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- - By Dennis Breder (***) Date 2008-08-06 10:18 Edited 2008-08-06 10:35
Hello !
Could anybody post a list of features (especially the features that could be useful for analysis) for a) Deep Rybka 3 stand alone with Deep Fritz 11 GUI b) Deep Rybka 3 from ChessBase c) Deep Rybka 3 with Aquarium GUI ?
And how about updates in these three cases ?
Another important question for me would be if it is possible to convert books / games saved with Aquarium GUI into ctg / cbh format.

Dennis
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-08-06 11:41
Hi Dennis - nice to see you posting in our forum again :)

Another important question for me would be if it is possible to convert books / games saved with Aquarium GUI into ctg / cbh format.
It's not. You won't need the ctg format anymore. Currently you can open ctg books in Aquarium but not edit them. However, in future updates a possibility to edit those books by creating a second Aquarium book with the changes is planned.

And how about updates in these three cases ?
a and b won't get major updates- only bugfixes maybe. For Aquarium major updates are planned. As for Rybka 3 as engine, there are no updates planned. So the next version will be Rybka 4 next year (or later :) ).

Could anybody post a list of features (especially the features that could be useful for analysis) for a) Deep Rybka 3 stand alone with Deep Fritz 11 GUI b) Deep Rybka 3 from ChessBase c) Deep Rybka 3 with Aquarium GUI ?
I recommend Aquarium, since it supports Rybka 3's special features and has some nice things with the tree format and Infinite Deep Analysis (see the demo version:  http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=5583 - IDeA works only in early opening positions correct there, just a demo :) . To edit the colours in the tree you can use the numbers 2-5 on your keyboard and browse with the arrow keys. You will see :) ).
Aquarium is a completely new interface and since you already got Fritz 11, you get more when purchasing Aquarium.

Rybka 3 from Chessbase is quite similar to Fritz 11, only some special Rybka features are implemented. the special monte carlo thing is just in the chessbase interface at the moment, but soon the specifications will be published and then Aquarium will also support the Chessbase features. There are also some Rybka 3 extensions that are only used in Aquarium (some hash things).
Parent - - By Dennis Breder (***) Date 2008-08-06 12:14
Hi Feilx, thanks for your clear answer.

One more question: Is the monte carlo feature similar to "random rybka", which was already available in earlier Rybka versions ?  I assume there is no "random rybka 3" that can be used with Aquarium GUI.
So the main disadvantage of Rykba 3 with Aquarium would be for me that I cannot really work on my already created books/trees (I can not change them with Aquarium) and that I cannot load my analyisis which are saved in cbh - format.

There are also some Rybka 3 extensions that are only used in Aquarium (some hash things).
Could you please explain in more detail :) These "hash things" like persistent hash seem to be important features.
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2008-08-06 12:21 Edited 2008-08-06 12:23

> and that I cannot load my analyisis which are saved in cbh - format.


You can. You can't edit without converting, though.

>There are also some Rybka 3 extensions that are only used in Aquarium (some hash things).
>Could you please explain in more detail  These "hash things" like persistent hash seem to be important features.


You can browse the hashtable and change its contents.
Parent - By Zruty (*****) Date 2008-08-06 12:26
Persistant hash is a UCI-standard feature that is available in both GUIs (Fritz and Aquarium). More info can be found on Rybka's user area.

Felix was referring to the hash table read-write access that is probable only in Aquarium.
You can view the hash table values for all positions and also change them, to direct Rybka's search in desired direction.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-08-06 12:32
"Is the monte carlo feature similar to "random rybka", which was already available in earlier Rybka versions"
Yes, it's similar. The randomizer still works with Rybka 3 afaik (also in Aquarium), but the new Monte Carlo is slightly different and faster. However, Aquarium will support that soon after the specification is open.

" I cannot load my analyisis which are saved in cbh - format."
You can. Opening cbh bases is no problem.

Buit yes, you would have to change the book format. You will see that the Aquarium format is better than ctg, and while you enter your lines (which is quite fast with the arrow and number keys) you will learn the openings better, which I experienced after I decided to give up my ctg tree. And you can still open your old analysis tree if you want.

"Could you please explain in more detail  These "hash things" like persistent hash seem to be important features."
The persistent hash is of course working in any GUI, but in Aquarium you can add the information stored in it as column in the tree. I'm not sure if this is really helpful, but ok :)
Parent - - By Dennis Breder (***) Date 2008-08-06 13:55
Some more questions :)
a) What about "Sampled Search", does Rybka Aquarium support anything similar ?
b) Does Deep Fritz 10 / 11 run with the Aquarium GUI ?
c) I read that books/trees created with the Aquarium GUI can be converted into ctg trees (but not the other way around). Is that correct ? Are any information lost by converting ?
d) Can I open games (cbh-format) saved with the Aquarium GUI later with a Fritz GUI (after converting) ?
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2008-08-06 14:01
a) Yes.
b) No.
c) No, ctg can be converted to the Aquarium format but not back. Learning data is lost.
d) Yes (not sure if Aquarium can convert to cbh, but pgn is definitely possible).
Parent - - By Omega-three (**) Date 2008-08-11 12:56

> ctg can be converted to the Aquarium format


I have seen you mention this a few times in various threads, however I have also read that a converter is planned for the future, so unless I have misunderstood, at this present time ctg files cannot be converted to aquarium.

Please confirm.

Regards

Mike
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2008-08-11 13:01
Confirmed: not yet (a converter exists, but currently only the developers have it).
Parent - By buffos (Silver) Date 2008-08-06 14:22

> b) Does Deep Fritz 10 / 11 run with the Aquarium GUI ?


Fritz runs only in chessbase gui. Its a closed format engine that does not support UCI. You decide if this is good or bad. I think its the only engine with such a problem

> c) I read that books/trees created with the Aquarium GUI can be converted into ctg trees (but not the other way around). Is that correct ? Are any information lost by converting ?


ctg is a chessbase format. Aquarium can read the format but not write. This happens with all closed format (i think). Reading .hsh format in chessbase gui i think is chessbase's work

d) hopefully here we have no conversion problems. We have the pgn format so we can communicate. You can read cbh format but not write (as i said before for closed formats)
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-08-06 14:28
@c) Btw., a converter from ctg to Aquarium format is planned. There is already something for that but it's not yet released.

d) Converting cbh to Aquarium's format is no problem, to open the Aquarium files in Chessbase then you have to save them as pgn and convert them to cbh in Chessbase.

Btw., what do you want to do with Fritz? :)
Parent - - By Dennis Breder (***) Date 2008-08-07 08:16 Edited 2008-08-07 08:18
Thanks again for the answers.

Btw., what do you want to do with Fritz? :)

Fritz is a good old friend of me ! :)

@c) Btw., a converter from ctg to Aquarium format is planned. There is already something for that but it's not yet released.

That would be good news.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-08-07 09:41
If you want a second oppinion by an engine, why not using Toga II 1.4.1SE - it seems to be a strong engine and is for free.
Parent - - By pokerpawn (***) Date 2008-08-11 12:55
do you have a link where i can download the latest version , i only found earlier versions
Parent - - By pokerpawn (***) Date 2008-08-11 13:15
an ICC optimized version ? hmm :)
thx a lot
Parent - By pokerpawn (***) Date 2008-08-11 17:44
nice Rybka 3 32bit SP - TogaII 5.5-0.5
3 min games :)
Parent - - By Arkansaw (***) Date 2008-08-11 12:28
Fritz 11 comes with very fanciful coloured arrows :p
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-08-11 13:08
How could I forget that? ;)
Parent - - By Wayne Lowrance (***) Date 2008-08-11 19:41
Howdy, you got my attention with the cbh conversion. I have been unable to convert my fritz cbh files to aquarium dsn files into databases..... can you comment please
Wayne
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-08-11 19:57
Ehm why didn't it work? Were it quite large files (this takes some time)? Mayb you should write in the Aquarium forum if it's more complicated. I remember converting is no problem, tested it with the mega database, robert converted a 10 million games database.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-08-06 20:31 Edited 2008-08-06 20:34
maybe I was wrong with the hash features, one allows also to set a value for a position so that you can direct the search in certain directions, this could be useful but I didn't know about it...
Parent - - By Dennis Breder (***) Date 2008-08-11 11:37
One last question:

There is a special offer, if one orders both, Deep Rybka 3 Aquarium and Chess Assistent. Are there any additional features useful for analysis if one uses Chess Assistent GUI instead of Aquarium GUI ?
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-08-11 12:23
Chess Assistant 10 is basically an updated CA9 which has some nice database functions. However, from analysis point of view Aquarium is superior.
I would go with Aquarium at the moment and wait what they do with Chess Assistant. The plan was to create an Aquarium with special database functions but I don't know what will happen.

I wouldn't recommend using Chess Assistant instead of Aquarium GUI for you. it could be an addition, but personally I don't use CA because it doesn't run under Wine (linux) at the moment (and the board graphics are ugly :) ).
Parent - - By Arkansaw (***) Date 2008-08-11 12:32
If you work a lot with databases, something other than Aquarium is definitely needed, either chessbase or chess assistant

Aquarium was advertised as a GUI made specially for Rybka, so for them to expand it into something like Fritz+Chessbase, will be quite unlikely. Even if they really want to do that, they still need to settle existing problems
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-08-11 12:49
Yes, it's focus was not on using databases and there is still some work to do in that area in Aquarium.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Rybka stand alone/Rybka Aquarium/Rybka Chessbase

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