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- - By Eduard (***) [de] Date 2008-05-08 19:37 Edited 2008-05-08 20:02
Bye PAL Freestyle!

Ich gehe nun davon aus dass CSS in einer Eigenregie ein CSS Freestyle Turnier veranstalten wird, wo dann die Preise wesentlich niedriger sein werden. Gut so!

Meine Meinung zum Fall Rybusia? An wen hätte das Geld denn überwiesen werden sollen? Ich nehme an, an Iweta Rajlich. Aber die war im Finale garnicht dabei!! Sie war in Bulgarien. Soll sie dafür auch noch $1.000 überwiesen bekommen, dafür dass sie in Bulgarien anwesend und beim Freestyle abwesend war? Sie war registriert und sie war der Kopf ihrer Mannschaft. Demzufolge hätte sie auch spielen müssen, das ist meine Meinung.

Und keine Bange: Meine Meinung hat mit dem $1.000 auch nichts zu tun. Wenn man nämlich bedenkt dass Iweta ein Profi ist, dann wären für 2 Wochenenden mit je 3 Tagen = 6 Tage für $1.000, für einen Profi eh nur Kleingeld.

Es geht jedoch um das Prinzip. Und hier hat das Rybusia Team meiner Meinung nach sowohl  §5 der Regel als auch §9 der Regel gebrochen.

Ich finde es daher schade dass das Team Rybusia nun auf die $1.000 pocht (siehe Statement von Vas Rajlich im englischen Forum), denn damit ist das PAL/Freestyle begraben worden! Hätten sie die Entscheidung einfach akzeptiert, dann wäre es mit dem PAL Turnier vermutlich weitergegangen.

Daher kann ich nur sagen: Veilen Dank Team Rybusia, Du hast das PAL Freestyle nun begraben. Es wäre besser gewesen wenn Du die Entscheidung der Ausrichter (CSS + PAL) einfach akzeptiert hättest, auch dir zum Wohle, und auch zum Wohle des PAL Freestyles, und aller jener die gerne weiter daran teilgenommen hätten!

Nun ist es damit vermutlich aus....

Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-09 12:18
Eduard, I hope you will consider my team's response to the ruling.  The problem as we see it is that the rules talk about the requirements of the "player".  CSS finds that player = registrant and these two words are interchangeable and indivisible.  That is a perfectly correct interpretation in a human tournament where player and registrant are always the same. 

However in Freestyle it isn't quite so simple and the terminology we use must be made much more specific than what we had in #8.  As I point out in the English section, we need very precise definitions and usage of these four words:

registrant - the individual who signed up
nickname - the name the individual will use to play in the tournament
team - registrant plus supporting individuals, if any
entity - the team plus all supporting hardware, software, IP address, connection to the tournament, etc.--the entire chess-playing organization and equipment

You will notice that "player" is not among them, because "player" could in different contexts mean all four of these concepts.  Blurring of meaning could take place, deliberately or unintentionally.

Once those definitions are nailed down, then you can promulgate any rules you want regarding how they should conform to the tournament.  At this point I am not suggesting any rule changes.  All I am asking for is a more clear way of understanding the words.  If a rule read "registrant is obliged to be responsive to TD at all times" that would be very clear.  If a rule read "a team member under one nickname may not be a registrant for another nickname" that would be very clear.  Do you see what I am driving at?
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-05-09 12:41
Hi Nelson,

Don't bother with those ego bastards like Eduard and Erdo, they are not worth your time. They didn't even compete in this tournament, yet they cry, shout, interfere and whatever they want to do to make themselves the most important of the tournament. They should be ashamed of themselves, now the sponsor has gone. Ego trippers like them are the worst nightmare for every goodwilling sponsor and players to make such a fine tourney as the Freestyle tournament to a success. And they simply don't get it. I have thanked the persons in question in German to show my 'appreciation' for what they did. They brought the Freestyle to its grave. A fine 'achievement'.

Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-09 13:52
Jeroen, nothing positive is achieved by calling people "ego bastards" and "ego trippers".  You may feel that way privately but to say that here is beneath a person of your station.  You are regarded even by Erdo as one of the top bookmakers in the world.  Let's not let rivalries and grudges get the better of judgment and restraint.

The idea that Freestyle is dead is preposterous.  Some feathers were ruffled in the last tournament, and in Rybusia's case I think an error was made which the Rajliches should let pass on the condition that rules are tightened next time.  (On the Kaufman/Komodo1 case I haven't expressed an opinion as none has been solicited.) 

There is no reason whatsoever for the tournament to collapse in acrimony. 
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-05-09 14:10
Jeroen, nothing positive is achieved by calling people "ego bastards" and "ego trippers".  You may feel that way privately but to say that here is beneath a person of your station.

I am sorry, but that is the way it is :-). And from time to time it is good to say such things. I have seen too many times that some people jeopardize great initiatives and that others involved do nothing against it. As far as I am concerned they now may FEEL what I think of it. Behaviour like that has to be set straight. With acceptance and politeness of everything we will not get far. I was (and *am*) really pissed when I read this 'Bye Freestyle' stuff and then blaming it on Rybusia. Probably unlike you I have read the German forum where these people started accusations, lies, bla bla and so forth. THEY should be the ones that feel ashamed! And if nobody makes a firm statement AGAINST this, they will keep this ego behaviour and spoil it for the people who are willing to make Freestyle a success.

OK, maybe it is beneath my standard, but I still feel it is good that I have said it :-).
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2008-05-09 15:00
you have my full support, jeroen :)
Parent - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-05-09 15:38
Thanks! At least I hope they get the message and are more careful in the future :-)
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-09 15:08
Sigh.  And I thought the formation of the EU had brought about peace and love throughout the European continent from the Urals to Gibraltar, from Lapland to the Mediterranean islands, all of you dancing together in a great big circle of joy and harmony, wearing berets and lederhosen and colorful scarves.

Germans are very excitable people, aren't they?
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-05-09 15:37
And I thought the formation of the EU had brought about peace and love throughout the European continent

Have I missed something!? Well, the european companies are probably very happy and dancing, drinking champagne etc. But not the people! In my country 63% voted against a european constitution. In a small country like Holland we are simply afraid 'the big guys' are going to say what is going on here :-).
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-09 15:51
Anson has contacted me and only said "Proverbs 26:17".  He is the wisest of us all.
Parent - - By Nick (*****) [gb] Date 2008-05-09 16:10
That Proverb loosely translates as:

"He who gets mixed up in a fight which is not his business, is like one who takes a dog by the ears while it is going by."

Anson is a wise man.

In addition to that quote, which may or may not apply to some vexatious litigants, I think that Jeroen was motivated through frustration and outrage, coming from this angle:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Which was probably not first said by Edmund Burke. 

The over-arching statement applicable here, which agreed is sometimes hard to resist, is:

"Do not feed the trolls"


PS. Apologies for my lack of German.
Parent - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-05-09 17:07
I think that Jeroen was motivated through frustration and outrage

Yeah, that is true :-). Somebody wrote 'thanks to team Rybusia the Freestyle tournament will be buried'. That was simply outrageous and I HAD to react to that! I find it amazing how some people (not even participating in the tournament!) can behave towards respectable grandmasters and international masters. They simply don't get it: all these players will now say 'thank you, no more Freestyle for me'. And *that* is going to bury Freestyle!
Parent - - By BB (****) [au] Date 2008-05-12 11:31

>In my country 63% voted against a european constitution. In a small country like Holland we are simply afraid 'the big guys' are going to say what is going on here :-).

At least they let you vote. If it were the UK, it would first be promised to be put up to a referendum (albeit, with a line something like: "We'll put it up for a vote, and if they vote it down, we'll put it up again"). But then the Parliament would decide to accept a similar treaty without a vote from the populace. [Incidentally, one of my colleagues in Bordeaux seems to have voted against the EC primarily because it would outlaw the older methods of making cheese - make your own French joke here].
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-05-12 11:48
Well, yes, they let us vote. But unfortunately this was not the end of the issue. The new parliamant decided to have some changes in the constitution and 'push it through our throats'. No more voting, because 'these idiotic civilians do not know what this is all about'. It it this kind of arrogant behaviour which puts such a big bridge between politics and the inhabitants of a country. They don't take you seriously, they don't listen to your objections. And by doing so they completely forget that they are representatives of the human population and that they should listen to its wishes. But alas, 'democracy' is already quite a big joke in the 21st century.

I recall Wim Kan, a great dutch comedian about 20 years ago. He said: 'Democracy is the will of the public. Each day I am stunned to read in the newspapers what is my will'. He couldn't have said it better. Politics are about elite and have nothing to do with 'will of the public' :-(
Parent - - By Permanent Brain (*****) Date 2008-05-12 12:28
WE are Europe. If we talk about the European Union, we talk about ourselves.

How shall the Union be able to improve it's political structure and rules of cooperation and decision finding, if voters, as soon as they see "EU" simply switch off their brains and vote NO?! We NEED an european constitution, or whatever it is called, which WORKS (better than before). It needs to be adapted because the EU is much bigger now. It also needs to be more democratic. I think that is what the Treaty of Lisbon is trying to achieve.

The constitution failed because in several countries, EU topics work as a cheap ammunition for demagogic politics.

Is the average voter in Serbia more intelligent than in Holland?

Please, don't vote us back into the past with borders everywhere, expensive trade and dozens of different currencies etc. Please, look into the future optimistically. We need to develope forward, not backwards.

P.S. Since we have many U.S. members here: Would any U.S. State vote against the U.S. constitution?! I don't think so. The difference: The U.S. have a history of 200+ years behind them (including a civil war). But maybe the Europeans should learn faster.

(Sorry for off topic.)
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-05-12 12:47
You don't get my point: democracy is called 'the people decide'. So if they say 'no' to something (and forget about the EU, this is just one topic!), the politicians have to respect that opinion! Would you assume it a good idea that politicians only go for their own ideas, without explaining, without getting a broad public behind them, without listing to what people really want? Then we can bury 'democracy' right away :-).

And as for the EU: they NEVER could explain to us why this is necessary. As a matter of fact they never did. Their arrogant behaviour was 'we will do this anyway, referendum or not'. And wow, what a strange result we got! The dutch people punished the elite by voting a clear no! Should they ever learn from such experiences? I am afraid not....
Parent - - By Permanent Brain (*****) Date 2008-05-12 14:18 Edited 2008-05-12 15:02
It is a childish and dangerous behaviour to vote against something, just because one thinks that there were not enough explanations. It that case, one shouldn't vote at all! If someone has not enough information, why does he think that NO makes more sense as a vote, than YES? Because demagogic polititians and irresponsible newspapers suggest it, in case of anti EU campaigns. But these are serious, important topics, not protest demonstrations. Democracy is not buried by holding referendums, but by abuse of such referendums.
Parent - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-05-12 16:00
It is childish and dangerous behaviour what politicians and the elite do :-). And it is sheer arrogance to blame the public for the consequences.

Sorry, we will never agree on this topic, so this is my last posting regarding this issue!
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-12 14:09
Well...thirteen states did in fact vote to secede from the Union, by popular consent.  This expression of public will was called a "rebellion" by the rest of the country and was put down at the cost of over 600,000 American lives, considerably more Americans than died in WWII, an even more mind-boggling number when you consider the comparatively small US population of that period. 

You would think the solution to this political problem was just a little bit extreme, never mind Lincoln's noble rhetoric.

I am not an expert in the EU controversy but it does seem natural to me that there would be reluctance to toss overboard the accreted customs and arrangements of centuries and put a wide-ranging number of political, social, economic and administrative matters in the hands of an unelected, unaccountable pack of elite bureaucrats.  Perhaps a single currency combined with uniform tariff laws might be workable, but beyond that I would not stray.
Parent - - By Permanent Brain (*****) Date 2008-05-12 15:01
Actually, all of them who (officially) have political power in the EU, are either elected or installed by representatives who were elected. But I must admit I have no clear overview because it is a bit complicated :-) (That there may be some people or organisations who have influence behind the curtains, is something not even the best constitution can avoid, nowhere in the world.)

I think the problem is that people do not see themselves as Europeans enough, yet. Some seem not to get it still, that it is the political Europe as a whole which tries to find the best decisions for the E.U. population. Of course, there are lobbies like anywhere. - I think, some E.U. citizens are only looking at their home country and it's familiar politicians etc., and cannot accept that someone from Sweden, Portugal or Estonia participates in decisions about the laws and regulations which affect him, too.

Also, the tendency is to take any advantage the EU provides as kind of automatical, and to not take them into account positively, only the things which some people think are negative - or maybe which are indeed negative; the EU certainly isn't perfect. But considering this, it is totally illogical to blockade attempts to improve it.

I am angry about anti EU campaigns and -decisions, because I have lived outside of the EU for 30 years and I remember very clearly the differences. Also, I just cannot get used to it how many people are so clueless and suggestible, that they vote against their own future.

P.S. Within a radius of ~2 km where I live, I have:

1. an United Nations residence, with thousands of UN diplomats
2. a conference building for international conferences
3. a large international school with pupils form around the globe
4. one of Europe's biggest shopping malls
5. three McDonalds restaurants :-)

Maybe that explains why I have no "small town thinking" at all. :-D
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-12 15:57
Jeroen's point is still valid.  Government must have the consent of the governed otherwise it is tyranny.  The "we know better than you" mentality of "progressive" types is extremely dangerous for representative government if not checked.  Within every society there are progressive elements that push a reform agenda and conservative elements that seek to slow it down or stop it, or offer counter-reforms.  In the short run, politics seems like endless acrimony.  But in the long run some changes are adopted after long periods of adjustment and deliberation, and some changes are quashed after the public decides they weren't such a good idea after all.  If you don't allow this grinding incremental process to work on its own you alienate a very sizable percentage of the population and backlash gradually develops which is manifest through street protests or one-sided votes.  You have to trust the people to gradually arrive at their own consensus.
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-05-12 16:14
To name just one example: when the Dutch government was faced with a shortage over 3% of the BNP, sanctions from Brussels came straight away. At that moment we faced the most rigorous 'money saving project' in the history of our country. When however the French, German and Italian budgets threatened to go over the 3% limit, nothing happened: no penalties, not even a warning signal! They simply got away with it. So this was a very simple and effective signal towards the Dutch people: WE have to obey the rules, but others don't. And there are many more of these examples, for which reason my fellow country men were fed up with this so called 'grand EU concept'. It's a farce.

It is very sorry but true: in the EU all countries are only acting on their own behalf. Small countries SEE what happens in the EU. They also SEE and READ that the members of the european parliament are 'money graspers' and the benefits are near to zero. So why bother with this bureaucratic stuff? The first thing what the EU has to do to become more believable, is stop the fraud, apply the rules to every country and show what they have to offer.

IMO it is very good to have large political subjects dealt with in a broad european context, like fighting criminality, terrorism and of course the euro is also an excellent idea. But to have legislation from Brussels and laws on which we cannot have *any* impact as inhabitant from Holland? NO WAY.
Parent - - By BB (****) [au] Date 2008-05-12 16:17 Edited 2008-05-12 16:29

>It is very sorry but true: in the EU all countries are only acting on their own behalf.

Very sorry, very true ... and very predictable. :-P [To make NH happy, I could quote Nock's Our Enemy, The State concerning that no government has ever been formed except to impose upon others (not that I totally agree)].

>But to have legislation from Brussels and laws

I remember a comment a colleague made: the US (for better or worse) exports its culture through the media; Europe exports its culture through law (you want to do business with the EU? Here's 80000 pages [increasing yearly by how much?] from Brussels for your compliance).
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-12 17:11
In recent years I have increasingly come to the conclusion that politicians everywhere are essentially armed gangsters involved in a massive self-enrichment/protection racket scheme.  Some are relatively benign, others more sinister.  All of them wish to limit my freedom and lighten my wallet, if not take it away completely along with my passport.  It seems nowadays that more and more nations go through the motions of democracy but fewer and fewer endorse the substance of freedom.
Parent - - By BB (****) [au] Date 2008-05-12 17:14 Edited 2008-05-12 17:25

>essentially armed gangsters involved in a massive self-enrichment/protection racket

I am reminded of the Peace Racket:
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-12 17:27
I hope you are not associating me with that grisly gaggle of Maoist totalitarians!

I am reminded of my favorite local radio station, WPFW, run by unapologetic Communists and advocating a program of "jazz and justice".  If only more Reds could get into this groove they might be more popular.
Parent - - By BB (****) [au] Date 2008-05-12 17:11

>Well...thirteen states did in fact vote to secede from the Union, by popular consent. 

I count eleven (SC/MS/FL/AL/GA/LA/TX followed by VA/AR/NC/TN), and the VA case is was partially rebutted by WV. Only if you count Missouri and Kentucky (which had secessionist elements, but never formally seceded --- in fact, KY had an unelected group declare its secession, and the pro-Confederate MO politicians were run out of the state in a popular defenestration) do you reach 13.
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-12 17:13
Quite true.  I merely counted the stars on the Confederate battle flag.
Parent - - By Kreuzfahrtschiff (***) [de] Date 2008-05-09 22:24
u r just a poor mind, i am sorry for u!

people refuse to learn from history and expierience today more and more.

they cannot read or understand?
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-09 23:12
Herbert, something was lost in translation!  I am quite a student of history, especially 20th century European history.  Do you not recognize sarcasm?  Nationalism hasn't changed a bit, just watch the World Cup!
Parent - - By Kreuzfahrtschiff (***) [de] Date 2008-05-09 23:20 Edited 2008-05-09 23:23

u dont get the game (soccer)
i watched it with people of many nations and all are for their country, but after the game they celebrate together!

americans dont really get it??
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-09 23:36
Really??  It's really amusing when drunken British football hooligans torment the Germans with "two world wars and one World Cup, do-dah, do-dah".  (I hope you have a sense of humor.)
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) [de] Date 2008-05-11 00:33
We (now living) Germans are very pleased, that we lost second world war (some years ago I have heard Himmlers speech in Posen 1943). When we see British hooligans singing, we all know, that they love soccer, but can´t play it! When they sing about second world war, we remember Dünkirchen. It´s a good feeling, to play a good sport, which every nation all over the world loves. Nothing like football, baseball, basketball or golf. Soccer is the real sport! Even better than freestyle :-).
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2008-05-11 00:39
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) [de] Date 2008-05-11 00:48
He Harvey, I don´t look to the link (it will depress me :-(). But we have other results too. It´s a shame, that we can´t defeat you in Austria/Switzerland :-).
Parent - By BB (****) [au] Date 2008-05-12 11:37

>It's really amusing when drunken British football hooligans torment the Germans with "two world wars and one World Cup, do-dah, do-dah".

I was at a conference in Berlin in late July 2006. There had been these silly broadsheet articles in the UK about the English going to Germany and drinking the pubs dry, etc., during the World Cup in the month previous. Lo and behold, the first pub to which we go only has half their normal beer selection (I'm not sure why).
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) [de] Date 2008-05-11 11:32
Nein, eigentlich sind Deutsche nicht besonders erregbar - zumindest ich bin es nicht ;)
Viele Deutsche sind aber etwas kleinlich (ich natürlich auch nicht).
Es ist aber natürlich so, dass diejenigen, die sich am meisten aufregen, auch am lautesten schreien.
Mit dem ganzen Geschrei angefangen hat übrigens Erdo (Erdogan Günes), und der ist Türke.

Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-11 13:01
Danke für diese Erklärung. Natürlich überwache ich nicht nah die deutschen Debatten. Verzeihen Sie bitte diesem schwachen Übersetzung Programm auch.
Parent - - By BB (****) [au] Date 2008-05-12 12:55

>NH: very excitable people, aren't they?

Wow, in a different thread (awhile back), I was going to suggest that you and I debate (for fun) the value of democracy (independent of whether we think it actually exists to whatever extent in the world today). Now we've managed to get the Deutschsprachiger Bereich subforum discussing the EU ramifications of such --- and in English to boot!! :-o
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-12 13:51
You say you want a revolution?
Parent - - By BB (****) [au] Date 2008-05-12 11:47

>a person of your station

Other than the Prince of Wales, it is hard to find anyone who would publically voice the idea of "station" today (though I tend to agree).
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-12 13:50
I had not read the Prince's candid remarks previously.  How wonderful it is when the feudalist impulse reasserts itself with vigor in these dessicated egalitarian times!  Imagine if the Prince were unapologetically monarchic in the same sense as the Tudors.
Parent - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-05-09 12:33
Wirklich SOOO dumm seid Ihr alle gewesen: Eduard, Erdo und alle anderen. Vielen Dank dass Ihr das Freestyle kaputt gemacht habt! Ihre Egos sind ja wirklich das wichtigste, nicht wahr!? Alle Freestyler die viel Zeit in diesen Turnieren investiert haben, schoene Partien abgeliefert haben und alles moegliche getan haben dieses Turnier zum Erfolg zu machen, werdet Ihr ganz herzlich 'Danke schoen' sagen. Mein Gott, wie immer nicht-Teilnehmer mit ihren Gross Maul alles fertig und kaputt machen..... Toll gemacht, Eduard! Mach weiter so.... :-)
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2008-05-09 13:08
Eduard, wenn man keine Ahnung hat...
Du hast als Außenstehender eben nicht die internen Vorgänge vorheriger Freestyleturniere mitbekommen, sonst würdest Du ganz anders denken. Natürlich bist Du gerade überzeugt, daß Du Recht hast, aber in vorherigen Turnieren wurde richtig getauscht, da spielten auch jede Runde andere Spieler unter den jeweiligen Accounts etc., nur hast Du davon wahrscheinlich nichts mitbekommen. Jetzt verhält sich das Rybusiateam völlig regelkonform und Du fängst an Dich wichtig zu fühlen und Dich zu beschweren...
Parent - - By Eduard (***) [de] Date 2008-05-09 15:40 Edited 2008-05-09 16:09
Dass Jeroen mich einen EGO und Bastard nennt, zeigt nur seinen jetzigen Charakter. Bedauerlich dass jemand wie er, nun solchen Stil angenommen hat. Ich habe 3 + 3 = 6 volle Tage lang kostenlos, freiwillig und neutral vom Turnier berichtet. Dabei habe ich sogar meinen Namen ganz in den Hintergrund gestellt, und hätte keiner gefragt wer der "CSS-Freestyle-Report" ist, dann hätte es nie jemand später erfahren. Das habe ich so mit der CSS Leitung abgesprochen gehabt. Ich sagte nur, dass ich mich nur in dem Fall "outen" würde, wenn jemand nachfragt. Das taten leider 2 oder 3, und dann musste ich dazu etwas schreiben.

Meine Berichte waren auch ganz neutral. Nach dem Hauptturnuier zB. hat Arno Nickel im CSS angefragt welche Partie wir für die schönste halten. Meine persönliche Meinung war die Partie von Rybusia, wo das Königsgambit auf das Brett kam! Allein daran kann man schon sehen dass ich nichts Persönliches gegen Rybusia habe, denn sonst hätte ich diese Partie nicht vorgeschlagen, nicht wahr?

Auf meiner neuen Chess Homepage habe ich übrigens in meinem ersten Bericht über das Finale, auch noch eine Partie von Rybusia mit einem eigenen Kommentar, speziell hervorgehoben, ebenfalls habe ich die Preise auch so angegeben wie es der Platzierung entsprach. Guck doch nach bitte!

Mit der Disqualifikation von Rybusia hatte ich rein garnichts zu sagen (Ich gehöre weder zur CSS Redaktion noch zum Promoter PAL)!

Ich bin meinerseits zunächst davon ausgegangen dass man das Finale so stehen lässt, wie es endete, dass man jedoch für das nächste Mal NOCH genauere Regeln definieren würde, wo zumindest auf dem Papier, die Abwesenheit eines registrierten Spielers bestraft würde, was ich auch als nur korrekt empfinde!

Das dies jetzt schon so passiert ist, bedauere ich, aber wenn PAL+CSS das so sehen, dann sollte man das akzeptieren. Schließlich geht es nicht nur um $1.000, sondern auch um die Chance dass das PAL-Turnier auch weiter existent bleibt. Nach der Reklamation des Rybusia-Teams jedoch (ganz egal ob sie nun die $1.000 nun doch noch bekommen oder nicht) wird es wohl kein PAL-Freestyle mehr geben!

Darum geht es. Ich bin der Auffassung dass man die Entscheidung des Scheidsgerichts akzeptieren sollte. Ansonsten zerstört man die Möglichkeit einer Neuauflage. Offenbar aber war das dem Team Rybusia entweder nicht bewußt (?) oder egal und gleichgültig?!

Was in früheren Turnieren passierte, tut nichts zu Sache des 8. Turniers! Das Team Rybusia sollte sich nicht daran richten was mal "früher" abging, sondern nur nach den neuen Regeln, die ab dem 8. Turnier galten. Das hat das Team Rybusia aber nicht gemacht, und stattdessen beschwert es sich auch noch zu unrecht! Damit ist das PAL-Freestyle in der bisherigen Form vermutlich beendet!


Nachtrag: Damit keiner auf "krumme" Gedanken kommt. Ich schreibe hier als einer der gerne bei dem nächsten Turnier mitmachen würde. Ich poste hier demnach in Form meiner eigenen persönlichen Ansichten, und NICHT als der "Reporter". Diese zwei Dinge trenne ich ganz entschieden voneinander! Auch alles was auf meiner Homepage steht, ist von mir als Privatperson geschrieben worden.
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-05-09 17:02
Lieber Eduard,

Deine Berichte im CSS Forum waren einfach klasse, dafuer habe ich Dich auch - zweimal sogar - gelobt. Es haette sonst niemandem gegeben der sowas machen wuerde, daher war das wirklich top von Dir. Klasse.

Aber, folgende Aussage:

Daher kann ich nur sagen: Veilen Dank Team Rybusia, Du hast das PAL Freestyle nun begraben.

hat mich SEHR irritiert und ich finde sie eine absolute Frechheit.

Wenn das Freestyle begraben wird, kommt das

A) weil die Regeln nicht klar sind
B) da es ueberhaupt (unklare) Regel gibt, dies ist FREEstyle und daher sollte es keine Regel geben
C) man kann im Internet sowieso nichts kontrollieren und Regel sind deswegen sinlos; jeder Regel wird zur Diskussionen fuehren
D) da Leuten sich einmischen die weder Teilnehmer noch Organisation sind
E) da diese Leuten einen negativen Einfluss auf dem Turnier haben die von Sponsoren nicht gewollt ist
F) da jetzt starke Spieler sagen 'so was will ich mir ersparen, danke, fuer mich kein Freestyle' (siehe auch den Internet Connection Verluste von GM Jobava und Team Komodo)

Ich habe jedenfalls keine Lust mehr in einem Internet Turnier mitzuspielen wo einige Leute, die nichts mit dem Turnier zu tun haben, eine negative Atmosphere kreieren und respectvolle Spieler wie Iweta und Vasik Rajlich, GM Krasenkow, GM Jobava, GM Dzindzichashvili so behandeln.

Beim GM Corus Turnier gab es einen Fall zwischen GM Short und GM Cheparinov. Was waere geschehen wenn ich mich als Zuschauer da eingemischt haette? Genau: ich wuerde von der Organisation sofort aus dem Turniersaal entfernt.

Was ist nun schlimmer: Doping im Sport? Partien mit Absicht verlieren? Referees Geld anbieten? Mit Absicht schlecht spielen, weil eine Wett Firma gerne verdienen moechte? Kunden benachteiligen? Oder doch das 'nicht anwesend sein' eines Teamchefs?

Parent - - By Eduard (***) [de] Date 2008-05-09 19:30
Lieber Jeroen!

Zunächst möchte ich dir sagen dass ich beim 7. Freestyle Turnier in einem Team mitgespielt habe. Ich bin demnach nicht immer nur Zuschauer gewesen. Ich war sogar für die Theorie zuständig! Wir hatten in den ersten 5 Runden 3x Schwarz, und mir gelangen dabei aus der Theorie heraus 50%. Dem übrigen Team war das leider zuwenig bei Runde 5. Sie spielten dann anders weiter...

Beim 8. Freestyle konnte ich leider nicht mitspielen, weil in der Regel steht dass jeder Spieler IMMER erreichbar sein muss. Ich musste jedoch eine sehr kranke Person pflegen, immer um 19 Uhr und um 23 Uhr, jeden Tag. Darum habe ich nicht mitgespielt.

Wie Du in meiner vorherigen Message sehen kannst, habe ich auf meiner Homepage zunächst auch die normalen Preise angegeben, ebenfalls habe ich sogar eine Partie von Rybusia kurz kommentiert. Auch habe ich im CSS Forum den Vorschlag gemacht dass Rybusia die beste Partie des Turniers gespielt hat (die Partie mit dem Königsgambit). Als potenziellen Spieler (ich wäre gerne das nächste Mal wieder dabei) habe ich nur meine Meinung zum Fall Rybusia gesagt, auch im Chat auf Allerdings ging es mir dabei nicht nur um das 8. Freestyle, sondern auch schon für ein evtl. 9. Turnier, wo ich dann die gleichen Rechte/Pflichten für alle gleich sehen wollte.

Ganz ehrlich: Ich habe nach dem Finale, und nachdem schon einige Tage vergangen waren, nicht mehr damit gerechnet dass es noch irgendwelche Konsequenzen geben wird, sondern nur dass die Regel für ein 9. Freestyle verschärft würde. Ich persönlich glaube dass Rybusia gegen §5 der Regel verstoßen hat (das ist meine Meinung immer noch), aber ich hätte auch gut damit leben können, wenn es zu keiner Bestrafung gekommen wäre, sondern die Regel für das nächste Turnier nur schärfer definiert worden wäre.

Mein Unmut gegenüber Rybusia richtet sich nicht darauf, ob Rybusia die 1.000 Dollar bekommt oder nicht, sondern darauf, dass Rybusia nicht gewillt ist die Entscheidung der Schiedsrichter von CSS + PAL zu akzeptieren. Weil, ich kann mir jetzt gut vorstellen dass der Sponsor (PAL Group) nun keine Lust mehr hat solche Art Spielchen noch zu sponsern! Ich gehe davon aus dass der Scheich nun die Geldquelle leider dicht macht.

Ich meine, man sollte die Entscheidung der Schiedsrichter immer akzeptieren. Der Grund ist einfach: Tut man das nicht (ob zu recht oder unrecht, ist egal) dann gehen die Sponsoren weg. OK, vielleicht wird Rybusia ja Erfolg haben und die 1000 Dollar doch noch bekommen (?), aber das wäre dann wirklich das Ende eines PAL/CSS Freestyle Turniers, zumindest auf

Da aber die "Pal Goup" auf einen "Hydra Chess" Raum besitzt (schon einige Jahre lang), und auch weil der Zor_Champ das Freestyle auf schon einmal gewonnen hatte, glaube ich nicht daran dass er den Server wechseln wird. Es wäre daher sehr klug, wenn sich CSS + PAL + Rybusia noch irgendwie so einigen könnten, damit es mit dem Freestyle weitergehen könnte! Ich jedenfalls wäre sehr happy!

Warten wir ab.

Liebe Grüße,
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-05-10 09:56
Hallo Eduard,

Zuerst moechte ich mich bei dir wegen meine Aussagen (bastard, egotripper) entschuldigen. Das war nicht nett von mir, es tut mir wirklich leid wenn ich dich damit weh getan habe.

Ich glaube wir werden es in diesem Fall einfach nicht einig. Kein Problem, es sei so! 'Immer erreichbar sein' kann man ueberall auf der Welt, es hat schon viel schlimmere Sachen beim Freestyle gegeben als ein Verstoss (?) gegen diesen unklare Regel. Daher mein Punkt: es waere viel besser ein Freestyle ohne Regeln auszutragen, denn im Internet ist sowieso kaum etwas zu kontrollieren! Ist auch kein Problem, es heisst darum auch FREEstyle. Das war mein Punkt.

Also fuer ein erfolgreiches naechstes Freestyle Turnier wuensche ich mir:

1. Keine Regel
2. Gute Software die auch im Falle eines Internet Abbruchs auskunft bietet (z.B. das einfach die Uhr laeuft)
3. Viele gute Schachspieler, darunter IM und GM, die teilnehmen
4. Chat abschalten
5. Viel Werbung, damit moeglichst viele Leute mitspielen oder einfach kibitzen

So stelle ich mir das vor!

Schoenen Gruss nach Deutschland,

Parent - By Kreuzfahrtschiff (***) [de] Date 2008-05-10 12:10
dem stimme ich zu, warum nicht gleich so?
Parent - - By Kreuzfahrtschiff (***) [de] Date 2008-05-09 21:59 Edited 2008-05-09 22:03
ich bin wahrlich kein freund von eduard, das weiss hier wohl jeder, aber hier bin ich auf seiner seite

und ich habe schon oft beim freestyle mitgemacht, falls das überhaupt ein grund sein kann seine meinung zu sagen!?

dieses geschleime der rybka teammitglieder geht mir auf den sac...

nur weil ihr glaubt mehr macht zu haben protestiert ihr, während mein protest gegen eine kampflose NULL einfach ignoriert wurde - UND ICH HABE KEINE REGEL GEBROCHEN!!!!
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