Not logged inRybka Chess Community Forum
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Rybka 3 book information
- - By Venator (Silver) Date 2008-07-19 12:02
Dear Rybka fans,

The Rybka 3 and Rybka 3 book announcement yesterday also surprised me (as I didn't know when it would be coming!), so it is time to give some information. I have tried to be as complete as possible, forgive me if this doesn't answer all the questions.

Rybka 3 book info

Credits
- Vas and Larry: for the brilliant Rybka 3 engine that found so many novelties, nice ideas and refutations.
- Dagh Nielsen: for the very inspiring preparation sessions and all the great stuff you found in the Najdorf.
- IM Merijn van Delft: for the breath taking Petroff novelty I was allowed to use.
- IM Iweta Rajlich: for providing me with some nice analysis and exciting opening material.
- My Q6600: no good book without good hardware :-)
- Playchess engine room: without all you guys this book would never exist!
- ChessBase: for selling my book and giving me this opportunity.

What can you expect
- The Rybka 3 book is a combination of the best GM games and computer games of the past few years.
- I worked on it for 6.5 months, on average I put around 4 times more hours and effort in this new book when compared with RybkaII.
- It contains a lot of novelties, original analysis and new ideas.
- It is thoroughly computer checked.
- Improvements were made on a daily basis, with the help of 8000 test games being played and analysed.
- The book has been tested against a wide variety of other books.
- You will find improvements on Playchess theory in it, as well as refutations of some popular Playchess lines.
- Although I have a private book, I have made no concessions with the Rybka 3 book, i.e. all the good stuff I found during testing and analysing is in the book.

Availability
- The Rybka 3 book is in ctg-format and will be exclusively available through ChessBase.

Why stand alone
- With the Rybka 3 book I want to reach a very broad chess audience:

A) Hobby players
B) Club players
C) Correspondence players
D) Tournament players
E) International masters and grandmasters
F) Chess enthousiasts who like to play engine-engine matches
G) ChessBase 8/9/10 users
H) ChessBase engine users who don't want to have Rybka, but are interested in updating their books
I) Aquarium users
J) All other people interested in the latest opening theory

- Once it was clear to me that this was my goal and greatest wish, I verified the possible options.
- As the book was in ctg-format, the agreement with ChessBase was by far the most logical step for me.
- A stand alone product will put more emphasis on the book and its pro's, this would not have been the case when incorporated in the Rybka 3 package.
- Only with a stand alone product I can reach the audience mentioned above.
- For me earning a little extra is nice, but I must confess that the PR and the exposure generated are far more thrilling for me :-).

Of course I fully understand that people expected Rybka3.ctg to be in the Rybka 3 package. I hope that I made clear what my considerations were and why I made the step. In any case I can tell you that I gave my very best to make Rybka3.ctg possible and that the ChessBase agreement was a huge boost to make it even better. I hope you will enjoy the new Rybka book :-)
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-07-19 12:17
" IM Merijn van Delft: for the breath taking Petroff novelty I was allowed to use."
I'm sure Anand will be very interested in it :)
Parent - - By Kapaun (****) Date 2008-07-19 12:30
I can understand very well that you were looking for a little financial reward for your work. But if you really think you will reach a broader audience this way my guess would be that you bargained with lemons, as we say in Germany.
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-07-19 12:36
we will see :)
Parent - By Permanent Brain (*****) Date 2008-07-19 12:41

> - With the Rybka 3 book I want to reach a very broad chess audience:
>
> A) Hobby players
> B) Club players
> C) Correspondence players
> D) Tournament players
> E) International masters and grandmasters
> F) Chess enthousiasts who like to play engine-engine matches
> G) ChessBase 8/9/10 users
> H) ChessBase engine users who don't want to have Rybka, but are interested in updating their books
> I) Aquarium users
> J) All other people interested in the latest opening theory


A very good and respectable approach, and an appreciable bandwidth of purposes.

For the future, I wonder if two versions of such a book would be even better: One with, and another one without engine related (i.e. Rybka specific) considerations and adjustments. I don't know if that is possible to create, in practice.

But for now, your description sounds very good and I guess that (for example) many titled players could benefit from the Rybka 3 book, for their own repertoire.
Parent - By Thomas Wallendik (**) Date 2008-07-19 13:44
Hi Jeroen,

you have make a great job and i like your Books. For Rybka 2.3.2a in my round-robin-tournaments i only used the RybkaII.CTG-Book.
It seems, the book is really strong, and i order the Book Rybka III.CTG from my Dealer, Fa. Schach Niggemann in Germany.

I think, the Fritz-CB-GUIS a very important for many persons, but for the power-users in this and the other forums are the Versions from Convekta and the Stand-Alone-Versions more important then they from Chessbase.

But i'am a great Chessbase-Fan. I think, a very good book, with special prepared-opening-lines (only hand-tuned) is important for a good results in the games of my round-robin-tournaments.

I wish you from all the best and i order the complete Rybka3-ChessBase-Packages (include the CTG-Book) at the End of August 2008. Maybe the Convekta-Versions too, but when the CB-Versions runs very well i don't need the Convekta-Versions.

Regards,
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2008-07-19 14:10
Will the book be able to be imported into Aquarium?
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2008-07-19 14:14
glad you asked this question.
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2008-07-19 14:19
Read-only.
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2008-07-19 14:19
My understanding is that Aquarium will read a ctg but you wont be able to use any of the learning features.
Parent - - By garyf919 (**) Date 2008-07-19 23:44
What will happen, if I have just bought and installed Hiarcs 12 from Chessbase and it has installed the Hiarcs book and program on my PC in the mydocs folder
and then I buy and install the Chessbase Rybka 3 package that includes the Rybka book 3 on top of this? Will I lose the Hiarcs book or will they exist as
separate books depending on which engine I choose to run?

Another question, for Harvey. The version of Hiarcs that I received from Chessbase is called Deep Hiarcs version 12 (March 17 2008). Is this the latest version?
I thought I read somewhere about a 12.1 version being out and that it was a free upgrade.

Parent - By Kapaun (****) Date 2008-07-20 06:37
Seems you are talking about Vista. Well, with XP and older Fritz GUIs books always did exist separately, and honestly I can't imagine any sane reason why this should have changed. But then, what's sane in this world - and in chess particularly....?
Parent - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2008-07-20 14:38
The CB R3 package does not include the book. However installing R3 and the bookif you buy it wont overwrite any existing books. 12.1 has been sold to Mac customers nobody has received a free update.
Parent - - By Omega-three (**) Date 2008-07-19 14:38
I presume both the full chessbase and aquarium package will include some sort of book, maybe the rybka 2 book ?

Mike
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2008-07-19 14:41
In conversations with Jeroen the Chessbase Rybka3 package has a general CB book (general.ctg).  I am ordering the Rybka3.ctg book, in general, I use Jeroen's books as a guide for my own.
Parent - - By Omega-three (**) Date 2008-07-19 14:43
Just found this by Victor Zakharov

Aquarium release will include books based on 3 500 000 games (d2m) and tens millions of Rybka analyzed positions (CAP). This book is wide enough, so it is hard to trap the program with some specialized book.
Testing of the book early in 2008 against Jeroen RybkaII.ctg gives the result like 49.5 - 50.5 . I don't remember in what favour. Both books were surely improved since.


Mike
Parent - By Nick (*****) Date 2008-07-19 14:46
"This book is wide enough, so it is hard to trap the program with some specialized book."

Unless the opponent is using Rybka3.ctg ;)  Well at least for a while anyway.
Parent - By George Tsavdaris (****) Date 2008-07-19 14:48
The Rybka II book will be available as a free download after Rybka 3 release.
So it would be a somewhat stupid decision to offer it with the package.

The Chessbase (Deep)Rybka 3 package will have a general book for Rybka 3, while the Aquarium (Deep)Rybka 3 package will have a big book also, stronger than the Rybka II book as they have said.
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2008-07-19 14:51

> maybe the rybka 2 book ?


That one's going to be free.
Parent - - By Linus (***) Date 2008-07-19 18:07
OK, if the Rybka 3 book is a completely independent product, I have a question: can I buy it now? Why do I have to wait until August 1? Tell me how to pay for it, send me the download link, and we are done in 30 min.
Parent - - By kosulin (*) Date 2008-07-19 18:19
You can't, because it will be available only as DVD, and it takes some time to manufacture disks and distribute it to retailers.
Parent - By Linus (***) Date 2008-07-19 19:45
Too bad. This is not how you distribute software today. Even at Convekta you can download software.
Parent - By Kapaun (****) Date 2008-07-19 22:20
Jeroen, I've got a proposal. Take your time, think about it:

What about organizing an update service to your book for a little subscription fee? Say, once a  month? You were the first on the market with something like that. I'd subscribe to that at once. And I would gladly spend my Euros to buy the book, too...
Parent - - By exigentsky (***) Date 2008-07-20 00:15
Why even call it the Rybka book if it's sold independently? It suggests that Rybka doesn't need the book. You might as well just go all the way and make it truly independent by not tying it to Rybka.
Parent - - By Kapaun (****) Date 2008-07-20 06:41
Well, it IS tailored for Rybka...
Parent - - By onursurme (***) Date 2008-07-20 09:30
is it really?

A) Hobby players
B) Club players
C) Correspondence players
D) Tournament players
E) International masters and grandmasters
F) Chess enthousiasts who like to play engine-engine matches
G) ChessBase 8/9/10 users
H) ChessBase engine users who don't want to have Rybka, but are interested in updating their books
I) Aquarium users
J) All other people interested in the latest opening theory
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-07-20 14:48
yes, but there are also many lines in that book which are sidelines and not played by the engine, but analysed in detail. It's quite different to the Rybka II.ctg
Parent - - By George Tsavdaris (****) Date 2008-07-20 15:06
What do you mean?
All books have many many lines that the are not intended to be played by the engine, and they are analyzed in detail.
Although the engine will never play them, they exist, because if the opponent makes such a (bad)move, the reply of the book should exist in order to give the engine an advantage by playing it instantly.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-07-20 15:10
ok, but there are also lines which you never play because e.g. if you play with white 1.d4 and with black on 1.e4 always e5, you will never get a sicilian.
Parent - By Permanent Brain (*****) Date 2008-07-20 15:58 Edited 2008-07-20 16:08
Actually, it is not easy to completely avoid the Sici by book editing. I tried to "deactivate" all 2.Nf3-Sicis in an experimental book for Playchess' engine room. There are many transpositions possible, some of which are surprising.

For example: 1.d4 c5 2.e4 cxd4 3.Nf3 Nc6

2.e4 is unusual, but the black book has no control over it. But should I abandon 1...c5 after 1.d4, because of this possibility?

Or simply: 1.Nf3 c5 2.e4. Also, I kept 2.c3 and 2.Nc3 variations, but after 2.Nc3 there are transpositions to 2.Nf3 variations.

I had the impression that the opposing books in the engine room tried to get into Sicis by all means. :-)
Parent - - By George Tsavdaris (****) Date 2008-07-20 16:02 Edited 2008-07-20 16:06
So if i always play as white 1.d4 and as black i would always respond to 1.e4 with 1...e5, then why to bother covering the Sicilian (1.e4 c5) in the book(assuming no transpositions are possible in order to have your point)?  It would never occur(of course the lines you gave was an example, and as such i treated it, i'm not saying the Sicilian is not covered in the R3 book) in the engine play.

So by covering it, as also by covering other responses like Caro-Kann for example and since it would never occur, it's just a waste of time. And since this is a book specially designed for Rybka 3, i think the time that has been spent in covering all those lines that would never occur in Rybka's 3 games, is worthless and it could instead be spent by covering lines that can actually occur in Rybka's 3 games and that would have a more positive effect in the strength of the book.

If the book is created as an educational tool then the time spent in lines that would never occur in Rybka's games is not a problem, and it is correct that it covers these lines. But if it's created as the best book for Rybka, then the time should be spent more effectively and the time that have been spent in lines that would never occur, should be spent in lines that would occur.
Parent - - By Permanent Brain (*****) Date 2008-07-20 16:10

> It would never occur


1.Nf3 c5 2.e4 :-) (just one example of many possible transpositions leading to 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 variations)
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2008-07-20 16:12
I think that he is saying that he wouldn't play 1...c5 or 1.Nf3 or 2.e4 in those situations.
Parent - By George Tsavdaris (****) Date 2008-07-20 16:13
Yes i know but i've said "assuming no transpositions are possible".
If transpositions were possible then F.Kling's point would have no meaning.
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-07-20 16:11
It was maybe a bad example and I actually just wanted to express that the book is just broader.
Parent - - By erickie Date 2008-07-23 14:11
Availability
- The Rybka 3 book is in ctg-format and will be exclusively available through ChessBase


What about chesscentral? you can buy it there also..

http://www.chesscentral.com/Rybka-3-Opening-Book-p/rybka-3-book.htm
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2008-07-23 14:14
Note the ChessBase logo on it...
Parent - By erickie Date 2008-07-24 22:52
my bad:0
Parent - - By erickie Date 2008-07-31 14:10
Why is the release of this "standalone book" also delayed, as the Rybka3 engine release.
I dont get it. I purchased the Rybak3.ctg. And am not going to buy the Rybka3 engine as of now. So why do i have to wait for the engine to be made bugfree?
I only want the Book..I am very unhappy with this. If its really standalone than there should not be any delay. Jeroen hasnt mentioned anywere that the book needs further work.
Jeroen Plz explain.....
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2008-07-31 14:25
I suspect because if it is released before Rybka 3 the book cookers will have time to find holes in it before R3 is released. To me it makes perfect sense to wait and release both at the same time.
Parent - - By Kapaun (****) Date 2008-07-31 14:38
Yes. Although it will anyway only be a matter of one or two weeks.
Parent - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2008-07-31 14:53
It my also be that all the DVDs will be made at the same time to save money and it does not exist yet.
Parent - By erickie Date 2008-07-31 15:42 Edited 2008-07-31 15:44
Allot of people who Jeroen is trying to reach with his book dont have anything to do with engine play at all. So the theory if people findings wholes in the book before the Rybka3 engine release, only supports the idea that the book isnt "standalone " att all. But just a reason to make money off of it. Wich is oke really. But if you sell it as "standalone" you should go the whole 9 yards. And not be subjected to delay because of any engine's delay.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Rybka 3 book information

Powered by mwForum 2.27.4 © 1999-2012 Markus Wichitill