5 (3.498.689.335) 196

But I'm sure you have a faster computer than my half speed oldie so I'll stop it now I think...

Regards, Eelco
Parent - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-10-04 11:04
I used to be confused too. Now I know that there is Master Blass and Uri :)
Parent - By Eelco de Groot (***) Date 2009-10-04 20:16
In the result with new build 239 I did Ancalagon finally also sees Nfg8 but with a slightly lower score for the position:

2q1r2k/2b1nppp/5n2/1rp2P2/p1Np2P1/3P1B1Q/P2B3P/4RRK1 b - -


Engine: Ancalagon 1.3 Weak Squares 180 Board Control middlegame 50 endgame 50
Build 329 (Athlon 2009 MHz, 256 MB) by Romstad, Costalba, Kiiski, de Groot

2.00   0:01   -2.03    28...Ned5 29.g5 Kg8 30.gxf6 Nxf6
                       31.a3 Rxe1 32.Rxe1 (532.169) 330

2.02   0:02   +0.61    28...Kg8 29.Re2 h5 30.g5 Nfd5
                       31.Bxh5 (882.165) 359

3.01   0:21   -1.50    28...Kg8 29.Bd1 h6 30.Bxa4 Qb8
                       31.Bxb5 Qxb5 32.g5 hxg5 33.Bxg5 Ned5
                       34.Rxe8+ Qxe8 35.Bd2 (8.967.586) 411

3.04   0:22   +0.36    28...Nfd5 29.Qh5 Kg8 30.Bg2 Qd7
                       31.Bg5 Nf6 32.Bxf6 gxf6 (9.284.051) 410

4.01   0:31   +0.25    28...Nfd5 29.Qg2 Nc3 30.f6 gxf6
                       31.Bxc3 dxc3 32.Qc2 Qb8 33.Re2 Kg8
                       34.Qxc3 (12.904.047) 410

5.01   0:40   +0.31    28...Nfd5 29.Qg2 Nc3 30.Bxc3 dxc3
                       31.Qc2 h5 32.Qxc3 hxg4 33.Bxg4 (17.097.957) 417

5.06   0:53   +0.35    28...Rb8 29.Qg2 Qd8 30.Ne5 Kg8
                       31.Bc6 Nxc6 32.Nxc6 Qd6 33.Nxb8 Rxb8 (22.326.212) 417

6.01   1:18   0.00     28...Rb8 29.Bg5 Qd7 30.Bxf6 gxf6
                       31.Qh6 Nd5 32.Bxd5 Qxd5 33.Qxf6+ Kg8
                       34.Qg5+ Kh8 35.Qf6+ Kg8 (32.978.811) 418

6.02   1:27   +0.05    28...Nfd5 29.g5 Rb8 30.Bg4 Qa6
                       31.Qh5 g6 32.fxg6 fxg6 33.Qh3 Nf5
                       34.Rxf5 gxf5 35.Bxf5 (36.649.761) 417

7.01   1:54   -0.48    28...Nfd5 29.g5 Ne3 30.Bxe3 dxe3
                       31.Rxe3 Qd7 32.Be4 f6 33.Qh5 Reb8
                       34.gxf6 gxf6 35.Qf7 (48.216.340) 419

8.01   2:32   -0.60    28...Nfd5 29.g5 Ne3 30.Bxe3 dxe3
                       31.Rxe3 Qd7 32.Bg2 Rbb8 33.Qf3 Qd4
                       34.f6 gxf6 35.Qxf6+ Qxf6 36.Rxf6 Kg8 (64.499.219) 421

8.06   4:39   -0.40    28...Qd7 29.g5 Nfg8 30.Qg2 f6 31.Bh5 Rd8
                       32.Bf7 fxg5 33.Qxg5 h6 34.Qg2 Nxf5 (115.579.559) 413

9.01   7:40   -1.25    28...Qd7 29.g5 Nfg8 30.Re4 Rbb8
                       31.Bg2 g6 32.Rh4 h5 33.fxg6 Qxh3
                       34.g7+ Kxg7 35.Rxh3 Ng6 36.Bd5 Ne5
                       37.Nxe5 Rxe5 38.Rxf7+ Kg6 (192.232.652) 417

9.02   8:09   0.00     28...Nfd5 29.g5 Rb8 30.Bg4 Qb7
                       31.Bf3 Qc8 (204.037.043) 417

10.01  53:51  -1.10    28...Nfd5 29.g5 Rb8 30.Re4 Nc3 31.g6 Nxg6
                       32.Rxe8+ Qxe8 33.fxg6 fxg6 34.a3 Rb1
                       35.Rxb1 Nxb1 36.Bg5 Nc3 37.Bh4 Kg8
                       38.Bc6 Qf8 39.Qe6+ Kh8 40.Kg2 Qb8
                       41.Bg3 Bxg3 (1.317.555.193) 407

11.01  111:50 -1.11    28...Nfd5 29.g5 Rb8 30.Re4 Nc3 31.g6 Nxg6
                       32.Rxe8+ Qxe8 33.fxg6 fxg6 34.a3 Rb1
                       35.Rxb1 Nxb1 36.Bc6 Qf8 37.Bxa4 Nxd2
                       38.Nxd2 Qf5 39.Qg2 Qf4 40.Nc4 Qc1+
                       41.Kf2 Qf4+ (2.675.985.413) 398

11.02  113:09 -1.11    28...Nfg8 (2.696.880.788) 397

11.10  128:30 -1.10    28...Rb8 (2.964.124.143) 384

12.01  299:32 -1.04    28...Rb8 29.g5 Nfd5 30.Re4 Nc3 31.g6 Nxg6
                       32.Rxe8+ Qxe8 33.fxg6 fxg6 34.a3 Qe7
                       35.Re1 Qf7 36.Ne5 Bxe5 37.Rxe5 h6
                       38.Be1 Rf8 39.Bg2 c4 40.dxc4 Qxc4
                       41.Re7 Qc5 (6.889.456.698) 383

13.01  533:10 -1.22    28...Rb8 29.g5 Nfd5 30.Re4 Nc3 31.g6 Nxg6
                       32.Rxe8+ Qxe8 33.fxg6 fxg6 34.a3 Qd8
                       35.Re1 Qf6 36.Qd7 Rf8 37.Bg2 Bf4
                       38.Bxf4 Qxf4 39.Rf1 Qb8 40.Rxf8+ Qxf8
                       41.Ne5 Ne2+ (12.599.283.611) 393

13.04  696:59 -1.22 {A fail high, I do not now exactly what the score is here}   28...Nfg8 (16.640.856.340) 397

best move: Nf6-g8 time: 762:37.360 min  n/s: 395.605  nodes: 18.101.790.295
Parent - By Asylum (**) Date 2009-10-04 11:33
New game
2q1r2k/2b1nppp/5n2/1rp2P2/p1Np2P1/3P1B1Q/P2B3P/4RRK1 b - - 0 1


Analysis by Fritz 12:

1...Nfd5 2.Be4 f6 3.Qh5 Nc3 4.Qf7 Rb8 5.Bf3 Qd7 6.Re6 Nxa2
  =  (-0.15)   Depth: 11/29   00:00:00  594kN
1...Nfd5 2.Be4 Nf6 3.Bf3
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 12/29   00:00:00  1178kN
1...Nfd5 2.Be4 Nf6 3.Bf3
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 13/33   00:00:01  2792kN
1...Nfd5 2.g5 Rb8 3.Bg4 Qb7 4.Qg2 Qa6 5.Bh5 Rf8 6.f6 gxf6 7.Bf3 Ne3 8.Nxe3 dxe3
  +/=  (0.45)   Depth: 14/35   00:00:05  11987kN
1...Nfd5 2.g5 Rb8 3.Bg4 Qb7 4.Bh5 Rf8 5.f6 gxf6 6.Bf3 Ng6 7.Qf5 Be5 8.Be4 Rfe8
  +/=  (0.36)   Depth: 15/36   00:00:09  18894kN
1...Nfd5 2.g5 Rb8 3.Bg4 Qb7 4.Bh5 Rf8 5.f6 gxf6 6.Bf3 Rbe8 7.gxf6 Rg8+ 8.Kh1
  +/=  (0.49)   Depth: 16/39   00:00:14  29571kN
1...Nfd5 2.Be4 f6 3.Qh5 Ne3 4.Bxe3 dxe3 5.Rxe3 Rb8 6.g5 Ng8 7.Rh3 h6 8.gxh6 Nxh6
  +/-  (0.97)   Depth: 17/43   00:00:36  73652kN
1...Rb8 2.g5 Nfd5 3.Bg4 Qb7 4.Bh5 g6 5.fxg6 Nxg6 6.Qf5 Rxe1 7.Rxe1 Kg8 8.Rf1 Rf8
  +/=  (0.56)   Depth: 17/43   00:00:47  97897kN
1...Rb8 2.g5 Nfd5 3.Bg4 Qb7 4.Bh5 g6 5.fxg6 Nxg6 6.Bf3 Rxe1 7.Bxe1 Kg8 8.Be4 Rd8 9.Bd2
  +/=  (0.70)   Depth: 18/42   00:00:53  111mN
1...Rb8 2.g5 Nfd5 3.Bg4 Qb7 4.Bh5 g6 5.fxg6 Nxg6 6.Bf3 Rxe1 7.Bxe1 Kg8 8.Be4 Rd8 9.Bd2
  +/-  (0.75)   Depth: 19/41   00:01:18  163mN
1...Rb8 2.g5 Nfd5 3.Re4 Ne3 4.Nxe3 dxe3 5.Bxe3 Qxf5 6.Qxf5 Nxf5 7.Bxc5 Rxe4 8.Bxe4 Nd6 9.Bd5 Rb5 10.d4
  +/-  (0.84)   Depth: 20/46   00:03:24  426mN

(04.10.2009)
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / What is the correct move in this position?

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