Not logged inRybka Chess Community Forum
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / Aquarium update 3.0.8
1 2 Previous Next  
- - By Zruty (*****) Date 2008-12-05 13:45 Edited 2008-12-05 14:09
You can download it using ChessOK Downloader. The resource is /Aquarium/AquariumUpdate, as usual.
The download size is 16 Mb.

The update is cumulative, it means that it doesn't matter what version you've got, your Aquarium will be updated to 3.0.8.

The incremental update (3.0.7 to 3.0.8) is here: /Aquarium/Incremental Updates/3.0.7 to 3.0.8 (6.3 Mb). You can also find the old updates in the /Aquarium/Incremental Updates folder.

HTTP links:
Full update:
Incremental update:

For German version:
After installing the update, delete the file <Aquarium>\Aquarium.ger-rs-map. We'll release special German 3.0.8 update soon.

What's new: (also available in the Aquarium FAQ)

Added features
* Main tree is now flushed to disk when Tree Options dialog is displayed.
* Hash size can be set separately for each engine in engine match.
* Column sizes in games list are now saved.
* Rybka is not requested sampled search when it is switched off.

Major bugfixes
* Fixed crash when starting Game Analysis for a new game in PGN/CDP.
* 'Load CTG' button now works again.
* Fixed Infinite analysis crash when the game was closed prior to stopping analysis.
* Game analysis now works if the game starts not from the initial position.
* Improved pasting PGN into IDEA display.
* Fixed crippled Navigation Pane view with Large Fonts.

Minor bugfixes
* Version number in the About box is correct.
* Fixed early clock starts in engine matches (the clocks started before the engines finished initializing).
* Fixed a rare bug with losing board-notation synchronisation after setting up position.
* Aquarium now prompts whether the user wants to delete/rewrite the database.
* Fixed missing 'Date' and 'Round' PGN fields at export.
* Fixed Infinite analysis bug with Chess960 castling.
* A new line is no longer added to a CQL script after each CQL search.
* Switching to wrong Engine type in the Engines list no longer crashes.
* Fixed occasional Aquarium crash when the engine crashes itself.
* Fixed crashes with changing engine list during the match.
* Removed occasional 'zombie' engines left in memory after Aquarium exit.
* Fixed incorrect behaviour when the active engine is renamed.
* Common Hash size in engine tournaments now working and is displayed properly.
* Fixed crash when the engine resigns that was playing with a multi-PV handicap.
* Fixed the text in 'When time is up' box of Game analysis settings.
* Fixed wrong behaviour at column dragging in the games list.
* Fixed column order in game lisis of different database types.
* Fixed different popup menus appearing in Tree window when right-clicking around.
* Allowed restoring the <default> database for opening commentary in game analysis.
* Fixed occasional crashes in game analysis of the PGN game.
* 'Turn' in Position search now has effect in non-DSN databases.
* Infinite analysis display now doesn't skip depths.
* Fixed crashes when changing engine settings and then loading.
* Fixed crash during game list column resize.
* Fixed occasional 'go infinite' sent to engine before 'readyok' is received.

What's next:
This concludes the Aquarium 3.0 series (unless 3.0.8 has the same fate as 3.0.6, and I doubt it).

Our next goal as adding a new major feature or two around January. I won't disclose the details yet, but it isn't IDEA.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2008-12-05 14:08

> The update is cumulative, it means that it doesn't matter what version you've got, your Aquarium will be updated to 3.0.7.

I hope you mean 3.0.8. :)
Parent - By Zruty (*****) Date 2008-12-05 14:10
Surely. That's what you get when you edit old posts instead of writing new ones...
Parent - - By Arkansaw (***) Date 2008-12-05 18:11
It isn't we are pretty much stuck with the current state of IDEA?
Parent - - By retep1 (***) Date 2008-12-06 13:28
What's wrong with the current state of IDEA?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2008-12-06 13:39

But some ideas have been proposed to make it better.
Parent - Date 2008-12-06 18:41
Parent - - By XNetman (**) Date 2008-12-06 14:58
It is unresponsive and crashes regularly.
Parent - - By buffos (Silver) Date 2008-12-06 15:01

> crashes regularly.

could you please post a tree you have problem and the settings you use, so it can be reproduced?
I have seen IDEA crash very very rarely.
Parent - - By XNetman (**) Date 2008-12-06 16:08
Well I was about to do a clear run for you..however I got an Access Violation as soon as I started IDeA (not typically something I have an issue with, a hang after an overnight run is much more typical)

I sent the details through the error reporting mechanism.

I will try again this tonight. I don't fancy using up all my system resources while I am trying to use it for something else. Even if the problem of Rybka hanging was solved there is still the issue of IDeA being unresponsive. The UI thread blocks for too long a period of time while you're trying to be 'interactive'.

For anyone who doesn't actually believe Aquarium crashes:

EurekaLog 5.0.4

  1.1 Start Date      : Sat, 6 Dec 2008 15:31:51 +0000
  1.2 Name/Description: Aquarium.exe
  1.3 Version Number  :
  1.4 Parameters      :
  1.5 Compilation Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 11:49:51 +0000

  2.1 Date   : Sat, 6 Dec 2008 15:47:15 +0000
  2.2 Address: 00F7B071
  2.3 Module : Aquarium.exe
  2.4 Type   : EAccessViolation
  2.5 Message: Access violation at address 00F7B071 in module 'Aquarium.exe'. Read of address 00000005.

Active Controls:
  3.1 Form Class   : TfmRPlayMain
  3.2 Form Text    : Rybka Aquarium
  3.3 Control Class: TfmRPlayMain
  3.4 Control Text : Rybka Aquarium

  4.1 Name          : <REMOVED>
  4.2 User          : <REMOVED>
  4.3 Total Memory  : 2046 Mb
  4.4 Free Memory   : 922 Mb
  4.5 Total Disk    : 25 Gb
  4.6 Free Disk     : 3.69 Gb
  4.7 System Up Time: 2 days, 19 hours, 45 minutes, 54 seconds
  4.8 Processor     : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU          6600  @ 2.40GHz
  4.9 Display Mode  : 1360 x 768, 32 bit

Operating System:
  5.1 Type    : Microsoft Windows
  5.2 Build # : 6001
  5.3 Update  : Service Pack 1
  5.4 Language: English

  6.1 IP Address: <REMOVED>
  6.2 Submask   :
  6.3 Gateway   : <REMOVED>
  6.4 DNS 1     : <REMOVED>
  6.5 DNS 2     :
  6.6 DHCP      : OFF           

Call Stack Information:
|Address |Module      |Unit                       |Class                      |Procedure/Method                |Line |
| Exception Thread: ID=8136; Priority=0; Class=; [Main]                                                              |
|00F7B071|Aquarium.exe|uRBaseHashTables.pas       |TEngineHashTables          |OnConfirmCar3                   |175  |
|00DEDA4F|Aquarium.exe|cDeepAnalysis.pas          |TDeepAnalysisCore          |ConfirmCar3                     |864  |
|00DEDA38|Aquarium.exe|cDeepAnalysis.pas          |TDeepAnalysisCore          |ConfirmCar3                     |862  |
|00DEDC99|Aquarium.exe|cDeepAnalysis.pas          |TDAAnalysisHandler         |ConfirmCar3                     |954  |
|00C9374B|Aquarium.exe|gaAnalyser.pas             |TBatchAnalyser             |ConfirmCar3                     |765  |
|00C9371C|Aquarium.exe|gaAnalyser.pas             |TBatchAnalyser             |ConfirmCar3                     |763  |
|00C937C5|Aquarium.exe|gaAnalyser.pas             |TBatchEngHolderHandler     |ConfirmCar3                     |785  |

Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) Date 2008-12-06 16:29 Edited 2008-12-06 16:48
What hash size are you using? What settings do you use for IDeA?

When you try again can you do the following:

1) Upgrade to 3.0.8

2) Delete or rename infinite_analysis.hsh and infinite_analysis.elm in the ATrees directory.

3) Choose a new IDeA tree for the analysis.
Parent - By keoki010 (Silver) Date 2008-12-06 16:34
Sounds like the same problem I had.  Dadi's reply fixed mine!  :-P
Parent - - By XNetman (**) Date 2008-12-06 17:01
The exception is no longer happening.
I have reinstalled Aquarium from scratch, updated cap and d2m, applied the patch to 3.0.8.
I still annoyingly can never download anything with the ChessOK downloader (I really wish this would be sorted out!), however am now in a position to see if Aquarium will still be alive after an overnight run.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) Date 2008-12-06 17:04
What about the hash size and the IDeA settings?

It's best to PM Zruty to get the ChessOK downloader problem sorted out. Send him your login name.
Parent - By XNetman (**) Date 2008-12-06 17:56
It is now using the default settings because I've reinstalled.
32MB hash I think 10s and d=1, v=5

I've tried the Zruty route. I had to get a new serial number because apparently it had been given to someone else too. The new serial didn't resolve the issue and support told me gave up and gave me a link for the aquarium update that I needed at that time.
Parent - - By Arkansaw (***) Date 2008-12-06 18:52
For the record, this can be observed pretty frequently working with IDeA over a long period of time and extensive trees. Until this is addressed, this joke of a program is practically unusable if IDeA happens to be the primary usage.

Using another program then Alt-tab back to check on IDeA progress.......FREEZE
Trying to edit pgn in the sandbox with IDeA in the background, then every a few min......FREEZE

Don't try to pin bad design onto customers by saying that they shouldn't be working with 'large' files, which are really no greater than a few MB. For now, I'll just work the old manual way on my non-perfect but trusty (and non-Freezing!) Chessbase
Parent - - By Rowlando (***) Date 2008-12-07 14:13 Edited 2008-12-07 14:21

> For the record, this can be observed pretty frequently working with IDeA over a long period of time and extensive trees. Until this is addressed, this joke of a program is practically unusable if IDeA happens to be the primary usage.
> Using another program then Alt-tab back to check on IDeA progress.......FREEZE

I don't mean to be confrontational but I use IDeA extensively (my ATrees\IDeA directory is 41MB!) and the only time I've ever had it crash on me was when I ran out of disk space (I/O error).  My longest continuous IDeA session was 8 days and she worked beautifully.  I've completed several other multi-day sessions in addition to dozens of overnight sessions on multiple PC's without freezing or crashing.  I've had a few crashes using other parts of the program -- specifically when changing engines, performing infinite analysis and in engine/Randomizer matches -- but IDeA has always been rock solid.  The only IDeA problem I've ever run into is an occasional corrupt tree.  To avoid any data loss, I backup my ATrees directory regularly but the corruption happens so rarely that it is at worst, a very minor problem.
Parent - - By Arkansaw (***) Date 2008-12-30 09:45
Well, this is one of my old backups....try running IDeA with it
Attachment: 10and13.7z (2188k)
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) Date 2008-12-30 10:22
No problem here. As I have explained to you I would recommend working with smaller trees for better performance, otherwise this works just fine. If it doesn't work for you, it's clearly not Aquarium's fault. You must be doing something wrong.
Parent - - By Arkansaw (***) Date 2008-12-31 00:38
just fine? I already said that the freezing is not acceptable. And again, blaming the customer = bad PR
Parent - - By Rowlando (***) Date 2008-12-31 01:09 Edited 2008-12-31 01:17
The tree is waaaaaay too big!  Anything over a 1mb starts to make minimaxing painful.  It looks like you might be using the default tree for all your analysis which will inevitably cause problems.  Creating a new tree for every major piece of analysis will fix the problem.  A 1mb tree isn't a hard limit, only a practical guideline and though it sounds small, it's 10's of thousands of positions so you shouldn't need to go over 1mb very often.  If I know ahead of time that my root branch is going to be wide and expect that my tree will be big I will limit IDeA's analysis to one or two root moves (marked green) and when those moves are analyzed I will create a new tree and do the same for the other root moves.  When I'm finished analyzing  I use the tree utils to combine the trees into a single tree.

It would be nice if there was some documentation that outlined the drawbacks of having extremely large trees or provided information on how best to manage your IDeA trees.  That said, at least it should be an easy thing to fix if you're serious about wanting to use IDeA. 
Parent - - By cma6 (****) Date 2009-01-01 18:34
Eastendboy, which file are you referring to when you say "tree is too big"?
My "DeepAnalysis.hsh" file is only 1KB; my Persistent hash file is 16MB.
Parent - By Rowlando (***) Date 2009-01-01 19:52

> Eastendboy, which file are you referring to when you say "tree is too big"?
> My "DeepAnalysis.hsh" file is only 1KB; my Persistent hash file is 16MB.

I was referring to the backup file that was attached to a message from Arkansaw in one of the messages above.  It was a 4mb DeepAnalysis file.
Parent - By buffos (Silver) Date 2008-12-31 07:56
Ok. I have a car and i want to carry an elephant around but i cannot. Those idiots that make cars are so stupid that i cannot do so. It is not acceptable!!!
You now mr Arkansaw its the customers fault to try to carry an elephant with a car. An even if he gets  a truck that can hold an elephant, if he wants to move 10 elephants , he has to make 10 times the route!. But certainly this is not acceptable for mr Arkansaw!

Have a nice year.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) Date 2008-12-31 09:10 Edited 2008-12-31 09:37

> just fine?


> I already said that the freezing

It doesn't happen in my case, but I already have recommended to you a couple of times that you use smaller trees. Did you try that?

> blaming the customer = bad PR

You are not my customer, Arkansaw, but that's something I have also told you before. In fact you never paid for your copy of Aquarium.

Please start paying attention to what people here have have been trying to tell you for months. They are just trying to help you.
Parent - - By ernest (****) Date 2008-12-31 15:49

> In fact you never paid for your copy of Aquarium.

Aha! Then why do you answer a cheater?

Christmas period is over... :-p
Parent - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) Date 2008-12-31 16:05
That's a good point :)
Parent - By buffos (Silver) Date 2008-12-31 16:26

>Christmas period is over...

Well trolls period is not
Parent - - By stephanie (**) Date 2008-12-07 13:51
It would be nice if you guys implement better engine-engine match on aquarium.
Like, start from opening db on pgn or any other database format in engine match and tournament. And find blunders on engine match like arena does. Some of these are really minor features, i just wonder why didn't you include them on this release.
Parent - By Leto (***) Date 2008-12-07 18:57
In the mode Infinite Analysis it is now showing the node count after each variation line, I like this new feature very much thanks for including it. 
Parent - - By yusevich (**) Date 2008-12-14 21:14
I hope these new features will include a possibility of adjourning games!!!
Parent - By keoki010 (Silver) Date 2008-12-15 15:41
Parent - - By scottt (**) Date 2008-12-16 02:28
just updated to 3.08 is it possible in a future update to fix the take back moves feature this getting so annoying that i hardly use Aquarium at all it seems this could be fixed ? but i don't know about these things , is it possible ?
Parent - - By Zruty (*****) Date 2008-12-16 09:43
One of the plans for future update is a complete rework of the Play mode:
* Eliminate the Observer engine
* Allow continuing games from database (with correct time setting)
* Save the current game on exit
* Allow playing from any position without need to take back/switch sides.

These things will also result in the following:
* Slight reduce in playing strength (as we'll use the main engine for hints)
* 'Ponder on' will only work correctly in the 'hardcore' mode (without help)
* 'Take back' and 'Switch Sides' will work much faster and without bugs.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-12-16 09:57
Hey Zruty,

You should put out a roadmap for the next Aquarium series. In the first series, we got a lot of really powerful features at a rock bottom price. It would be nice to know how this will be extended in the next phase. In particular, which features will be improved in a substantive way, what new features will be added, and you might even consider trying to make the interface a little more intuitive. :-) Of course a price and a rough schedule are always nice to have.

Parent - - By Zruty (*****) Date 2008-12-16 10:17
Well, once we have any info, we'll share it with you. Some of it, anyway :)
I expect Aquarium 4 at about the same time as Rybka 4. Hopefully, at exactly the same time (or with 12 hours difference, like in R3 case :) ).
The sequence of events will probably be:
1) We are releasing free updates for Aquarium 3 a couple more times.
2) We stop releasing any updates and start working on Aquarium 4.
3) We release Aquarium 4.

As for the interface intuitivity, I'd be happy if we made it better. The thing is, it's already extremely user friendly for me :) So we'll need some special people to do the design and hope they will be more successful.
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-12-16 17:56
I thought Aquarium 3 was done, but of course I am always happy to get more free updates.

Interface intuitiveness is difficult to design, but not that difficult to measure. The key is to bring in new Beta Testers during the development effort and see if they can figure out how to use your product with minimal interaction with the development team or senior Beta Testers.

it's already extremely user friendly for me
For an experienced user that uses a product frequently, user friendliness generally translates into average keystroke reduction (minimizing the probability of using a function by the number of keystrokes required). But this group probably represents only 5-10% of your customers. For the rest of us, the key factor is not minimizing the number of keystrokes, but figuring out how to use the function to begin with. Right now, this requires asking a member of the first group and hoping this member is experienced in doing what you want to do.

As an exercise, you could make up a test on how to perform 100 functions in Aquarium, and see how many members scored well based on how long it took them to finish each task using only Aquarium and its associated manual.

Parent - - By buffos (Silver) Date 2008-12-16 10:21

> You should put out a roadmap for the next Aquarium series

I suggest you dont put any roadmap, since i have not seen any company ever keeping a roadmap, and then people get frustrated.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-12-16 18:00
The frustration quotient for Aquarium is very high, but this isn't because of a road map. :-)

A road map, like any other design documentation, is bound to be off target to some degree, but this is more than compensated for by the advantages of having a good plan. The alternative is to muddle through the development process and hope for the best.
Parent - - By Loboestepario (****) Date 2008-12-16 18:33
The road map should be discussed only within the development team after hearing the suggestions from customers and deciding how to make the interface more powerful. Customers do not need access to the plan. That is beyond democracy.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-12-16 19:18
Depends on the sales model. If you use the R3 sales model, with a single delivery, you don't need to discuss where you're going unless you want to build up some buzz about your product. If you want to do staged delivery and collect money up front, lack of a road map translates into asking your customers to take a leap of faith.
Parent - - By buffos (Silver) Date 2008-12-16 19:47
i think that for the $20 Aquarium is asking it is giving already too much (and it does continue to give).
I do think that the first release was not the best it could be, because of the database issues, but after 3.0.7 i think Aquarium is an extra bargain for the money it asks. At least from my point of view
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-12-17 16:29
There is no question about Aquarium delivering great functionality at a very low cost. I don't mind the early release either. My complaints are all specific to ease of use.
Parent - - By keoki010 (Silver) Date 2008-12-17 17:24
Agreed!  Aquarium is very very good for the price.  And look at all the fun finding bugs and functionality. :-)
Parent - - By XNetman (**) Date 2008-12-17 18:21
The problem though is that I can easily find the bugs, the features I cannot, although I'm sure they must be there.
If I had not bought it as a package with Rybka, I would not have bought it as a standalone application. Let's hope the future of Aquarium is better.
Parent - By Loboestepario (****) Date 2008-12-18 04:48
As a 24hour/day-7day/week user of Aquarium since Rybka3 was released I can only say the opposite
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-01-04 18:19
Happy New Years to all.

I just installed DA on my new laptop which uses the Vista 64 OS and the font elements for the pieces are missing. Can someone tell me how to correct this issue or reference a previous post? Thank.

As an aside, Vista 64 is as bad as I thought it would be. Its always doing things, I have no idea what they are, and its performance is terrible, even after I used control panel to turn everything off. I'm seriously considering wiping it out and replacing it with XP-64, but am afraid I will end up with hardware incompatibilities with the laptop...

Parent - - By buffos (Silver) Date 2009-01-04 18:34

1) Sometimes windows is stupid enough to ignore its fonts (very old bug). If this is the case, then just open the windows folder where all your fonts are installed. Just that. Then start Aquarium and see if its ok.
2) If one does not work, then (guessing that the fonts where not copied for some reason to the fonts folder)  copy and paste the fonts, from Aquarium fonts folder to windows fonts folder (you can find it through Control Panel), and then just open the fonts folder as in step 1.

It should work now. If not post again.

And happy new year to you too. :)
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-01-04 20:54
Thank's. I will try these out and hope for success. Otherwise I will have to learn to equate some rather odd characters with the pieces. :-)

Parent - By buffos (Silver) Date 2009-01-04 22:43
Well although i can perfectly see the pieces , i prefer letters :)
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / Aquarium update 3.0.8
1 2 Previous Next  

Powered by mwForum 2.27.4 © 1999-2012 Markus Wichitill