Not logged inRybka Chess Community Forum
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / How strong is Rybka 4 book ?
- - By stephanie (**) Date 2009-09-28 21:24
Are rybka team book makers are using their cluster in making their books? What are plans for rybka 4 book (release dates, features etc.) and how strong will it be compared to the best public books out there?

I appreciate if vas or a rybka team member replies.

Thanks in advance.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-09-28 21:32
Apparently only Jeroen knows, and he's on "vacation" (from computer chess, or he maintains his work on the book top secret.)
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-09-30 11:36
Jeroen used Luka's hardware for creating the Rybka 3 books, for the Aquarium one he could have used the cluster, but I don't know it. If there are plans to create a new book for Rybka 4: I don't know :)
Parent - By Bouddha (****) Date 2009-09-30 11:50
IMHO, while a new book is always welcome, there is currently a wide choice of free books which are excellent.

regards
Parent - - By mikal (**) Date 2009-09-30 20:27
If rybka 4 book is gonna be like rybka 3 book and you're looking for pure strength, then just skip this one there are many better public books out there. IMHO a book only has a right to be a good commercial product if it has:
- at least +100 elo average score against the latest public books in the initial release, (supposing rybka 4 is +100 then rybka 4 book should be also +100 against public books).
- It should not score below 40% against any public book in 100 games.
- Has updates at least twice a month or weekly. And a description of which lines were edited in the update.

All book testing should be done with same engine, and not giving the public book with a weaker one of course.
Parent - - By Rowlando (***) Date 2009-10-01 03:49
The Rybka 3 book was not designed for 3 minute blitz games in the Playchess engine room so it will never perform as well as the "book of the week" in any of the book tests.  Jeroen's book has something that none of the free books have: width

How a book performs in Sedat's book tests is meaningless to the vast majority of chess players, most of whom are looking for a well rounded book to practice/prepare with or one that can be used as a general reference.  The Playchess engine room crowd is a very small segment of the market and as you mentioned, it's a segment that's served very well by the seemingly endless stream of free public books.  Most of these free books seem to completely ignore 75% of the ECO which makes them rather useless as a reference point or a practice tool.  Width matters.
Parent - By punter11235 (**) Date 2009-10-01 09:53
Jeroen's book is great resource. It's great if you play more openings than b97 with both colours. It has many many great lines in less popular openings and you can use for preparation for human chess. I just love it. Public books are very strong but they are about useless for average chess player who doesn't play najdorf.
Parent - - By 1337chess (**) Date 2009-10-02 12:39
Rybka 3 book now is one of the weakest book for computer chess. from pionerchess.com:

Program                                                     Elo       +     -    Games    Score   Av.Op.  Draws
  1 Pferdchen 3                    : 3357   28  28   340    65.9 %   3243   43.5 %
  2 My book 17.1                   : 3349   43  42   130    60.4 %   3275   50.0 %
  3 My book 17                     : 3308   28  28   290    58.8 %   3246   52.1 %
  4 My book 16                     : 3289   19  19   620    58.1 %   3232   53.2 %
....66 Rybka 3 Book                   : 3137   32  33   190    45.3 %   3170   56.8 %

And only 20 elo stronger vs nearest rival on initial release: http://www.sedatchess.com/scct_book.html
And they have monster hardware and rybka beta in making it, I have no beta versions and my 'pferdchen 3' got +50 elo vs nearest rival on initial release and I made it alone with only 1 average quad core pc. And best it is free =)
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-10-02 13:09
But for an opening reference for "real" chess, those computer books are not that interesting. Jeroen's book simply has another goal than just being a computer book.
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-02 14:21

>Rybka 3 book now is one of the weakest book for computer chess.


Total nonsense. Make 2 little changes in that book to avoid Najdorf (one for white, one for black) and it will beat most other books. I used that book in several cluster vs. centaur games and it worked well.

Regards,
Lukas
Parent - By 1337chess (**) Date 2009-10-02 14:39

>Make 2 little changes in that book to avoid Najdorf


First you don't change it because that's what the author's intention of marking the lines. If you change it, that's not rybka 3 book anymore.

>I used that book in several cluster vs. centaur games and it worked well.


No, that's not a proper way to test book strength (uneven hardware and engine). Plus with little games it is more like a statistical noise.
Parent - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-10-02 15:37
I 100% agree with Lukas. Playchess books seem to be about who crawls deeper in the Najdorf - it seems like 80% of the games there are around that line only.
After a while that arms race just got silly/boring, for me.
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-10-02 15:53
While it is undoubtedly true that all books show their age after a while, it is preposterous to castigate Jeroen's book on the basis of one ECO out of 500.
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-10-02 19:47
This would be a very interesting test. Sadat should run it. Its hard to believe that a book that has been in the public domain as long as Jeroen's could still be viable, but it would be a real tribute to his book if it can still compete outside of a few overplayed openings.
Parent - By mikal (**) Date 2009-10-04 14:55

>Make 2 little changes in that book to avoid Najdorf (one for white, one for black) and it will beat most other books.


You can of course send that rybka 3 book with 2 changes to sedat and test it versus a batch of public books made in 2009 with even hardware and engine, a good and simple way of proving your theory. My bet is that it won't even hit top 5, maybe $1000 on stake and I want your rybka cluster software plus $500 if you lose :-)
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / How strong is Rybka 4 book ?

Powered by mwForum 2.27.4 © 1999-2012 Markus Wichitill