Not logged inRybka Chess Community Forum
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / how strong is the cluster relative to rybka3?
1 2 Previous Next  
- - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2009-10-03 10:11
I wonder what is the time advantage that rybka3(64 bits) on a a quad needs in order to score 50% against the cluster in ponder off match.
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-03 12:26
roughly 12x if it is a Nehalem quad running at 3 GHz
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-10-03 20:16
... and roughly 6x if R3 plays on the cluster? :-)
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-03 21:19
R3 can't take advantage of the cluster - it would only run on the master computer ;)
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-10-03 21:41 Edited 2009-10-03 21:44
Okay, I was talking about the software version of Cluster Rybka Beijing (10/2008). But I see, you aren´t interested to share your insight in the improvements of R4 beta. I´m sure, you have played a couple of games R3v61 (?) vs R3 on Nehalem EP.
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-03 21:52
The Beijing version already was stronger than Rybka 3.

>I´m sure, you have played a couple of games R3v61 (?) vs R3 on Nehalem EP.


Yes I did. I was happy with the results ;)
Parent - - By Gaмßito (****) Date 2009-10-04 00:43

> Yes I did. I was happy with the results ;-)


I will be happy too if you reveal it. Why keep secret those results?

Do you know where is Vas?

Is Rybka 3v61 the last version you have?

Regards,
Gaмßito.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-04 02:31 Edited 2009-10-04 02:38

> Do you know where is Vas?


Multiverse > Present > 3rd Dimension > Universe > Observable Universe > Large-Scale Structure Of The Cosmos > Virgo Supercluster > Local Barred Spiral Galaxy Cluster > Milky Way Galaxy > Orion Arm > Gould Belt > Local Bubble > Local Interstellar Cloud > Solar System > Earth...

Oops, can't find him.
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-10-04 08:05
...> Google Maps?
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-04 08:27
"We're sorry, but we don't have imagery at this zoom level."
Parent - - By JDrysdale (***) Date 2009-10-05 19:38
"Multiverse > Present > 3rd Dimension > Universe > Observable Universe > Large-Scale Structure Of The Cosmos > Virgo Supercluster > Local Barred Spiral Galaxy Cluster > Milky Way Galaxy > Orion Arm > Gould Belt > Local Bubble > Local Interstellar Cloud > Solar System > Earth..."

Aren't you leaving out a few dimensions?

My favorite is...
"You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension - a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You've just crossed over into the..." _Rybka Zone_

doo - doo - doo -doo, doo - doo - doo -doo, bom bom!

(Sorry, no sleep last night :) )
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-05 20:44

> Aren't you leaving out a few dimensions?


Here I'm deeming the fourth dimension as "time", in such case it is included on "Present" (as in, we could also search for Vas on the future, or in the past, actually, I just found Vas at Multiverse > Past >...>Poland.)

Any fifth dimension would be a superset of time. Comic characters could be found in the "Second Dimension" (with their respective universes), so I'm only including the points in where we're searching for Vas (and Multiverse is not redundant, as we could be searching for Vas on the Abstract [that's outside the Multiverse, just like the Null Set.])

Actually, I thought someone would nitpick on the fact that there's no such thing called "Local Barred Spiral Galaxy Cluster", but it sounded catchier than "Local Group", so I had to include it.

> Sorry, no sleep last night


Don't worry, I appreciate such discussions :), and I'm also a fan of Twilight Zone (I've not watched beyond the third season yet, though.)
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-04 08:25

>Why keep secret those results?


I'm not Rybka's spokesman

>Do you know where is Vas?


yes

>Is Rybka 3v61 the last version you have?


no
Parent - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-10-04 10:57
Lukas,

According the answers that you have given. It seems to be safe to assume that Rybka will be quite strong. So we better just be patient and wait for the man to get out of his hiding closet :)
Parent - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-10-04 14:16
Short and sweet.
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-10-05 15:54

>I'm not Rybka's spokesman


Okay, but we have a problem! There is only a "hidden" spokesman for Rybka. In the meantime other leaders have to take reponsibility.

PS: Ohh, I hope there will be no Fatwa!
Parent - - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-10-05 17:20

> There is only a "hidden" spokesman for Rybka.


:-D :-D :-D Oh no! Vas stop hiding yourself :-D :-D :-D
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-10-05 17:51

>Vas stop hiding yourself


Oh I see, you don´t know the history. Vas is hidden by God!
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-10-04 08:28
"Why keep secret those results?"

Keeping you excited and making the "whoaaaaaa"-effect possible when you look at the first results :)
Parent - - By mikal (**) Date 2009-10-04 14:36

>Yes I did. I was happy with the results ;-)


Well I don't care about your emotion about the results since you might be smoking some sort of crack and be happy all the time. What we need is the games, elo, and percentage of that result.
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-04 14:55
I don't smoke. I even try to convince my patients to stop smoking.
You need games and Elo? :lol:
What you need is patience as you won't get that from me.
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-10-04 15:04
On the other hand, I can supply you with good cigars.
Parent - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-04 15:11
From Cuba? :)
Parent - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-10-04 16:10
I find cigarettes to be the life blood of my chess analysis :)
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-10-04 16:16
I guess when your patients visit you it's already too late for them to stop smoking :-D
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-04 16:36
Well, if they've got lung cancer, that's true. Strangely many people stop smoking when it's way too late. If I'd get the diagnosis of lung cancer (I stopped smoking when I was 19) I'd probably start smoking big cigars - maybe the Habanero cigars Nelson recommends ;)
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-10-04 17:08
I guess it's medically proven that smoking increases the odds of lung cancer. Do you indeed see that within patients of yours who are diagnosed with lung-cancer? Are most of them indeed active smokers? (I'm still living in denial, I guess).
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-10-04 17:51
As an Englishman you have Churchill's example to encourage tobacco consumption.  He lit up to 15 cigars a day and lived to be 90.  Of course, liberal quantities of high-quality alcoholic beverages are needed to neutralize the toxic properties of tobacco smoke.  Cognac: good.  Rot-gut vodka: bad.
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-04 18:05
I guess Shahar won't be overly happy if you say he's an Englishman - in fact he is an Israeli. So I guess, Churchill isn't his ideal ;) Well maybe I want to follow Churchill - his main motto was:  no sports :)
Btw. Vodka isn't worse than Cognac - it's just cheaper ;)
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-10-04 18:55
Hmm, I don't suppose Golda Meir smoked up to 15 cigars a day.
Parent - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2009-10-05 11:56
as a chronic (& impoverished) smoker + drinker, i can confirm that cognac is much easier on the throat & lungs than rotgut vodka, & a much better complement to smoking. i didnt realize it actually neutralized the effects of smoking though, maybe its worth investing in after all :)
- - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-10-03 12:29
Watching some of the recent Cluster games, I would boldy estimate that Lukas Cluster with his *private* Rybka version is at least 150-250 ELO stronger than R3 running on an i7 965 CPU.
Would be very interesting to hear from Lukas, if he can disclose that info of course, what his actual measurements have revealed.
Parent - - By Bouddha (****) Date 2009-10-03 16:25
I would already say that the cluster with same Rybka as us is already about 150-200 ELO stronger.
With the new Rybka version, I have no idea, but mostlikely more than 250 ELO stronger
Parent - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2009-10-04 17:29
I think that the elo difference  is a function of book that is used and time control and personality(rybka3 can play with negative contempt against the cluster and hopefully perform better assuming that the contempt works as intended)

Uri
Parent - - By grolich (***) Date 2009-10-05 11:52
Interesting opinion.
That means you believe it's quite reasonable for a leap of ~100 ELO between 3 and 4.

Some leap of faith:)

hopefully you are correct.
Parent - - By Bouddha (****) Date 2009-10-05 14:03
I have no clue except what I heard.

Improvement may be more than 50 ELO improvement.

But again, I have no clue as I am not involved in the project and not informed
Parent - - By grolich (***) Date 2009-10-05 16:15
50+ Elo would be very nice and good to see.
100 would be WOW.

Anything more and some here on this forum would seriously consider starting a Rybka religion.
ehm... Actually, Maybe that already happened...
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-10-05 17:02
More than 100 seems likely, in which case we will all be drinking Kool-Aid!  Wouldn't it be great for Vas to start a cult?  We'd all be sitting there in hooded blue robes, heads bowed, rocking back and forth, chanting "ommm, ommm, ommm" while the Great One in the white robe spoke to us about different algorithms, search optimization, evaluation functions, etc.  Then with a wave of his hand he would say "peace be with you, my Children" and we would file out, still chanting, and spend the rest of the day tilling the soil and doing organic farming.  Then at night we could form a bonfire, tossing in obsolete chess books while singing hymns in praise of Rybka and Vas.
Parent - By grolich (***) Date 2009-10-05 17:18

> "peace be with you, my Children"


Really? I thought Vas's and Rybka's aim was to destroy whoever sits on the other end of the board (or the other side of the connection)... Be it friend or foe.

Oh well, I guess nothing is more peaceful than a dead body. In that sense, you could say "I come in peace" (or even better: "I want world peace"), start world war 3, and no one could say you weren't truthful about your intentions:)

Other than that, sounds great to me:)
just think of a better cult beverage please, and I'll consider joining...
Parent - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2009-10-05 19:01

> while the Great One in the white robe


... and socks and sandals ...
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-10-05 20:35
We'd all be sitting there in hooded blue robes

No! We'd all be sitting there in Che Guevara tee shirts, white socks, and sandals...
Parent - - By Bouddha (****) Date 2009-10-05 17:58
I would be very happy with +50
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-10-05 18:20
Not me.  I think just fixing the bugs in Rybka 3 are probably worth 30 points by themselves.  From what I have seen of the endgame performance I can't help but think the next version is going to really rock.  The question is how he will get any additional performance from future editions outside of improving the scaling, which will surely be the source of the biggest gains going forward.  There will be some epochal events in computer hardware in the next decade.  Imagine if all of us had something as strong as Lukas' cluster humming away next to our desks in one normal-sized case.  It's the death of chess, but that's what we are all working toward day and night, so be merry!
Parent - - By jaboo2 (**) Date 2009-10-05 23:20 Edited 2009-10-05 23:41

> Imagine if all of us had something as strong as Lukas' cluster humming away next to our desks in one normal-sized case.  It's the death of chess, but that's what we are all working toward day and night, so be merry!


It's not gonna happen any time soon in my opinion. First of all, a 72 core machine is never gonna be in an affordable price anywhere near in the future. The reason for this is that few people need such a monster at home so there is not enough market demand for such a thing.

It will take at least 20 years from now until such a thing will be available at an affordable price to middle class people. I think the best thing middle class people like me can hope for in the next 5 years is 16 cores on one motherboard.
Parent - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2009-10-06 11:15
eh, its all a question of priorties & where u want to spend money. im lower class but i dont worry about savings. if i wanted to i could get an octal right now with some decent financing (i am thinking about getting a mac pro but i know i should wait). i figure within a couple years if i save i could probably pay straight cash to get 16 cores quite easily (those will be available in just a few months & the price will only go down!).  so i am more inclined to agree w/ nelson.  the servers/workstations will still have to compete against each other & time is literally money for many of their users.  so while the desktops might not undergo massive speed advances (no one needs the hardware & it can be focused on other things like SSDs, GPUs, etc) youll still probably see affordable monster-core machines in 5 years.
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-10-05 19:39
I´m sure, Vas will resign, if he can make only 50 Elopoints in 14 months!
Parent - By Bouddha (****) Date 2009-10-05 20:16
Have you been in computer chess for long ?

Do you remember the Shredder old versions or the Fritz's and others ?

They released new versions with just a few ELO's gains. (between 30 to 10 or less).

You seem to be used to have release with 100 ELO between versions.

But this nearly only exist since Rybka came to us.
- - By andrew_cz (**) Date 2009-10-06 16:06
What is this cluster version of Rybka everyone talking about? It seems I've been out of the loop for too long and I missed out on a newer version of R3? R3v61?  Is this publicly available? Mulitprocessor?

How can I tell what version of R3 I have anyway? Be it R3, R3D(ynamic) or R3H(uman)?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-06 20:17
There's only one public Rybka (3, and its versions Dynamic and Human), R3v61 was latest "Rybka 4 Beta", it's cluster capable (you can use it on many computers) and I believe only Kullberg had it.

We still don't know if Rybka 4 will be cluster capable.
Parent - - By andrew_cz (**) Date 2009-10-06 20:43
I see.  Is Kullberg one of the R3 beta testers or something? Just wondering what makes him so special as to have a cluster capable version of R3.

And when you say that you believe onle he has it, I would think you also mean that so does Vas (and maybe Larry too) since Vas is the programmer of R3.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / how strong is the cluster relative to rybka3?
1 2 Previous Next  

Powered by mwForum 2.27.4 © 1999-2012 Markus Wichitill