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- - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) Date 2013-04-01 17:46 Upvotes 2
The 7-man Lomonosov tables have just been completed, but the Aquarium team is not stopping there...

Six months have passed away since 7-man endgame Lomonosov tables (named after the supercomputer that calculated them) were finished. Nowadays happy Aquarium users can access the tables from their programs online.

But does it mean that the developers of the endgame tables have finished their work? No, the research has been evolving. Laboratory of Quantum Informatics of Moscow State University took part in the development, and there are already some very interesting results.

We are happy to say that several Arab sheiks (they asked not to publish their names yet) are ready to sponsor a project that aims building the complete chess tables by 2263. The date of the complete solution has been calculated due to Moore law and is confirmed by dates of 3-4-5-6-7-man endgame solutions: one can say that the number of pieces in solved endgames grows by one every ten years. So in 250 years the whole game of chess will be considered, and the world will know at last whether White can win when both players are playing optimal moves. Some skeptics may say that the complete solution is impossible due to vast number of positions, but they do not take into account new technologies: probably soon we will use computers that operate at subatomic level. Some skeptics also predicted several times that the Moore law will die, but the law is still alive and true (and we are not sure about the skeptics).

Of course, traditional computers cannot handle such a large task. Currently the algorithm is adapted to a quantum computer. Quantum computers are much more powerful (although their results are mainly approximate, but the more calculations are performed - the higher the precision is). A quantum computer can easily solve a 8-man chess ending. So we took a 9-man KRRBN-KQBN ending as the first target as we believed it should provide us with new longest mate record.

It’s a pity that quantum storage is still too expensive (but it seems it will become cheaper) so we have to store the data using usual HDDs. Also, as we have no enough powerful quantum computer at our site, we emulate it using 65536 cores of Lomonosov supercomputer.

The quantum nature of the calculations makes it hard to predict the time when the results are to be obtained. Yesterday was a lucky day: we obtained a position with mate with more than 1000 moves with probability of 0.97:
7k/r6n/8/r7/2B5/6N1/2b3K1/7Q w - - 0 1

The exact distance to mate and optimal moves are yet to be found, and it’s impossible to say when (due to probabilistic nature of quantum computations), but both sponsors and developers are highly inspired by the results and hope to complete the project on time.

Parent - By Chaotic Chess (****) Date 2013-04-01 18:05
Interesting! hmmm :smile:
Parent - By Kappatoo (*****) Date 2013-04-01 18:08 Upvotes 1
You forgot to mention that the King's Gambit has also been solved.

Oh no, my quantum computer just told me that this is only true in every 1200th universe, i.e. quite unlikely.
Parent - By keoki010 (Silver) Date 2013-04-01 20:44
Yes, but Kilroy says that Murphys law supercedes Moores law in cloud computing so we can connect the dots, "quantum particles in the cloud structure".
Parent - By pokerpawn (***) Date 2013-04-01 22:47
this would be more believable if you published this at any other date then April 1st ! :)
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2013-04-01 23:57 Upvotes 1
This project would require the entire GDP of the Russian Federation and all its neighbors and neighbors once-removed for a few centuries.  I somehow doubt every man, woman and child of said nations are prepared to work like Heroes of Soviet Labor for generations and stack up hard drives as high as the pyramids of Giza in order to solve obscure chess positions!

(sung heartily to the theme of The Internationale)

Arise, ye endgame tablebases!
Arise, ye billions of hard drives!
Chess requires a solution;
to this we dedicate our lives!
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2013-04-02 03:39
I hope that after they finish the 8 and 9 piece Lomonosov tables, they will figure out how to provide a timely download link to people paying by credit card.
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2013-04-02 14:59
I was wondering who would do the gig this year. :smile:
Parent - By Tiranasta (**) Date 2014-03-03 00:34
Holy crap! This isn't just revolutionary for chess, it's a practical demonstration of equivalence between BPP and BQP! What a time to be alive!
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2014-03-03 02:55 Edited 2014-03-03 03:02

It isn't April 1 yet! Might want to re-calibrate-you know! "“People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.”

And, by the way-that vertical " G " over their in the right hand corner represents "Gravity" going up! :wink:
Parent - By Brice Allenbrand (***) Date 2016-04-14 15:19
Check the thread date : first of april.
Parent - By Vegan (****) Date 2019-07-23 17:50
Given the exponential nature of chess, the RAM requires is staggering and even with 18EB of memory its not going to get past 9 pieces on the board.

Even using SSD/Optane storage will choke on the brutality of adding another piece
- - By De Knaller (*) Date 2013-04-01 20:50
You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time (Abraham Lincoln). :lol:
Parent - By Bloodbane (**) Date 2013-04-02 04:25
Unless you make a career out of it.
- - By Lutz Neweklowsky (*) Date 2014-03-02 22:20
... so my longest chesscomposition with mate in 551 moves will perhaps :mad:be broken in some time ...

... but to prevent this I composed a chesscomposition with 2 moves more :wink: :

White : Kb2/Qa1/Rd2/Bf4/Nb3/Nd1  Black : Ka8/Rh5/Rh7/Bb6/Na7/Ne4/f2 

kindly regards from Karlsruhe , Germany

Parent - - By ernest (****) Date 2014-03-03 00:23
Never heard of FEN? :cool:
Parent - - By Lutz Neweklowsky (*) Date 2014-03-03 22:52
sorry... no time for FEN ...:smile:
greetings Lutz
Parent - By Weirwindle (***) Date 2014-03-04 01:05
k7/n6r/1b6/7r/4nB2/1N6/1K1R1p2/Q2N4 w - - 0 1
Parent - - By Weirwindle (***) Date 2014-03-03 06:17
Still have not found anything to force it down to a winning 7 man position.
Parent - - By Lutz Neweklowsky (*) Date 2014-03-03 22:54
... it is perhaps a long way to find out ...:cool:
greetings Lutz
Parent - - By jammy (***) Date 2014-03-04 10:04
I would rather someone just get Aquarium sorted out. :roll:
Parent - By The Wizard (***) Date 2014-03-04 15:19

>I would rather someone just get Aquarium sorted out.

Brilliant, back down to earth with a bump :grin:
Parent - - By Lutz Neweklowsky (*) Date 2014-03-09 18:46
... here is the begin of my unsolved chessproblem with mate in over 1000 moves :

1.Rxf2! Nxf2!
2.Nxf2! Bxf2!

... who can now find the next moves ? :eek:

... if no one can find out the solution the worldrecord isn´t broken ... see here : :grin:

... if someone can find out the solution my worldrecord is broken by myself ( see the 2 moves more above ) :grin:

kindly regards
Parent - - By QueensideCastler (**) Date 2016-04-13 16:40
Any news regarding 8-Piece generate process?

I've heard that 7-Men will be available on DVD this year. (Probably made up rumors)
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2016-04-13 17:12 Upvotes 2
It was recently developed by Moscow University and all rights  given as a gift by Vladimir Putin to Donald J Trump, who had stated to Putin that he would love to try his hand at chess but lacks the skill to comprehend the game on its many levels of play.

Putin,  a great fan of the Donald,  made a gift of the 8-Men to the Donald. Stating that now he  alone will have the expertise necessary to solve the end games he plays  without falling to shameful failure.

Trump told his closest  aid that only until he should gain the White House would he give up the rights to the 8-Men and release it to the public. Since he then would have the presidency to play a like game of chess on a global scale.
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2016-04-13 19:07
Parent - - By QueensideCastler (**) Date 2016-04-13 22:11
Nice joke. :neutral:

In that case it seems like nothing yet, although the technology today is strong enough to generate 8-Pieces right?

it is estimated at 100 times larger than 140 TB (14 Petabytes).
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2016-04-13 23:21
We have a little bit of a wait.
Parent - - By zaarcis (***) Date 2016-04-14 10:34
How long would it take?
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2016-04-14 11:26
Actually, Dadi would be the one to check in about that. If anyone knows it would be him and if not he could check with Victor Zakharov.
Parent - - By QueensideCastler (**) Date 2016-04-15 15:38
If someone contact Victor Zakharov and ask for the current state off future Lomonosov projects. Will be appreciated :smile:

Possible 8-men Lomonosov?

He can comfirm whether the rumors if false regarding 7-Men for sale on disc (probably high capasity disk storage) such as Archival Disc?
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2016-04-15 18:12 Edited 2016-04-15 18:16
I'll post it and see if he will respond. Okay! I queried the question. We'll have to wait now for a response.
Parent - - By QueensideCastler (**) Date 2016-04-22 18:37
Class disk can store 2.5x lomonosov tablebases alone. Quite impressive isn't it?
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2016-04-22 18:48
360 TBs each for Billions of year?! :smile: All of my bad poems & Photos  would go on long after global warming has demised the earths human population.
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2016-04-27 15:10
I did get an answer for you on your question regarding 8 man Lomonosov.  The response was that at present the  8-man tables demand too much computer resources. In short,  No practical consideration will be given to generating an 8-piece table not earlier than 2018.
Parent - - By duncan roberts (*) Date 2018-01-20 23:36
is it possible to ask again for an update ?
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2018-01-21 03:06
Good question! I'm not sure where things stand at this point in time.
Parent - - By duncan roberts (*) Date 2018-01-22 23:01
is there a forum where one can put questions to  Victor Zakharov?
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2018-01-23 04:02 Edited 2018-01-23 04:08
You can try posting him on the Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium.

I will query Victor one more time for you to see where that request stands and see what happens! :smile:


Ok! Sent a private message -have to wait for a response!
Parent - - By duncan roberts (*) Date 2018-01-23 10:21
ok. thanks
Parent - By QueensideCastler (**) Date 2018-01-25 17:53
It's about 1.5 years since last message from them, maybe some progression toward start of 8-man generation.
Parent - - By duncan roberts (*) Date 2018-05-01 14:12
Any response so far ?
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) Date 2018-05-01 15:28

> Any response so far ?

Can't you see a joke when it's right in front of you?
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2018-05-01 16:09
The joke seems to be on Rybka Forum- considering that it appears that Convekta left the building! Unless Victor has been given new instructions as to how the software is to be upgraded and we are out of the loop!
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) Date 2018-05-01 16:44
It's an April Fool's joke, that's it. The wording is pretty clear it's a hoax.
Parent - - By user923005 (****) Date 2018-05-01 19:04
On the plus side of the ledger, Syzygy bases now work to build 7 man files, and Bojun Guo is building them.
Ronald is also working on modifications for DTM.

I looked at the code and it seems to allow for up to 8 men, so 8 man files might be built with publicly available software.

On the down side, it takes a machine with 1.2 TB RAM and a pile of cores to even consider building them.  So you better have a fat wallet.

See this thread for details:
Parent - - By Vegan (****) Date 2018-05-08 22:38
i hope you realize that 6 pieces took 8gb of memory, so 7 will be 48x more ram needed for 7 pieces and so on
Parent - - By user923005 (****) Date 2018-05-09 18:52
To do the 7 man files requires a minimum of about 1 TB and to avoid disk swapping you need 1.2 TB of physical RAM.
The machine of Bojun Go has over 1.2 TB of RAM and 384 threads.
I saw a machine on ebay with 1 TB of RAM for about $5000.
But it only had 40 cores.
Parent - By Vegan (****) Date 2019-01-12 22:33
adding another piece adds proportionately more RAM required

servers with 4TB of memory are available but they are 8U boxes and ungodly expensive
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2018-05-01 16:14
Sorry, I received only that one PM from Victor out of Moscow! At this time no one publicly on the forum has heard a word from that sector in over a year.
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Computer Chess / Work starting on 8/9 piece Lomonosov tables
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