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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / GM Ehlvest - Rybka. Game 2
- - By Victor Zakharov (*****) Date 2007-07-06 18:44
[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "2007.7.6"]
[Round ""]
[White "*Ehlvest"]
[Black "*Rybka"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Eco "D02"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]

1.d4 Nc6 2.Nf3 d5 3.g3 Bf5 4.Bg2 Nf6 5.O-O e6 6.c4 dxc4 7.Nbd2
Be7 8.Nxc4 O-O 9.b3 Be4 10.Bb2 a5 11.a3 Ng4 12.h3 Nf6 13.Rc1
h6 14.e3 Bd5 15.Qc2 Be4 16.Qe2 Bd5 17.Rfd1 Ne4 18.Nfd2 Nxd2 19.Nxd2
f5 20.f3 Bf6 21.Nc4 Qd7 22.Kh2 Rad8 23.a4 h5 24.Ba3 Rf7 25.h4
Qe8 26.f4 Rfd7 27.Rd2 g6 28.Qe1 Bxg2 29.Kxg2 Rd5 30.Rdc2 Rb8
31.Nb2 Rdd8 32.Qf1 Qd7 33.Qf3 Qe8 34.Rc4 Rd5 35.Nd3 Bg7 36.Kh3
Qf7 37.Qf1 Bf6 38.R1c3 Qe8 39.Qc1 Qc8 40.Kg2 Qe8 41.Kh3 Qc8 42.Kg2
Qe8 43.Kh3 1/2-1/2
Parent - - By plicocf (***) Date 2007-07-06 19:09
Anti computer game?

Paulo Soares
Parent - By Antonio_Espinosa (*) Date 2007-07-06 19:14
No, mostly an high quality game by Ehlvest!
Parent - - By Michael Waesch Date 2007-07-06 19:18
The final position of the game is indeed not so far away from the known stonewall/fortress positions.

Parent - By insipid (**) Date 2007-07-06 21:29 Edited 2007-07-06 21:39
The final position of this game looks like such a dream for white, I don't think you could put a single piece on a better square.  That said I would of course take the draw too before I opened up the tactics against the machine. :)  Really nicely played game, surprised to see Rybka let the K-side become totally closed but it seems like black was always holding the balance.  Would have been a fun game after Rxc6 tho.  Or maybe b4 at some point? 

No doubt an impressive game wherever it ends by Ehlvest, Rybka made no obvious mistake in the opening this time (ok the knight sally is a lil suspicious) yet still was outplayed. 

1r2q1k1/1pp5/2n1pbp1/p2r1p1p/P1RP1P1P/BPRNP1PK/8/2Q5 b - - 0 43

That's the final position after Kh3.  Rybka likes playing Nc5 at some point at the end here for white, with a view to eventually breaking through with e4, and that seems like maybe the best idea of all.
Parent - - By lkaufman (*****) Date 2007-07-06 19:27
     I would say Ehlvest got a slight edge from the opening and played very well, reaching a clearly favorable position. However there was no way to break thru without taking some risk, and he chose to take the draw rather than risk a second defeat. He said he would have probably played to win against a human GM, perhaps by sacrificing the Exchange on c6.
Parent - - By TedSummers (***) Date 2007-07-06 19:36
Hi Larry,

At what point would he have made this sac? I was looking at 43. Nc5 myself, however things still looked a little unclear to me.

Parent - - By lkaufman (*****) Date 2007-07-06 20:47
He didn't specify whether he meant with king on g2 or on h3.
Parent - By FWCC (***) Date 2007-07-06 21:43
Yes, a well played game by Ehlvest. I noticed the possible continuation of a sac on c6 during the game too.But of course this is feasible for a HUMAN game but only after his b3 is protected.During the game I was puzzled by Rybka's play as her pieces were slightly uncoordinated and the game  looked unrecognizable for Rybka's play,I would say something was wrong maybe she needed to be re-booted I don't know.But a well played game by Ehlvest.
Parent - - By Hetman (*****) Date 2007-07-07 06:14

the 1...Nc6 on 1.d4 have been the best reply ?
I understand that  playing the opennig with so short book is directed to unusal positions for the opponent but is it not to risky ?
Might be d4 d5, c4 e5 ?! with opened position :-)
Parent - - By lkaufman (*****) Date 2007-07-07 16:28
I have other defenses in the book besides 1...Nc6. I considered your Albin countergambit, but Rybka does not like it.
Parent - By Hetman (*****) Date 2007-07-07 17:48
You know better then me what fits Rybka, that is clear :-).  It  was only light proposal.;-)

It is the other side as well, what is fitting less to the opponent.  I remind the matches Tal - Bowinnik where that factor has taken decisive meaning except Tal illness in the revenge match. It is my little experience either. When I am playing  tacticaly complicated game against programm I am falling in the troubless, always.

Match and tournament are not the same. Rybka has never played the match against programm. Junior did. I think it is the good occasion to get match experience before facing the experienced team. If the match will start it will be not only games programm vs programm but the preparation against the preparation. I hope and wish you will win.

Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2007-07-07 17:59
Maybe you should not be too concerned about what Rybka likes and what she doesn't like. It is more important that Rybka will drift towards the right continuations to restore/keep the balance than that she realizes from the beginning that she is fine. An example is 1.e4 c6. Rybka dislikes this for black, but generally, given enough time also after the advance variation, she will find on her own the right ways for black so that +0.35 will become +0.15 and -0.05. Another example is 1.c3 :-) I have made an ultra-short book for her here, generally playing a reversed d6+e5 opening, and taken it to playchess, and in one game after another, she will go from -0.35 to equality and above, because she plays these structures right (while black will often suffer with a knight on c6 ;-)). Tongue firmly in cheeke, 1...c6 HAS to be the right way for Rybka against any first white move :-)
Parent - - By lkaufman (*****) Date 2007-07-07 18:05
     Perhaps 1...c6 would be the best option against another engine, but probably not against Ehlvest, as it would simply lead to positions he has played thousands of times before. In principle you are correct that it is not the immediate score shown that matters but how Rybka will play later on, but I don't have the time to investigate how Rybka will play hundreds of different lines at 1 minute per move.
Parent - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2007-07-08 18:10
IIRC one of the games went 1. c4 c6. Was Alkele really so convincing? :)

Parent - - By Debaser (***) Date 2007-07-07 11:57
What do you think is the best point to open the position

1r1rq1k1/1pp5/2n1pbp1/p4p1p/P1RP1P1P/BP2PQP1/1N4K1/2R5 b - - 0 34

Here Chess Tiger, with anti human setting checked considers 34...e5

A possible continuation would be 34... e5 35. fxe5 Bxe5 36. dxe5 Nxe5 37. Qe2 Nxc4 38.
Qxc4+ Kh7 39. Qxc7+ Rd7

1r2q3/1pQr3k/6p1/p4p1p/P6P/BP2P1P1/1N4K1/2R5 w - - 0 40

Here Chess Tiger AH evaluates 40.Qf4 +0.86 for white D20

ANd Rybka 2.3.2a evaluates 40.Qf4 +0.55 for white D20

This is an unbalanced and more opened position to work on, waiting for a human mistake ;)

Vas, can you comment this game? You talked about games 1 and 3. Can you tell us something about anti human settings of Rybka in this match ?

Parent - - By lkaufman (*****) Date 2007-07-07 13:06
Rybka does not use "anti-human" settings in this match, only "anti-trade" settings, which you  could say are also anti-human.
Parent - - By Sesse (****) Date 2007-07-07 13:21
More pieces being traded off in this game would probably have avoided the extremely closed situation, though -- I'm not entirely convinced "anti-trade" really equates to fewer draws in this kind of match.

/* Steinar */
Parent - By lkaufman (*****) Date 2007-07-07 16:30
Anti-trade does not refer to pawns, only pieces, so it should help I think.
Parent - - By Debaser (***) Date 2007-07-07 14:53
OK, sorry I thought you were working on some anti-human settings too, besides anti-trade, like:

- Sacrifice a pawn(s) to open a position

- Prefer unbalanced exchanges

- Contempt?

- Others?
Parent - By lkaufman (*****) Date 2007-07-07 16:29
Of course normal "contempt" is in effect, try to avoid draws by repetition.
Parent - By MoKy (**) Date 2007-07-09 07:18
34... e5 35. fxe5 Bxe5 36. dxe5 Nxe5
1r1rq1k1/1pp5/6p1/p3np1p/P1R4P/BP2PQP1/1N4K1/2R5 w - - 0 37

37. Qf4 Nxc4 38. Nxc4 Rd7 (38... Rd5 39. Qxc7 b5 40. Bd2) 39. Bb2 Rbd8 40. Bd4
This is position, that humans favour against comps.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / GM Ehlvest - Rybka. Game 2

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