Not logged inRybka Chess Community Forum
Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / 1 more player needed for 3 players chess correspondence game
1 2 Previous Next  
- - By tomski1981 (*****) [ca] Date 2008-04-24 22:37
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2008-04-25 00:18
I've seen a game like that for 4 players. They say "the more players, the more fun", I wonder if that's true for chess.
Parent - - By akirasan (**) [my] Date 2008-04-25 02:20
Interesting .. what is the rules?
Parent - By tomski1981 (*****) [ca] Date 2008-04-25 02:38
that's precisely what i was trying to determine... but i suppose there really isn't much difference except that one more person is added to the turn order
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) [de] Date 2008-04-25 03:26
Where is the opponent? I only see white pieces.
Parent - - By tomski1981 (*****) [ca] Date 2008-04-25 03:29
the coloring might be off.. i'm assuming those are supposed to be three different colors..

the more i look at that, the more i would like to try it
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2008-04-25 03:32
We can try to have a correspondence game, right here, right now, if you wish. We just need to know the squares coordinates.
Parent - - By tomski1981 (*****) [ca] Date 2008-04-25 03:44
well, i would have to set up a board first :) maybe tomorrow.

in the mean time, we should determine how the coordinates work (we have some clues).

from left to right (counter clockwise starting at west tip): H G F E - I J K L - 12 11 10 9 - 5 6 7 8 - L K J I - D C B A

it's hard to tell, but i think i can see:
8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1.............1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

i'm assuming the "........." (the top of the board) = A B C D E F G

we also would need one more player... and we need to determine: who's white, who's black, and who's grey. :)
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2008-04-25 08:38 Edited 2008-04-25 08:47
After some research, the game seems to be called Yalta, and I found rules that contradicted other rules, so I propose the following:

1. The 3 sides use the same coordinates used on the half of a chess board, and all of them act like white, like this:



In this example Blue, Red, and Green. So if I'm green I can play e4(green) or e4G, and when going to another part of the board I just call it. E.G. my knight jumps from g4B to c3G I could just say Nc3G, and it's perfectly clear (It's easier than it sounds.)

We still need to arrange who plays what color, and in what order.

2. Knight moves look weird when played but they're really simple: One lateral move and one diagonal move; this causes the knight to end on a square of the opposite color of the one it came from and that doesn't touch it.

3. Bishop on the same color rule means that it has 2 possible paths when it reaches the center, since the center connects 3 squares from the same color (so a bishop on a1B can move to d4R or d4G.)

4. The queen goes always on the d file.

5. The player that first checkmates any of the other 2 opponents first wins. This means that you should not only defend your own king from checkmate, but that you also should defend a king being checkmated to ensure that you checkmate him, because if you do nothing both will lose the game.

6. Checking a king that is already checked by the other player may lose you the game if the king can't escape checkmate, because the first player doing the check gets the credit.

7. All disagreements at the table (about the rules) are solved by casting votes among the three participants.

Regarding stalemate, since we'll be three players I propose that the stalemated player is allowed to pass so the other two players continue the game for that turn.

And of course we still need a third player, maybe Roland Rösler is interested?
Parent - - By rrachkov [bg] Date 2010-11-18 14:48
You can play the game online absolutely free on Three handed chess. Have fun! There are also the rules of ThreeChess.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-11-19 01:23
Thanks for the info!

I'd still have liked to play it on the forum :lol:
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-11-19 12:26
How do you make sure that two players don't gang up on the third one?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-11-20 00:48
Because the first player that checkmates an opponent wins, so if you want to win, when you see an opponent is attacking the other, you have to help the losing player. Alliances then are temporal and dynamic.
Parent - - By tomski1981 (*****) [ca] Date 2010-11-20 04:36
i can see the other player attacking the weaker one, trying to mate before the other person.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-11-20 06:00
The player that attacks first wins, or he wouldn't attack if he sees it's probable that the second player would win first. So either the better strategy is to defend the losing player, or the cases where both players make a parmanent alliance against the third player are rare (those where the first player basically commits suicide by attacking because he doesn't see the second player can mate before him).

But I think the players can have a fun time without worrying of such issues, it's more sporting to play the other two players than to make permanent alliances.

I guess this is still open and only an extra player needed? :yell:
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-11-20 07:40
Since there is no need for engines so to speak I would play. Is there any advantage to having a 2100 elo :lol:? Probably shouldn't say that because that means both would come after me :yell::lol:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-11-20 09:23
Oh, so you're a strong OTB player, that explains many things :wink:

I have no idea about my strength, I think that at slow time controls I should be about 1500-1700 OTB (probably on the low side) but I mostly play blitz.

Let's wait for tomski's confirmation before starting the game, and yeah, we can play at threechess, I suggest we paste a screenshot on the thread (probably a new thread) after each move.
Parent - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-11-20 09:35
Well, I try. I have to admit in CC play it is hard to overrule the engine :grin: but when I can find just a little blood. Watch out :twisted:. I had thought are game was a dead draw. But it not over yet, I've been in the lab and have found some new ideas even in this late middle game position.
Parent - - By tomski1981 (*****) [ca] Date 2010-11-20 23:34
i'm in... but how do we paste screenshots?
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-11-20 23:55
I think Vytron can help us with that. I can start whenever you two are really.
Parent - By tomski1981 (*****) [ca] Date 2010-11-21 01:09
well, i need to familiarize myself with the rules again :)
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2010-11-21 01:13
2100 ELO otb is very strong OTB i was rated in 1970 as 160 BCF i think it was equiv to 2000 ELO.gone downhill since those days.:wink:
Parent - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-11-21 01:28
I'm proud to say I wasn't a product of the computer age either :smile:. I had a great teacher. I only used the computer for looking over games and doing some work on my openings. Now a days I use it more, but not much more than seeing if I can find holes in my opperent's styles.
Parent - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-11-20 07:42
If we have to play off the site we can always do a on game report :lol:
Parent - By tomski1981 (*****) [ca] Date 2010-11-20 23:35
thanks.. :) i all but forgot about this thread..

you must have been really bored to go find this one .. hehehe :wink:
Parent - - By tomski1981 (*****) [ca] Date 2010-11-21 01:18
regarding point 4.

So the queen on e1B traveling up the e1B file (e1B, e2B, e3B, e4B) would continue to d4G, correct? (d4G, d3G, d2G.. and so on).

Also, what would be the proper way to set up queens? e1B, e1G, e1R? note that each queen would be facing a king (in regular chess, queens face each other)
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-11-21 18:42

> (e1B, e2B, e3B, e4B) would continue to d4G, correct?


Yes.

> e1B, e1G, e1R? note that each queen would be facing a king


Yeah, there's no way to go around that with three players.

Anyway, I'm willing to play with any rules threechess.com enforces, let's register!
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-11-21 18:56
I'm register now, I'm Thehug like on here. I'm still wondering about Tom last comment. Do you know how to take screen shots? I don't know how. I would have to look it up.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-11-21 18:59
I can take screenshots and post them every move, no problem.

Also, I've registered as Vytron, but the playing hall won't load, can you see their playing room from their "Fully functional BETA"?, otherwise we might as well go along with posting moves.
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-11-21 21:04
I got on. I think we may have to be on at the same time.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-11-21 21:25

> I think we may have to be on at the same time.


Oh, that is unacceptable. I say let's just start posting moves in a new thread.

The move order is yet to be decided, as always I'll choose "black" :smile:, I think I'll like better playing after knowing what you guys already played. If we go counter-clockwise I'd be red, so you and tomski can decide who gets blue (moves first) or green (moves second).

I'll post a board every time so you don't get lost, but I'll revamp it first...
Parent - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-11-21 21:29
I feel you there, in this case it may be a benefit to go last :lol:. I don't mind going in any position if that helps anything.
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-11-21 22:14
If you give me one broad I should be oh ok. It sounds like a lot of work.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-11-22 00:13

> It sounds like a lot of work.


Nah, I work with vectors, those can be moved around without any problems before exporting them to bitmaps.

The hard part is making it NOT look weird, considering the strange board/square topology, the pieces look all over the place :yell:
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-11-22 00:29
Can you scale it to make the smallest piece fit even with the larger squares? Wow, vectors that is the high end stuff. I never quite made it that far in mathematics. At first I thought you was a web designer. But now I think I know what your expertise is :lol:
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-11-22 02:16
I thought vectors was the easy stuff. :surprised:
Parent - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-11-22 02:49
If it is. There are a lot :lol: more people here a lot more book smart than me
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-11-22 07:23
Heh, the software does the math, I just tell it what to do :wink:

I don't want the pieces to look as if they were painted on the squares (which looked weird), or have them at different sizes (which looks weird, too) so I'll just keep them on the dame size, which will make them look at different size due to optical illusion, and will have some overlapping pieces. But, anyway, I'm probably worrying about something not important.

I'm going to create the game thread now :smile:
Parent - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-11-21 21:26
If we can't be on at the same time then. Maybe we can do it here, or just find another place.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2008-04-28 10:43
I'm moving this thread to the main Rybka subforum for 24 hours, hopefully someone will see the thread and join us.
Parent - - By noctiferus (***) [it] Date 2008-04-28 11:34 Edited 2008-04-28 11:47
As a first impression it's interesting to be played between friends, but am I wrong when I see a greater cheating possibility by tacit agreements? ( I had bad experiences with poker, in my youth!).
In a tournament, that would allow tacit agreements to push somebody back in ranking (always thinking what could happen on the dark side , sorry for it:)

Maybe it's moving chess one step further!: what about coalitions being legal? one should choose his move taking into account this possibility too. WOW!
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2008-04-28 12:04
I don't know how it would work, as two players wouldn't want to team up against the third player; in the end only the player doing the checkmate wins, and the other loses.

That means that the optimal strategy for the player not doing the checkmate is to help the player being checkmated to avoid losing. So alliances wouldn't work, in principle.
Parent - - By noctiferus (***) [it] Date 2008-04-28 12:21
Interesting, I'd like to know more: coalitions, in your description, seem to dynamically change...

Anyway, for what it's worth, my comment is still valid, IMHO: in a tournament, where you have two candidate winners (to oversimpify), the third player (back in the rank) could play in favour of his friend.
Parent - - By tomski1981 (*****) [ca] Date 2008-04-28 20:21
hmmm, i suppose you are right.. then the 3rd player must be unbiased... Rybka!! and the rules should change... 2 humans vs 1 rybka :) We got our advantage back!!!
Parent - By noctiferus (***) [it] Date 2008-04-28 20:33 Edited 2008-04-28 20:54
Yes, good idea: a rybka driven by a further decision module, that chooses move by  move which is the player to be supported. wow......A further dimension to the game complexity: Mr. Spock, where  are you?  :)
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2008-04-28 22:13

> Interesting, I'd like to know more: coalitions, in your description, seem to dynamically change...


Yes. Besides defending your king from getting mated, you have also to prevent the other two players to checkmate each other. This means you have to always team with the losing player, until you can mate it.

Your definition is valid in tournaments, but that's the same case in normal chess, when 2 friends play and one helps the other by giving away the game.

tomski1981 and me want to play this three players variant here on the forum, but we need a third player, are you interested? :)
Parent - - By noctiferus (***) [it] Date 2008-04-29 15:22
<we need a third player, are you interested?>
Sorry, Vytron, it's a bad period: I cannot dedicate time and attention to this game, due to a heavy workload.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2008-04-29 23:34
Ok, I guess the game will not take place. :(

Until later.
Parent - - By BB (****) [au] Date 2009-05-18 13:02
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-22 23:36
my old friend Tomski 1981 does not apear to be around any longer
Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / 1 more player needed for 3 players chess correspondence game
1 2 Previous Next  

Powered by mwForum 2.27.4 © 1999-2012 Markus Wichitill