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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Moro Gamgee @ 8th Freestyle
- - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-04-28 07:57
Hi all,

The 8th Freestyle is finished, time to tell the story behind Moro Gamgee. Here is the lineup for this team:

Nickname: Moro Gamgee
Player: Jeroen Noomen
Hardware: Intel Skulltrail 8 x 4 GHz from Lukas Cimiotti, Intel Q6600 Quad
Software: New Rybka version by Vas and Larry on the Skulltrail, I used mainly other programs at the Quad

First of all it is necessary to explain the name 'Moro Gamgee'. Actually I was looking for something special, triggered by the nickname 'Etaoin Shrdlu' which is absolutely my favourite. So I hit on a site where you can have your own name being translated into a hobbit name. Hobbits are characters from the Lord of the Ring movies. So 'Moro Gamgee' is nothing else than the hobbit name for Hans van der Zijden, Rybka operator in many tournaments. First I wanted to use the Elves name, but sadly 'Arafinwe Telrunya' was too long and not accepted by the Playchess server :-).

The prelims started exactly at the point where my 6 months sabbatical commenced. What a great way to have your sabbatical started! I counted on nothing, just wanted to play fun games and enjoy myself. But all went very well, after 3 rounds I had 3 points and already I knew that the chances for the final were very real. On day 2 I scored another victory making it +4 and on sunday I abondoned my 'play for fun' philosophy, I just wanted to make 3 draws. Unfortunately team Komodo thought otherwise and already after the opening I got into trouble. Instead of being squeezed at the Q-side I opted for a pawn sac, to change the situation radically. I am sure the pawn sac was not correct, but I finally got the desired counterplay and drew the game. A close call. The 2 other games were quickly drawn and I found myself on shared 1st place with friend Nick Carlin.

On monday April 14th it was my birthday and now I had 2 reasons to celebrate! On Buchholz I was in first place in the prelims, something I had never thought of. And here comes the culprit: for me this was such a success, that deeply inside I didn't want to play the finals at all. This might sounds weird, but it is just the way it is. In the next two weeks I was never busy with the final, I just didn't care and enjoyed my wins in the prelims. All I did was enjoying my free time, spent time in sauna complexes, with friends and working on the Rybka 3 book.

The finals came and I must say I was just not in the mood for them. Day 1 in a nutshell: my play was shaky, my openings were lousy, my mood was somewhere else and I just couldn't find the drive to put pressure and use my usual 'killer mood'. On day 2 the accident with team Komodo happened and this didn't do me good. Again it might sound strange, but this free point didn't help me at all, it was just the opposite! On saturday I finally analysed some Botwinnik stuff for the Ultima game and I found this crazy (and ahem, brilliant!) Bf1!!? move. Within a few moves white gives up his huge b7 passer, wins back the black c4 pawn to give black a fine b4 passer. This must be the idea of a lunatic! IMO my fault was to play this rather quickly and Eros started to spent a lot of time, smelling a rat. And my god, he found the saving move b3! Well played. Engines like Qf3 and I was praying for that, because it loses! Like other tries. However after b3! black closes his defence and although I kept trying, he avoided all tricks and in the end we had a dynamically balanced position.

So finally a decent game and a decent opening prep. But my good mood was just short noticed, as I played another shaky line against Flyingfatman, mixing up lines and already after 10 moves I was disgusted by my position. I pulled myself together and found a way to pick off all the pieces and a slightly worse position. So after two days I had 4 whites and - except for the Ultima game - nothing to offer. After this game I just wanted it to be over soon.

On sunday I finally got my mood right and made an excellent decision: the Petroff. A friend showed me a HUGE novelty in one of the Petroff lines, so I was keen on trying it. Alas, Enchanter played a line that is completely drawn and also Luminarydebris sidestepped the line with the novelty, going for the main lines which are obviously not much for white. Kramnik says they are drawn and I think he is right. The Luminary game went straight to a draw, when he suddenly uncorked Nc7?! A mouse slip (clicking on c7 instead of c6?) or a last try? I was amazed! Black suddenly seemed to get a few chances, but in the end it was drawn anyway. So in these black games for the first time in all my Freestyle games I didn't experience any problems.

In the 8th round I completely outplayed Regina H-Milch in a Queen's gambit. As soon as you are deviating from the Playchess main lines, things are starting to go well :-). My simple tip is: either refute Playchess theory, or sidestep it with some dangerous sideline. Already after 15 moves blacks position went downhill, but for some reason I could't decide on the best line. Finally I chose a rook ending that looked completely winning, but it was tricky and in the end I faltered and threw the win away.

All in all I drew all my games and it showed me again how hard such a final is. Playing alone with just 2192 elo makes it very tough to win just a single game. I only got brief help in the prelims when a GM and an IM visited me (but just for 1 hour). I hoped to have them in my team for the finals, but this didn't work unfortunately. Maybe next time :-)

Many thanks to all my opponents, PAL, CSS, the TD's, the spectators and the Rybka fans for another exciting Freestyle tournament. I have a first place in the prelims added to my credits, there are not many people that can say that :-). It kind of spoiled my mental drive for the finals, I clearly felt that. Too bad, but it is just the way it is.

Jeroen Noomen
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-04-28 08:19
Oops, I almost forgot the most important:

A HUGE thank you to Lukas for his kind permission to use his great Skulltrail machine! It really helped be during some tough moments and in bad positions.
Also many thanks to Vas and Larry to use the new Rybka version.

BTW, if you want to find out your hobbit name, here is the site you can check:

http://chriswetherell.com/hobbit/

Kind regards, Jeroen
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-28 11:53
Congratulations on a great tournament!  It's quite amazing that some of you are still able to obtain such great results by playing alone.

By the way, I still think it is strange and funny that Samwise Gamgee translates to Podo Danderfluff of Willowbottom. :-)
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-04-28 12:45
Thanks Turbo, very much appreciated :-).

Concerning the translation: it is a real name -> hobbit name translation, not vice versa!

BTW, the hobbit name for 'Harvey Williamson' is also not bad :-).
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-28 13:44
But it should also work as a hobbit name -> hobbit name translation, as it does with Frodo Baggins and Bilbo Baggins, which is why I'm curious why it doesn't work with Samwise Gamgee -> Samwise Gamgee.
Parent - By Nick (*****) [gb] Date 2008-04-28 13:33

> Engines like Qf3 and I was praying for that ..


Maybe ..

26... Qf3 27. c5 Bc7 28. c6 Qh5 29. h3 Bd6 30. Nb2 Bc7 31.Bxd4 exd4 32. Nd3 a5 33. Re7 Rg8 34. Rae1 Kc8 35. Re8+!

?

A nice report Jeroen!  I very much enjoyed the qualifiers also :)  Enjoy your sabbatical my friend!

Sancho Knotwise
Parent - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [hu] Date 2008-04-28 15:11
Cool report Jeroen!

Fosco Proudneck of Longbottom
Parent - - By Debaser (***) Date 2008-04-28 17:26
Hobbits are characters from the Lord of the Ring movies?!

Lets hope that no Tolkien fanatic is around ;)

Amroth Faelivrin
Parent - By Watchman (***) Date 2008-04-28 18:13
Sorry here is one :-O and :-P
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-04-28 20:39
OK, OK, sorry for that! Ha ha ha, when I wrote the report I said to myself: 'when people are going to react, the will surely ask me for this huge Petroff novelty'. But no, it is about Lord of the Rings, I didn't expect that :-)

Today I analysed this new idea in the Petroff a bit and it is absolutely amazing. Neither Kramnik nor all the other top GM's have thought about this idea. Wait for the new Rybka book and you'll surely find out. I am already very curious who will spot it first, as it is a bit hidden.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2008-04-28 22:15

> 'when people are going to react, the will surely ask me for this huge Petroff novelty'


I assumed that you would not say anything :)
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) [de] Date 2008-04-29 03:21
Who is really interested in opening lines? People with megalomania! Okay, opening lines are an essential evil in chess. Over hundred years humans tried to find terra firma here. It´s hopeless. In the last years, engines help the humans to avoid bad mistakes in opening theory. Ignoring that, we are no step ahead. Why? Because engines have no clue about evaluation of resulting endgames. Here humans are much better but they don´t see the resulting endgame in the opening, when they follow the eval of the engine. When you have a new line in the Petroff, I´m sure it´s crushing in the (late) middlegame and because it´s an idea, no engine will follow this move (or moves). Okay, we will have an other corpse in opening theory. And now? How to bury the other 10^7 (?) lines?
I will be concrete and therefore I will take this two examples: Komodo1 first game and Rybusia last game. I´m sure, that Komodo1 was sure, that he was in great danger before move 20. But maybe he hoped in the eval of Rybka (0.0). But she has no clue. The game was lost before move 20 and the line is dead! Rybusia played a line, which no engine would play! It was great but at some point, you have to follow the eval of the engine (because you have no better idea). It was a draw in the endgame.
Five years ago, when we all have 32 core machines, you have rewritten your opening book completely. But endgame theory will still be right. Here we have terra firma. It would be great, if we can step a liitle bit forward here. I see great chances :-).
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-04-29 05:47
I haven't done detailed analysis, but I would be very surprised if Rybusia didn't have a won game against Spaghetti at some point early on.

Alan
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) [de] Date 2008-04-29 06:16
Please don´t blame Vas, Michal (or Iweta :-))! But it´s interesting. Suj was "the master of the univers" in the chat and told all, that Rybusia throw the win away (I´m not sure, but he claimed, that Rybusia has to beat with the knight). He also told us, that Snuggles can hold against Ultima, when he played Rd7 instead of Rc4?. It was strange,  because I believe him! And: He was pro the Italian fraction and they played better than ever! A new myth is born?
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-04-29 07:08
Who is really interested in opening lines?

A) I am :-)
B) All the top GM's will be very interested in this line, while it almost buries one of the favourite Petroff tries of the last few years.

opening lines are an essential evil in chess

Evil? They are essential! The player with the best preparation always has the advantage over a player without preparation, hence it improves your chances in the game.
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) [de] Date 2008-04-29 08:17
I´m aware of your good points. But I´m in the mood of negation and provocation. Why not the profesional chess players in assistance with their engines make the new lines? They do nothing more than playing chess! And they can´t find it, although they are so interested in it? Here must be something wrong! Two possibilities. The GMs are wrong or you. I have seen the Kavalek analysis of the Flying Fatman game (B90). The GMs never would play such a line, because they are not convinced. It´s out of their horizont, because the position is too tactical. Okay, they can learn by heart, but any variation and they have a problem OTB. A new good line in opening theory is a line, which humans (top GMs) can understand! When Anand can´t understand, why Mission control abandon the game, the line is bullshit for OTB chess.
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-04-29 09:37
The first (top) GM who finds out what great novelties and ideas are discovered and played in tournaments like Freestyle, or by computer programs, will have a huge advantage over his other GM colleagues. It is just a matter of time. Creating opening theory is part of the game and IMO very important. I think that if a top GM would browse to some of the top Playchess openingbooks, his interest will be more than triggered. Combined with his own analysis, his own ideas and his own team work this is a formidabel weapon in modern chess.

You may not like opening theory, but for me it is an art. There is still so much to discover and finding great new moves is just giving a huge thrill. Disregarding opening theory today is like starting each football match being 1-0 down. It is just the way it is.
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-29 11:35
It seems downright silly for Jeroen to even be making these arguments.  They are self-evident, and he is regarded as the premier opening book developer in the computer chess world.  This is like arguing with Socrates and saying "bah, philosophy--it is a necessary evil!"
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-29 13:25
Bah, Rybka--it is a necessary evil!
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-04-29 17:03
A: Socrates is a man.
B: All men are mortal.
C: All men are Socrates.
Parent - By gala.martin (**) Date 2008-04-29 22:05
The first (top) GM who finds out what great novelties and ideas are discovered and played in tournaments like Freestyle, or by computer programs, will have a huge advantage over his other GM colleagues. It is just a matter of time. Creating opening theory is part of the game and IMO very important. I think that if a top GM would browse to some of the top Playchess openingbooks, his interest will be more than triggered. Combined with his own analysis, his own ideas and his own team work this is a formidabel weapon in modern chess.

I am almost sure that Kramnik has already downloaded the games.
Parent - - By Sesse (****) [no] Date 2008-05-06 19:41
Well, "disregarding" is so relative... When I play, I am generally very happy if I know enough theory for the first 7-8 moves. For you, being out of book regularly by move 8 would probably be a disaster :-)

/* Steinar */
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2008-05-06 19:58

> Well, "disregarding" is so relative... When I play, I am generally very happy if I know enough theory for the first 7-8 moves. For you, being out of book regularly by move 8 would probably be a disaster :-)


Or not. It might mean that the opponent blundered :)
Parent - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-05-07 06:50
For you, being out of book regularly by move 8 would probably be a disaster

Not really, because than my position will be more than OK :-)
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2008-04-29 11:39

> The player with the best preparation always has the advantage over a player without preparation


Yes. I am a patzer, but I can say that at least 150 of my rating points are thanks to my opening preparation. I've seen weaker players beating me when they successfully sidestep it and get a better position, and I can beat very easily stronger players when they fall in my pet line in where I can play purely from memory and they get out of it in a much worse position. I've even been accused of cheating for this.

Also, sometimes analyzing opening positions searching for a novelty can be more fun than playing the game itself :) 
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-04-29 11:55
Also, sometimes analyzing opening positions searching for a novelty can be more fun than playing the game itself

Absolutely! This is exactly my philosophy.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2008-04-29 16:37
but the most fun is to play a novelty you found and to crush your opponent with your preparation :)
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-29 17:25
Amen to that!  Brilliancies for the chess literature are best, but slowly crushing them like a boa constrictor is just as fun!
Parent - - By gala.martin (**) Date 2008-04-29 18:04
No. The best is crushing the opponent with preparation, then blundering the middle game, and finally getting the point with a great endgame.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2008-04-29 18:41
blunders don't make fun. It's much better to overplay your opponent completely :)

I already posted a game where I played 15 moves theory and then had already a comfortable position with much more time than my opponent, this is really fun - but it's not very "romantic" chess :)

[White "Kling F."]
[Black "Kropp V."]
[WhiteElo "1849"]
[BlackElo "1972"]
[Result "1-0"]

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 c5 3.d5 Qb6 4.Nc3 Qxb2 5.Bd2 Qb6 6.e4 d6 7.f4
e6 8.Rb1 Qd8 9.Bb5+ Bd7 10.dxe6 fxe6 11.Bc4 Nc6 12.Rxb7 Na5 13.Rxd7
Qxd7 14.Bb5 Nc6 15.e5 Nd5 16.Nxd5 exd5 17.exd6 Qxd6 18.Nf3 a6
19.Ba4 O-O-O 20.O-O Be7 21.Qe2 Nd4 22.Nxd4 cxd4 23.Rb1 h5 24.Bb4
d3 25.Bxd6 dxe2 26.Rb8# 1-0

Btw., remembering lines is also fun, in that game I remembered every single move from a game, I knew exactly the moment when the theory ended and also knew what was played instead :) I analysed that game about 4 months before that game and didn't prepare it the day before or sth. like this.
Parent - - By Nick (*****) [gb] Date 2008-04-29 18:47
Ok Felix I would try 12 ... Rb8 just to give you something to think about :)

[Event "Calvia ol (Men)"]
[Site "Mallorca"]
[Date "2004.10.24"]
[Round "9"]
[White "Khouseinov, Rashid"]
[Black "Patriarca, Luis"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A45"]
[WhiteElo "2343"]
[BlackElo "2259"]
[PlyCount "68"]
[EventDate "2004.10.15"]
[EventType "team"]
[EventRounds "14"]
[EventCountry "ESP"]
[WhiteTeam "TJK"]
[BlackTeam "PAR"]
[WhiteTeamCountry "TJK"]
[BlackTeamCountry "PAR"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 c5 3. d5 Qb6 4. Nc3 Qxb2 5. Bd2 Qb6 6. e4 d6 7. Rb1 Qd8 8. f4
e6 9. Bb5+ Bd7 10. dxe6 fxe6 11. Bc4 Nc6 12. Rxb7 Rb8 13. Rxb8 Qxb8 14. Nf3 Na5
15. Be2 Nc6 16. O-O Be7 17. Bc4 Na5 18. Bd3 c4 19. Be2 Qb6+ 20. Kh1 O-O 21. e5
Ne8 22. exd6 Nxd6 23. Ne5 Bc8 24. Qc1 Qc7 25. a4 a6 26. Nd1 Bb7 27. Bg4 Nf5 28.
Qb2 Rb8 29. Qc3 Bb4 30. Qh3 Bxd2 31. Bxf5 exf5 32. Qxf5 Qe7 33. Qg4 Rf8 34. Nb2
Qxe5 0-1
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2008-04-29 19:49
Of course I know this game, too :)

I think Qd8 is the bad move.
Parent - - By exigentsky (***) [us] Date 2008-04-29 21:23
Sorry, but where can I find all the games for the Freestyle finals?
Parent - - By BB (****) [au] Date 2008-04-30 00:02 Edited 2008-04-30 00:05

>Sorry, but where can I find all the games for the Freestyle finals?


I got them piecemeal from the CSS Forum. I attach a PGN with all 39 games.
Attachment: FREE_8th.pgn (48k)
Parent - By exigentsky (***) [us] Date 2008-04-30 05:01 Edited 2008-04-30 05:03
Ah, thanks!
Parent - - By Fulcrum2000 (****) [nl] Date 2008-05-06 19:06 Edited 2008-05-06 19:47
You, or actually Hans, won some nice money in the process :-)
Rybusia is not disqualified, but will get no price money because of Freestyle rule violations:

http://www.computerschach.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=650&Itemid=1
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) [de] Date 2008-05-06 23:07
Psssst!! Hans can´t get the price money, because he wasn´t accessible all the time. Look to the Rybusia case.
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2008-05-08 11:52
Well, as a matter of fact Hans *was* accessible all the time :-)
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-05-08 12:52
Where was he?  Was this known beforehand? :-)
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Moro Gamgee @ 8th Freestyle

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