> This discussion looks like a complete mess, I see wild statements like:
>
>> --I noted earlier that the history initialization was different. Strelka and Rybka 1.0 are the same here, using memset(History, 256, 12 * 64 * sizeof(int)); But what I didn't notice is, 256 is out of range for an unsigned char. So that code is the same as Fruit's memset(History, 0, 12 * 64 * sizeof(int)); Why would Rybka 1.0 have 256? Is it the optimizer gone wild, or a deliberate attempt at obfuscation?

OK, fair enough, that was wrong. I was thrown off by Strelka's memset--which is an incorrect translation of the Rybka code. More correct is for (x = 0; x < 864; x++) History[x] = 256; Memset works with bytes, but the Rybka code (rep stosd) works on ints (double words).

> enerally, code theft is easy to show - just show the two sections of identical code, side-by-side. There isn't much to debate in such cases. Rybka is of course original (with some accepted exceptions like bit scans & bit counters, etc). Strelka contains Rybka code. Whether Strelka also contains Fruit code, I don't know and don't really care.

Agreed. Strelka is a Frankenstein. Some of Rybka, maybe some of Fruit and who knows what else.

could you comment please on this post of fadden

http://64.68.157.89/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20730&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=strelka&topic_view=flat&start=30

Rick Fadden

By the way, some people are using the word "clone", and from past experience clone is used for a more mellow activity than this.

About the word "clone" in the context of a chess program:

Long ago some people took the open source code of Crafty and they changed some of the strings output by the program and they compiled and used the resulting binary, and these programs were identified as clones.

Fruit 2.1 open source was used with new developments or improvements and the result is considered a clone of Fruit.

Take a version of Fritz that plays 2850 uniprocessor 32 bit and disassemble it and completely recreate the C of the Original Fritz, and call this program "Jury" and then claim that you have made one of the best programs on the planet.

I wouldn't describe that as a clone of Fritz, that's a stolen, reverse engineered Fritz, and the result is a Fraud.

Stelka is not a clone, it's a Fraud. It is a direct Reverse Engineer of Rybka, and I can show you the exact constants, the exact math taken from Rybka, every function call in exactly the same location being passed exactly the same arguments, the same values and the same constants. A *direct* reverse engineering effort. There is no original content in Strelka, it is all a direct rip-off with some chunks of stuff left out.

I found one specially commented line of code that was not in Rybka, and then we found that line of code came from Fruit.

What a pure and complete rip off.

----

When I put on my temporary "reverse engineer" hat I also say that it was an amazing feat of reverse engineering. To do this effort would have taken me a year of effort. I think the person Jury or whoever, has some excellent skill.

I probably shouldn't say this but honestly I am now reading Rybka like a complete "open book." There is one reason why I can see everything. Because I used Strelka as the "primer" (similar to the use of the term in the movie "Contact"). With the "primer" in hand I was able to label every single variable in Rybka, and the position of these variables lines up in the same order as the variables in Strelka. It's spooky. All functions are called in exactly the same order, from the same functions.

There is no coincidence here because all of the wired constants in the x86 code are in Strelka in exactly the same spot. I'm saying the "primer" showed me everything, it completely exposed all of Rybka.

I was able to find all details of Node Count, and I was then able to patch Rybka to remove the node count obfuscation. Before I had the "primer" in my hand I could not have done this, I could not have labeled all of the varibales in Rybka. Strelka 2.0 is the primer it is the "open book" of Rybka.

V.Rajlich: Whether Strelka also contains Fruit code, I don't know and don't really care.
How can you say you don't care about Fruit parts in Strelka when you claimed Strelka as your engine?

Sounds like it was a Freudian slip!

Yeah, the same kind of mistake Vas did when he "lost" the sources of the first versions of Rybka.

this behavior is not uncommon for
children and feudal censorship. only
confirms the theory of double moral. thx anyway

Here's a backup.

EDIT - Here's a backup of page 2.

> a new subforum called <opposite of edge>

Sorry, I think we've already exhausted those resources.

But for such a forum I'd suggest the name: The Inside.

How ironic. Because no one will read them now, either.

I see that Fabien Letouzey is very active at CCC. He was talking about the thread that you said it vanished. Some Dr. Deep was fabricating some story about Vas saying he met Fabien in 2005. But no one seems to know about that except Wael. Then Fabien asked about the vanished thread as to its whereabouts

I'm glad how he handles all this mess with an open mind. Haaa!! I saw another post that says Banned For Life interviewed Vasik. Shocking how people could twist the facts!!

Jeremy is right, this is what people coming to this thread with new posts are seeing:



They'd have to keep clicking the [+] of each branch to read it, or mark all forums old and read and then enter the thread again to see all branched expanded. So, just a link would have been better, even without the accident.