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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Who've got Fritz12? Is it somewhere near Rybka3?
- - By SillyFunction (**) Date 2009-10-09 04:27
I guess some of us have got it (now 2 days from release date.)
Chessbase don't mention even a bit about their ex-flagship's new elo.
Just like to know whether some of you have first-hand information before we see CCRL CEGT SSDF lists.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-09 05:41
There's informaion about it at the Computer Chess subforum, I'd put the ceiling at about 30 elo stronger than Fritz 11 (not Deep.)
Parent - - By SillyFunction (**) Date 2009-10-09 08:27
Then we know that Fritz's last "ceiling" won't be any higher than this much.
Its growth rate is not what it takes to catch Rybka in a few years.
Chessbase should tell their programmers to emphasize on "how to teach people with much much better interface" instead.
I had a good hope on Fritz 12. There should be an engine deserving Rybka4's rival status. Now my hope is gone, right?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-10-09 08:56 Edited 2009-10-10 05:33
Currently yes, but nobody knows what's around the corner, Stockfish 2.0 could be stronger, [Deleted], or a new unexpected engine, etc.

I think in 3 years a non-Rybka engine will be stronger than Rybka 4, Vas is just very ahead of his time, but if the competition accelerated improvement somehow, overtaking Rybka would be a possibility.
Parent - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-10-09 10:20

> or a new unexpected engine

Priyanvada.uci :-D
Parent - By Quapsel (****) Date 2009-10-09 11:01

> Currently yes, but nobody knows what's around the corner,

That's true.
I'm astonished about the strength-increase from glaurung to stockfish_1.5.
Not only screws had to get adjusted, I think.
Maybe other developers should have a deep look into the sources of Stockfish to decide, whether there are ideas they should implement in their own engine too.

Parent - Date 2009-10-09 19:31
Parent - - By Permanent Brain (*****) Date 2009-10-09 18:22
Your hope ist not gone, as there are more than two engines. Shredder, and maybe Stockfish, seem good candidates. Not yet as strong as R3, but maybe soon...
Parent - - By Leto (***) Date 2009-10-09 21:00
Onno will also be a good candidate down the road once he includes multiprocessor support.
Parent - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-10-09 22:18

> Onno will also be a good candidate down the road once he includes multiprocessor support.

what about yoko? :-D
Parent - By Permanent Brain (*****) Date 2009-10-10 03:10
I doubt it. Look at this all singlecore comparison:

Onno is good but no top-3 candidate.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2009-10-09 05:59 Edited 2009-10-09 06:01

>before ... CEGT

Too late.

It's currently 4 points behind Deep Fritz 11 1 CPU on the 40/20 list.
Parent - By SillyFunction (**) Date 2009-10-09 08:28
Oh, my...
Parent - By grolich (***) Date 2009-10-09 15:28
Oh. behind deep fritz 11 1cpu:)

hopefully for them it will increase...
Parent - - By Mark Mason (***) Date 2009-10-09 06:08

F12 isn't and never was going to be anywhere near Rybka. It has been released and marketed for the re-styled GUI and new features that offer - not for the engine. Look at the way Chessbase describe it in this article it is all about the GUI interface:
Parent - - By SillyFunction (**) Date 2009-10-09 08:31
I've read carefully and what I say is "what a pity!"
But yes, no one to blame.
Vas is proved to be unbelievably distinctive.
Parent - - By Nimzovik (***) Date 2009-10-09 16:12 Edited 2009-10-09 16:34
Visually F 12 looks nice ...however I fail to see any startling new features.  Even the picture of the 3 d set displayed at the chessbase site I already have (except for the background) from other chessbase products.  A bitter disappointment as far as I am concerned.....  I was really hoping for more.  I do not mean to be disparaging.  For 99% of chessplayers F 12 is sufficient.  However MANY more features are in my view requisite.  The latest Chessmaster has let me down in this regard as well.  The new artwork is nice and appreciated but still no really new stuff except perhaps tutorials which I can buy on CD for chess programs like Fritz.  Seriously  tutorials is not a bragging point for a program by my lights.  I should think that for Joe Common chess player (those other than GM fanatics vying for the world championship or have delusions thereof...)  that ENTERTAINMENT be a sure way to sell much more volume of the product.  I remember people saying how much they loved the old Kasparov's Gambit program because of the video of Kasparov commenting on the moves of the game and believe me that was primitive by todays standards.  I have always thought the social interaction factor of this feature, limited as it was, really gave the chess player cultist what they crave.  Remeber the Power chess Queen?  I loved that one!  I suggest -again- that similar, tho vastly improved versions be introduced.  First let me say that Fritz tried this with the turk etc.  Thier failure was that it did not speak - and it was not 'Personalized" I.E. human.  Personally my chess idol is Nimzovich.  I would love to play a Nimzo program as described.  Nimzo could, based on the computer's poistion evaluation, offer periodic commentary whn the eval has changed somewhat significantly.  Also more Board sounds of piece movement say when one slams a piece down when making a brilliant sac.  Indeed it would really be great to see the body language of a computerized Nimzo visual when actually making a move on the board with his own hand! A nimzo book should be added as well based on his past games and perhaps current theory of his systems. Maybe an either or option of current theory and his old theory of his systems book. Perhaps the engine like in chess master could be tailored to play like him as well,such as aiming for constriction and forced zugswang and blockading etc.  I would love to beat this program and hear him scream one of his favorite lines of " Why must I loose to this idiot?!!!"  or see him stand on his head in Yoga postures during a tourney as he was known to do.  The possibilities are endless for people's favorite chess players.  Imagine playing a Drunk Alekhine?  A nervous Capa when his girlfriend arrives while his wife is present?  That could be the handicap mode!!  Each year chess base could perhaps instead of a new engine release a new personality (ies).  I would say that one would require a LOT of dialogue tho to keep the program interesting and not repeating the same old thing ad nauseum.  Deep Sigh....I hope to see this one day.....  This and more features such as improved IDEA functions, the ability to make your own chess videos and database features woud do nicely.  I like the way the program chessmaster could have  tourneys be set up to test books and personalities --however they failed miserably when the program would fail to save the game scores of the tourney!!  Yah I know I ask a lot but I dare say the entire chess market - that is all factions thereof -the rookies , the pros, the addicts , the collectors, those that already own the strongest playing programs , the hustlers, the kids, the chess teachers, the public schools would all buy this described program.  Should we do a poll here in this regard?  Would that incentiveise Chessbase or the creators of our beloved Rybka or whomever?  Hmmmmmmm....... I would start a poll but do not know the procedure.
Parent - - By Wayne Lowrance (***) Date 2009-10-09 16:22
Good Grief. It looks like Aquarium GUI, very sad.
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-10-09 16:51
To be honest - this was my first thought too.
When I came back from holidays I found in my clinic they had exchanged all computers. My old computer was gone and I had a new one with new software. And Office 2007. When I first tried to operate that I nearly failed when I wanted to print a document. I went back to my old DOS knowledge - and yes - ctrl-p still worked :) But I don't like that new design - although I found out how to print without those keyboard shortcuts ;)
Parent - - By tigershark (**) Date 2009-10-09 20:09
I haven't upgraded my GUI since Fritz 8.  I use other UCI engines but I've seen nothing to siggest that subsequent GUI's are better.

I use CB 9 too. And have no intention of upgrading from that either. Meets all my needs fine
Parent - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2009-10-10 01:17

> I haven't upgraded my GUI since Fritz 8.

Ha! I was the one with the same GUI and the same stubborn reluctancy. Let me just tell you this: we are/were wrong!

> but I've seen nothing to siggest that subsequent GUI's are better.

Try R3 Sampled Search. You'll ask yourself how it is possible that you ever lived a single day without it.
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-10-10 10:22
I used Fritz 8 before switching to Aquarium. Fritz 8 is a solid GUI that offers the most important features, but for me tree editing in Aquarium is easier, that's the main reason why I switched the GUI.

However, keeping Fritz 8 and getting the standalone version of Rybka only can be quite clever indeed, if you think that your current GUI offers all you need.
Parent - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2009-10-10 01:15
The same here when I first saw MS Office 2007. But now, after a year and a half of use, I am delighted, and couldn't easily go back to the dark age of non-ribbon Office. :-)
Not the same applies unfortunately to Aquarium; it is just so #$%& non-intuitive!
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Who've got Fritz12? Is it somewhere near Rybka3?

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