I have just downloaded Rybka 3 through share-it (I bought it on Rybkachess.com). This is a single processor engine and I use a 32bit operating system.
However there is a serious problem: You cannot install Rybka 3 under the Shredder GUI (not the Chessbase GUI, the one from shredderchess.com sometime called "classic"), the GUI says that this is NOT an UCI engine. However what I bought is an UCI engine... Every single previous version of Rybka was working fine on this GUI. Moreover it should work with this GUI if this is an UCI engine since Stefan Meyer-Kahlen introduced the UCI protocol...
Is there a way to install Rybka 3 in Shredder (classic) GUI?
Thanks in advance for your help.
That's purely my observations.
As far as I saw from Rybka's output, it's behaving quite like an UCI engine unless you start giving the extra non-UCI commands, and Shredder GUI obviously doesn't do it.
So perhaps there is a workaround, but for the moment using the standard procedure it simply doesn't work, which is not normal.
Shredder, Zappa, Hiarcs, Deep Sjeng, Loop, Naum, all previous version of Rybka + many other free UCI engines that I am testing on my website are installed without any problem...
So I do not know why Rybka 3 cannot be installed....
Since you are not a novice, I'll speak a little more technical.
An UCI engine is the console program that meets the UCI protocol requirements. You can run Rybka manually, and determine yourself whether it's a UCI engine or not. You don't need any GUI for that.
SMK is the creator of the UCI protocol, but it doesn't mean that 'engine is UCI <==> engine installs ok in Shredder GUI'.
For example, an engine which thinks for a year before answering 'uciok' to 'uci' is, technically, UCI-compliant. But it won't install anywhere.
So I was asking about Shredder GUI's timeout because I'm not familiar with the program. In Aquarium, for example, you can set the timeout yourself, so you can install Rybka 3 there. That's supposing that the real cause of the installation failure is the timeout, not something else.
I'm not writing all that to insult you or something.
Thanks again for your help!! And sorry for my bad mood :) !!
Vas is going to send me a logging version for another issue, I might as well check this one too when it arrives.
Edit: there's something more sinister going on. Just my computer, I think.
In my case, I can confirm that I have only to change the name of the .exe to something simpler like "Rybka3.exe" or even "Rybka3-Dynamic.exe" and it works. I tried both on my desktop (windows xp professional) and on my laptop (windows xp family edition) and in both cases I had to change the name of the exe to be able to install the engines. I recall that this is the Shredder GUI which comes with Shredder 11 UCI (single processor) when you buy it on Shredderchess.com and not on chessbase (sometime it is called the "Shredder classic GUI" but I do not know if it is actually different from the real Shredder classic GUI which comes with a weaker version of Shredder).
>>Rybka just crashes if I try to install it in Shredder.
> It seems that there are problems with the Shredder GUI... Which GUI were you using?
You have great reading comprehension skills. :)
Turns out it had nothing to do with Shredder or Rybka and everything to do with the fact I was almost out of memory (doing IDeA with 1GB hash :)). Oops.
> Moreover with Shredder 9, 10 and 11 (for sure) comes with a GUI which is different (even slightly).
That's known as the Fritz GUI, or ChessProgram. :)
This is indeed perhaps a problem with the GUI. So Vas should add it to the FAQ. The problem comes from the name of the file. I use Windows XP 32 bit single processor. The original name of the program was "Rybka 3 1-cpu 32-bit.exe" and I copy this file and rename it to "Rybka3.exe" and then it works, you can install it under Shredder GUI...
So sorry it was not a problem with Rybka 3 (anyway it was working with Arena) but this is probably a problem with the GUI. But since the workaround is so simple (yet you have still to think about it), Vas ould add this information somewhere.
Best regards, I am going to test Rybka 3 now :)
So probably Shredder GUI doesn't like spaces or minuses in the engine name. Or it's too long for it. Yes, of course this needs mentioning in the FAQ.
> The original name of the program was "Rybka 3 1-cpu 32-bit.exe" and I copy this file and rename it to "Rybka3.exe" and then it works, you can install it under Shredder GUI...
Didn't work here.
Edit: ignore my last few posts. It doesn't even work in console mode. Probably got corrupted at some point. Or something weirder (even the one I _know_ I've run in console mode doesn't work anymore).
Do you know what exactly causes the problem?
PS: I know, that the 32-bit users are the stepchilds in the Rybka family! :-(
Solution: either rename without spaces, or create/edit by hand the XXengine.eng textfile (similar to XXengine.uci for ChessBase).
For Rybka 3 w32.exe (the only one installed yet), I had no problem on my PC, on my laptop it was refused the 1st time, tried it immediately again... and it worked.
I do not know what cause the problem and it seems that this doesn't happen for "Shredder classic 3" (this is the name of the product) as Vempele wrote above. The GUI I have comes with Shredder 11 UCI and is simply call "Shredder user interface" on the Stefan's website. But normally this GUI should be the same than the "classic" one, so perhaps it's a problem of my system. But I had the same problem on my desktop and my laptop, so I suspect that this could happen to other people also (I have nothing very specific on my systems).
The problem was that it took too long before the engine was loaded in order to be installed, so the GUI after a while (15 second, not more) stop to do the task and simply write that the engine is not an UCI engine. Once you rename the .exe everything goes normally: then engine is loaded within few seconds.
Anyway you could simply wrote in the FAQ that some people report that problems with file name could arise when using the Shredder GUI from shredderchess.com and that the simple workaround is to rename the exe file.
If it happens again to someone, he will be happy to know what to do and if it never happens again to someone, then it's just a (useless) sentence in the FAQ which is not a big deal in my opinion.
yes, I know which GUI you mean. Just wondering if it has an official name.
We've added this to the FAQ.
Are you sure you tried to install Rybka 3 32-bit? Or it was by mistake the 64-bit?
I was using the 32 bit file for sure, but it's true that a mistake can happen since "64 bit" is not explictely written on the 64 bit exe.
Thanks anyway for your answer
In fact, Rybka 3 works better than in Aquarium, faster probably because much less overhead than in Aquarium.
I bought Deep Aquarium, but it looks like I will not be using it at all, and just sticking with DS 11.
>In fact, Rybka 3 works better than in Aquarium, faster probably because much less overhead than in Aquarium.
I tested some time ago how much CPU time is used by Aquarium, not the engine, while doing the infinite analysis. If I remember correctly, the figures were about 1%. Maybe now, since we included the hash reading and sampled search, this figure may increase, but not too much.
You can do the test yourself: Run infinite analysis in Aquarium for, say, 10 minutes. While it's still running, open the Task Manager and look at the 'CPU time' column. It's the total CPU time used by each running program. Compare the time Aquarium.exe used with the time Rybka 3.exe used. You'll need to subtract some seconds from Aquarium's time that are used for Aquarium startup.
>I bought Deep Aquarium, but it looks like I will not be using it at all, and just sticking with DS 11.
Maybe you'll change your opinion at some time. Although I agree with you, Shredder GUI is very good.
I will do more scientific analaysis soon. These are just my first impressions. For many purposes (engine vs. engine, etc.) Aquarium looks to be superb, but for straightforward infinite analysis, it is much harder to use GUI than other GUIs, e.g., cannot find keyboard shortcuts for basic functions like Deep Analysis, Stop Analysis, Delete variation, promote variation, Clear Hash, etc.
Also, when stop analysis, the analysis is lost, so one has to write it down while it is going. And there is no point using Stop/Insert, since one typically wants to insert only 1 or at most 2 plies, not a very lengthy variation.
Hopefully, all these basic glitches will be ironed out in the next iteration of Aquarium. Nevertheless, Rybka 3.0 seems much, much stronger than ver. 2.3.2a based on my work today in a game I had analyzed for several days with ver. 2.3.2a.
> Deep Analysis
There's no default shortcut. You can click on the microscope icon above the Ribbon or define your own keyboard shortcut.
Esc. Or space, if you want to add the PV to the notation.
Ah, ctrl+Y. You'd have found that in the right-click menu.
Right-click on the square in the lower left corner and go to Set Personalities. Press the Clear Hash button.
You can make shortcuts for everything on the Ribbon. Hatted-Fish-on-upper-left-corner->Options(DON'T click yet)->Shortcuts.
Backspace does not do anything, but "control-Y" deletes a variation. Right-click does not show any of these things, like clear hash. "ctrl-L" appears to promote variation.
I'm just experimenting with various keys to see what shortcuts are set and will report them when I find them. The only ones I'm sure of so far are "space" and "ctrl-Y" and "ctrl-L" as, Vempele gave them. I have not found any other shortcuts other than the ones he listed.
We need a shortcut for Clear Hash.
BTW, in the Help file/Interactive Tutorials takes you to a web page that says "It works!", nothing more.
> Backspace does not do anything
Only of you're at the end of the variation (it deletes the last move) and focus is not on the tree window (bug).
For example, I'll just point out how you can do almost everything you noted. I'm doing this not to convince you to switch to Aquarium, but to illustrate what I mean under 'powerful machine'.
>it is much harder to use GUI than other GUIs, e.g., cannot find keyboard shortcuts for basic functions like Deep Analysis, Stop Analysis, Delete variation, promote variation, Clear Hash, etc.
Shortcuts can be manually assigned to any Ribbon function. See Aquarium button -> Options -> Shortcuts. I prefer to use 'Record' button there, but you can also double-click cell to change shortcut.
Delete variation - Ctrl+Y while in notation.
Promote variation - Ctrl+L while in notation. These shortcuts can be found in the Notation popup menu.
Stop analysis - Esc, or Space again.
This leaves us only Clear Hash - it can not be easily done, yes.
>Also, when stop analysis, the analysis is lost, so one has to write it down while it is going. And there is no point using Stop/Insert, since one typically wants to insert only 1 or at most 2 plies, not a very lengthy variation.
Enter during analysis makes the first move from the analysis line.
When the analysis is stopped, its results are SAVED in tree. When you return to the analysed position (for example, go back and forward 1 move), you may notice the move and score in the Status Bar in the bottom left. Move the mouse over it to see the whole variation. Double-click it to insert the whole variation. This data is not lost when you exit Aquarium.
> for straightforward infinite analysis, it is much harder
Reading this article might help you with infinite analysis:
Infinite Analysis with Rybka Aquarium
You are right that the overhead of Aquarium is a minor factor. The big problem is ease of use. As Zruty points out, Aquarium is a very powerful software product which can do much, much more than other GUIs. That is Aquarium's great strength and advantage, but also its great weakness.
We see the same problem with CA9 vs. Chessbase. CA9 is a much more powerful program than Chessbase. But for the average user who simply wants to easily do the same routine functions (copy games between databases; promote, delete variations in a game;merge games etc.) CB is much faster and more intuitive, much easier to use. (Delete variation in a game is unnecessarily complicated in CA9.)
I have both CA9 and CB. Although I have spent much time learning and using CA9, and although I greatly appreciate Hugebase, I find that I end up using CB for my database maintenance.
I am not criticising Aquarium. It is a superb achievement, a software product with great power. So my comments are like criticizing an apple for not tasting like an orange.
You and the Convekta team obviously made a marketing decision when you created a super powerful Aquarium. I certainly hope this decision works out for you, since Convekta has been (along with the Rybka team) the most innovative force in chess software in the last 5 years.
However, for a (small/large?) part of the market for GUIs, Aquarium is much too complicated and too hard to use.
On an average day, I use Rybka for 5-6 hours of interactive analysis of my ongoing games. That means that I do certain repetitive actions over and over again very quickly, e.g., start/stop analysis, clear hash, delete variations, promote variations, load games, delete games from databases, change databases, etc.
I do these things very fast and efficiently to find the best moves in 16 ongoing games. (I cannot post a position from an ongoing game.) I have been working with the Aquarium manual, which I have printed out. Each step described above is very slow compared to the very fast operation in Deep Shredder GUI, e.g., in Aquarium, I do not even know which engine was installed as the default or what its parameters are in Aquarium.
To take another example, if I want to do infinite analysis, I have many choices (Analyze, Start Custom, Deep Analysis, Game Analysis, etc., and each one alters the listed variations in ways I don't want.
From the beginning of Aquarium's development, you responded to the many requests on this board for more and more features. I often posted requests to keep Aquarium simple and small. However, I assume the market was for a large, complicated program. Perhaps someday you may do a lighter, smaller version of Aquarium ("Aquarium Lite"), a much smaller, faster GUI, quick and easy to use. Just remove many of the features in Aquarium and you will have Aquarium Lite.
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