For a while I was not quite sure, how the organizers define “advanced chess” (they even spoke of “Freistilschach”!) as they chose the strange time format of 10m+1s per game and player and as in an earlier document they wrote:
“GAME CONTROL: There shall be an arbitration committee composed of Counsellors, GM and International Arbiters who may be qualified to determine the loss of the game being deemed to have received any aid. The Committee may act on its own motion or upon complaints laid by a participant. For more information go to the MundialChess.com Sports Discipline Rules."
As I saw yesterday, they may have read my request :) - they deleted the text in bold type, so it seems they are really planning an Advanced Chess tour. Though there will still be much “Game Control”, as e.g. players are not allowed to chat with other players during their games.
Anyway, as for anyone experienced in computer chess this seems to be an excellent opportunity to win some thousand Euros, I expect that many of YOU – esp. many freestylers – will like to have a try. There are three categories with the following top cash prizes:
A) without FIDE-Elo up to FIDE-Elo 1500 (29,312 Euro, rank 1-4),
B) up to FIDE-Elo 2200 (25,554 Euro, rank 1-4) and
C) FIDE-Elo 2200+ (20,293 Euro, rank 1-4).
In addition there are more cash prizes and also special prizes.
Probably they expect the most players joining category A; while I find it funny to consider that this most probably will also be the hardest group in terms of computer chess :)
Now, there are two reasons why I am posting this:
a) Our own scheduling plans for a freestyle tour as proposed by private sponsor ‘Highendman’ (and may be InfinityChess as co-sponsor) have to count with a strong interest in the mundialchess tour between Oct. 5th and November 10th. I suggest, we should definitely not start before the end of this tour.
b) It is of general interest for all freestylers and probably also computer chess fans to watch this event, to discuss the concept and may be to join in (registration fee is 40 Euro).
Reading the website I get more questions then answers: Why the totally strange time format 10+1, where do they get this amount of prize money from, who is the main sponsor, how do we enter our moves on that site/can we test before?, how many rounds per day etc etc.
I think I wait a bit for now...
So far all I have got from them is 1 email telling me I can now register for one of the tournaments.
If you register for one of the tournaments you get one year free membership to their playing site, this is as far as I can tell is the only way of gaining access to the playing site.
I am awaiting a reply from them on the questions people have so far raised here and elsewhere.
As soon as I get a reply I will post it here.
Mundial Chess a contestado a su mensaje.
Our customer support team personnel has replied to your support request #654664
Everything you\'re asking for will be able on incoming weeks.
The playing zone, is on testing time.
Thanks a lot for your post.
PS: May be now Lukas is interested in rack architecture for his 60 cores and holiday in Benidorm! :-)
1) Anson Williams won the only live Advanced Chess tournament that has ever been attempted, to my knowledge, in December 2007. (Advanced Chess being a bit of a misnomer here because there are no controls on hardware; this is really Freestyle). This was at Benidorm as well. The tournament organizers are for real. They host a set of tournaments every year in Benidorm, which is up the road from Alicante on the Mediterranean coast.
2) Last year, they publicized another live Advanced Chess tournament and cancelled it on the first day because insufficient numbers of players had registered. (Fortunately for us Anson did not fly to Spain this time to find this out. He did not fancy the expense involved in getting there, using up nine days of vacation time, and being alone in a foreign country where he didn't speak the language and where the locals had certain advantages...it didn't seem like a worthwhile endeavor from a financial or any other perspective.)
My sense is that this online format is their response to last year's debacle. They can host an online tournament (provided they have the server, the software, and experienced arbiters) and then make it a showcase event with Topalov.
My subjective feeling is that this could work, but it's risky. It's not a question of sponsor money; it is a question of competence and experience. It can be expected that everyone running this tournament will be Spanish-speaking with this fact creating potential communication and coordination issues. At this point the only chess server that has shown the capacity and range of skills to pull off a proper online prize tournament has been Chessbase. You can tell that the organizers are really unaware of Freestyle conventions that have already been developed (time controls, the irrelevance of ELO, just to name two). So this could be a Freestyle tournament from another planet for those of you accustomed to something else.
As I have just studied this just moments ago I don't know if we will be participating. It's up to my boss. The fact that they are prepared to pay travel expenses for the qualifiers is a big consideration here.
What worries me here its the same guys behind this tour and i expect it also to be canceled.
ps i lost flight deposit moneys last year when they canceled...
I understand, it's not "one game every two days", but one "double match" 10'+1".
Not clear is, whether tie-break is planned for each double match or only at the end of the 'qualifying phase' (= after 12-15 rounds). If a 'round' consists of a 'double match', that would mean at least 24-30 games in the 'qualifying phase' + tie-break games.
Of course, such a view is more than disputable (and I agree to 90% of the arguments already given in this thread), but I think, we have to face the possibility that this tour will become reality (with use of engines), if the organizers can achieve the minimum of entries they are expecting; it's a risky game they are playing, but I think, they have a good chance to reach their goals, as they will they will intensify big campaign throughout September. Famous websites like Susan Polgar's blog have already published the announcement.
On the other side, I remember, years before, there was another big campaign for an online tour by a Worldchess organisation (also with about 150,000 € prize funds; headed by Bessel Kok, if I am right), which has been canceled after months of promotion. So I would not exclude such a possibility.
Yet, changing the basic modus right now, after they have already opened the registration, is very unlikely; they have to stick to some kind of Advanced Chess tournament, even though they did not have a clue what an ONLINE Advanced Chess tour means in contrast to a LOCAL Advanced Chess tour, they had performed before. (It seems to me, they just thought, they could transform a local event to a world-wide online event without basic changes.)
On the other side, it would not make sense to switch to 'normal' online blitz event, as their organisation would be totally overchallenged with controlling the games. If I am right, there has never before a 'normal' online blitz tour with such a huge prize funds for amateurs. So, there is also no experience with such a monster tour...
I don't expect players to give here any (correct) details about competing. This is already part of the game...
As for you suggestion that we are being deceptive about involvement: Anson told me flatly he couldn't participate in this one. I am not sure if he fully understands the incredibly generous prize funds or the very long yet rather lax playing schedule. He may change his mind, who knows. But as of now it is "no".
In my view the time control is so strange this really comes down to who has the strongest hardware combined with the fastest hand-eye coordination and most coolness under pressure. Assuming a 60-move game you must make a move every ten seconds. That barely gives anyone enough time to make moves on two separate GUIs. I foresee the winners being greatly aided by random events: finger-slips, exasperated opponents, time losses, etc. This isn't Freestyle and it isn't really Advanced chess either; the idea here is for engine-reliant people to stumble and crash in the endgame because they can't move fast enough and are forced to play at lightning speed without a computer. It's as if Fenollar had designed the tournament to gain his revenge.
> Assuming a 60-move game you must make a move every ten seconds. That barely gives anyone enough time to make moves on two separate GUIs.
I am afraid there actually are people which can do this, even at much smaller time controls! I am sure there are computer cheaters with two computers (not just two interfaces on the same computer), which cheat even in online bullet games. 10+1 must be like correspondence chess to them.
This tournament could become a funny one to watch. Too bad that they have three Elo groups, because with out them, we might have seen "unaware" IMs and GMs being crushed by unrated players, more than once. Maybe that's even the reason why they made these categories, to protect very strong players from that as good as possible? I think the middle group with 1501...2200 will be a brutal one.
1st International Online Advanced Chess Tournament for players without ELO and up to 1.500 ELO (FIDE)
1st International Online Advanced Chess Tournament for players up to 2.200 ELO (FIDE)
1st International Online Advanced Chess Tournament for players with ELO (FIDE) exceeding 2.200
The last bit is obviously unclear, it should stay if they won't overlap.
As for the tournament actually taking place depending on the number of participants, this time they haven't placed that condition in bold, big letters. That would have doomed this event too.
time control 10m + 1s. Will be computer support useable ?
I suppose that comp. players will loose on time when the games will be played on the classical wodden board :-)
All this we know from freestyle tours, and it will be even harder for them with 10m+1s.
Chess players are used to spend some time on critical positions and on finding a plan, when they cannot handle the position by intuition. Both - thinking and intuition - is very limited in lightning chess. Serious mistakes will be punished within seconds, and mostly there won't be a second life vs. Rybka & Co.
It's easy to suggest, what about top engine players (&freestylers) will be thinking...
a) excellent books
b) excellent hard- and software
c) two pc systems (more might be confusing)
d) a 'team' (even though this would be against the spirit and the rules of the event, but uncontrollable!)
e) how to avoid time trouble, but put time pressure on the opponent(s).
It is up to your imagination to sum this up.
Yes, I know, I am a traitor :)
Seems much to error prone to me.
it's hard to invite new players to the online event with so many unsolved questions... ***
Where is the server?
When will we be able to test it?
How exactly is the 'double match' system working?
Which are the exact dates for playing?
Does it start on evening 4th or 5th?
PLEASE REPLY !"
I'll keep you updated
***Not that I really want to "invite" others, but that might be something to wake them up.
1) When will the mundialchess server be ready for visiting and testing?
“Confirmed users in our website and players, could play about 15 days before tournament begins in our app fro FREE to probe and testing it.”
So let’s wait for further information and until, may be, Sept. 20th.
2) How to understand the concept of 'double matches' in the qualifying phase (12-15 rounds)? Will each double match be played until decision (includes tie-break matches), or is tie-break only at the end of the qualification phase (after 12-15 rounds) ?
“Tie-break will only dispute at eliminatories (Armageddon), final phase.”
For the qualifying phase that means:
1 round = 1 double match (=2 games).
In total: 12-15 rounds (depending on the number of entries) = max. 24-30 games..
> “Confirmed users in our website and players, could play about 15 days before tournament begins in our app fro FREE to probe and testing it.”
> So let’s wait for further information and until, may be, Sept. 20th.
Uh oh, sound we are going to play on an 'untested' server again. I hope they did some volume testing on it, so it will not collapse under the visitor load (as happened with Infinity Chess - no offence Arno).
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