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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Rybka 3 - some info
- - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2008-07-19 07:00
My mailbox is getting swamped with questions. Everyone can expect to go to www.rybkachess.com early next week for all relevant Rybka 3 business & marketing information.

The basic overview is:

1) Rybka 3 will be carried by three parties: Convekta, ChessBase, and rybkachess.com.
2) ChessBase will carry Rybka + Fritz interface on DVD. rybkachess.com will carry standalone Rybka UCI for download. Convekta will carry (up to) six combinations - with & without interface, Chess Assistant 10 & Aquarium interfaces, download & DVD.
3) The three releases are intended as equal in principle - equal dates, equal Rybka version, approximately equal prices. Obviously, the interfaces will differ.
4) All Rybka versions will be UCI. UCI extensions will be open and published after release.
5) 32-bit & 64-bit versions are included in all packages. Default, humanized, dynamic and Chess960 versions are also included in all packages.
6) Rybka 3 is a one-time release, ie. no engine updates. The next Rybka versions will be Rybka 4 in the summer of 2009. There may be interface updates - this is up to Convekta & ChessBase.
7) Jeroen's opening book will be carried exclusively by ChessBase. In the interest of interoperability and point #3 above, it will be sold as a separate entity.
8) A free Rybka package will also be available for download from rybkachess.com. It will include Jeroen's RybkaII.ctg and Rybka v2.2n2.

Those of you who wait for email responses, please don't be offended by the delays. I'll answer everything next week.

Vas
Parent - - By walden (**) Date 2008-07-19 07:10 Edited 2008-07-19 07:13
can you get the book in download form or do i have to buy from chessbase?
also will casebase version for book work with aqui??
Parent - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2008-07-19 07:45
I think that it is obvious that you can get the book only from chessbase

see point 7:
""Jeroen's opening book will be carried exclusively by ChessBase. In the interest of interoperability and point #3 above, it will be sold as a separate entity."

If you want the book and you do not want the chessbase interface then
you can buy the book from chessbase and the other components not from chessbase.

Uri
Parent - - By Arifur (**) Date 2008-07-19 07:11
Ok. Thanks for the info. So, no winfinder for rybka 3?
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) Date 2008-07-19 07:21
ohh...I'm confused. So there's NO opening book with Aquarium??
Parent - By M ANSARI (*****) Date 2008-07-19 07:48
Thanks for the update Vas ... I thought you had already left on vacation !!!  As for Winfinder ... I think the "dynamic" Rybka is the new Winfinder.
Parent - By Kapaun (****) Date 2008-07-19 11:23
Obviously not. At least not Rybka 3.ctg.
Parent - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) Date 2008-07-19 11:44
Parent - By Nick (*****) Date 2008-07-19 10:06

> 8) A free Rybka package will also be available for download from rybkachess.com. It will include Jeroen's RybkaII.ctg and Rybka v2.2n2.


This seems pretty generous to say the least, it's like a free download of the single processor versions of Shredder 10, Junior 9 or HIARCS 11 along with their commercial books! I hope this starts a precedent for the other authors to do same - cheers ;)
Parent - By Caissafan (***) Date 2008-07-19 10:19
FINALLY a clear statement although a little bit lately!

But in a fine matter: shortly, objectively, fully.  :-)
Parent - - By Sesse (****) Date 2008-07-19 10:49
I'm wondering... if something goes wrong in the final compile, Rybka starts having a really crippling bug (like, starting to output invalid moves after running for more than two hours), and it slips through QA... Will there still be no engine updates? :-)

/* Steinar */
Parent - - By Kapaun (****) Date 2008-07-19 11:22
You can call me Santa if there will be no updates...
Parent - By Juergen Faas (**) Date 2008-07-19 13:27
Nah, there will only be one Rybka 3! (Of course, incl. the bugfixes Rybka 3a, Rybka 3b, Rybka 3bx, Rybka 3bx+... :) )
Parent - - By Geomusic (*****) Date 2008-07-19 11:44
when I try to login to chessbase.com it says, "Bad Request (Invalid Hostname)"

This can't be good!
Parent - - By Kapaun (****) Date 2008-07-19 11:47
Yes, after all it was revealed: Selling Rybka from CB was just a sly attempt to kill off the CB website... ;-)
Parent - By Geomusic (*****) Date 2008-07-19 11:50
The Rybka virus!
Parent - By Kapaun (****) Date 2008-07-19 11:48 Edited 2008-07-19 11:55
I'm wondering: Will persistant hash work with Fritz GUI 9? Or is it bound to CB's package? How does it work at all? Only when analyzing? And if so, which kind of analysis? Or also when just playing, say, an eng/eng game?
Parent - - By Bouddha (****) Date 2008-07-19 14:03
Will the book be part of the Deep Rybka 3 package sold by Chessbase ?
Parent - By Fulcrum2000 (****) Date 2008-07-19 15:40
No.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2008-07-19 14:05
I think that now we're starting to see some major problems with splitting things up like this.  If Jeroen's book will be sold exclusively by Chessbase, then apparently with Chessbase also selling Rybka, there must be some things going about Aquarium not importing Chessbase books.  If this is the case, I might simply buy nothing having to do with Rybka 3, as now the price on things altogether is more than the price of my current computer, and the best tools in the Aquarium interface will not be able to go along with some of the best tools of Rybka 3.  Oh well, I guess perhaps I'll wait for Rybka 4... :-(
Parent - By Leto (***) Date 2008-07-19 20:09
What do you mean by "the best tools in the Aquarium interface will not be able to go along with some of the best tools of Rybka 3."?

Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-07-19 20:15
Aquarium can read ctg books. Aquarium will support the special features of Rybka.
Parent - - By George Tsavdaris (****) Date 2008-07-19 20:32
It can read them.
But in Chessbase in the book options pane, you can change some properties of the book to adjust its play like:
Variety of Play, Tournament book, Influence of learn value etc..... That way you can guide the book to play the moves you want and also have increased weight in some moves you want to play more frequently.

Can Aquarium handle this also?

Also from what date can the Aquarium be offered? August 1st or 4th or something else?
Also how big is the download? I guess it's less than 1 GB? Can we use download managers?
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2008-07-19 20:41

> Can Aquarium handle this also?


No, the .ctg files are read-only in Aquarium.
Parent - - By George Tsavdaris (****) Date 2008-07-19 20:43
Yes but by doing this(changing for example the "Influence of learn value" to something) we don't modify the book at all so it is irrelevant that the .ctg files are read-only in Aquarium. Or not?
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2008-07-19 20:53
No, Aquarium can't do that. E.g. it doesn't read the learning value afaik (but if book learning really helps is another question).
Parent - By Kapaun (****) Date 2008-07-19 23:27
Well, if you accept to change the book in Fritz GUI, then play in Aquarium, it doesn't matter. Unless you work with learning values, of course...
I don't know, books is not the point that would make me buy Aquarium. IDeA is another cup of tea, though.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2008-07-19 23:15

> I might simply buy nothing having to do with Rybka 3


Why wouldn't you buy the standalone Rybka 3 UCI?
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2008-07-19 23:23
Because it is $100, which is about the maximum amount that I'd be willing to pay for program + GUI + opening book.  I will have a quad-core computer by the end of the year, so I would be buying the MP version.
Parent - By Italian81 (****) Date 2008-07-22 01:44
I agree with you on this....Anything over 100 is simply rediculous
Parent - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2008-07-21 08:20
Turbo, I think I will have to wait a couple of month before I buy it. :(
Parent - - By George Tsavdaris (****) Date 2008-07-19 21:06

>8) A free Rybka package will also be available for download from rybkachess.com. It will include Jeroen's RybkaII.ctg and Rybka v2.2n2.


I would prefer if reconsidered this.
Competition will do good to you also. If with an action of yours, even having a good purpose, you destroy competition or anyway degrade it then perhaps it would harm Rybka also. I mean if you are relaxed in your +200 ELO throne and nobody threatens you, then your desire to create something stronger, something more amazing will normally decrease.

So by releasing Rybka 2.2n2 for free, which is stronger than any non-Rybka engine(commercials included) you disenchant, you dishearten, you literally lead to frustration the "competitors".
Also there is another important reason also. There would be some people(perhaps many) that would not buy another non-Rybka engine, since it would be weaker than the free Rybka 2.2.n2. That would make even more harm to the "competitors" as they would see their sales to decrease.

So perhaps for these 2 reasons, that move of releasing Rybka 2.2.n2 for free, would indeed discourage some programmers not to continue working in their engine. I hope this would not happen.
But it may happen so i would like you to reconsider your decision.... :-)
Parent - By Cubeman (**) Date 2008-07-22 01:31
I see your point George, but I still can imagine engine developers being so incensed at this action by Free Rybka that it spurs them on to make somthing better.The days of being able to have financial incentive to create even the 2nd best engine in the World are over.Most of the 2nd tier of chess programmers now do so for pride or hobby.So in effect a Free Rybka that is also the 2nd best engine currently will have small impact if any and for every negative outcome there are also positive outcomes.To get a definitve answer you would have to talk to the other commercial programmers such as Hiarcs, Fritz, Shreder, etc.
P.S I don't currently have Rybka 2.2n2 and would very much like it for free.So my above comment may have some bias.
Parent - - By kblaine (**) Date 2008-07-22 00:46
If we already have Fritz 11, and import Rybka 3 into it, will we be missing any functions available in the Chessbase Rybka-Fritz interface?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2008-07-22 01:09
The features come with Rybka, so you'll have access to them even without a GUI. But as has been noted, some of them aren't really useful without a GUI, and they won't magically appear when you import Rybka into an older GUI.
Parent - - By kblaine (**) Date 2008-07-22 01:22
I think you are saying it may be more convenient to access some of the Rybka 3 features with the new Rybka-Fritz GUI as opposed to Fritz 11, that there are at least some differences between the GUIs. If I am correct, no need to reply. Thanks either way.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2008-07-22 01:51

> I think you are saying it may be more convenient to access some of the Rybka 3 features with the new Rybka-Fritz GUI as opposed to Fritz 11


Fritz 11 has no access to the features, even though the features are there.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Rybka 3 - some info

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