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Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / The Ultimate Fish Challenge
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- - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2008-04-20 16:18 Edited 2008-04-20 16:39
Hello Fish Men,

As some of you know we have established a Hiarcs forum Chess team and have played several games so far which have been a lot of fun. The Hiarcs Forum Team now feel it is time to go Fishing.

We would like to challenge this Fishy Forum to a match. I spoke to Turbojuice about this as he has been a regular player on the Hiarcs forum. He likes the idea but is unable to commit to being Captain of your team. However I suggest that he helps set up your team if you are brave enough to accept this challenge against the mighty Hiarcs Forum.

The basic rules would be up to 48 hours to play each move. Official move to be posted, by your Captain, in the Tournament section of the Hiarcs forum. You are free to organise your team as you wish and use any hardware/software that you can find. I suggest we play 2 games 1 after another so we each get black and white.

I propose that we start the match in June after Hiarcs wins Leiden Smile

Throwing out the Fish bait Regards,
Harvey

ps you can give your official responce in this thread http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=13573#13573

pps If this post gets moved to a black hole I will take that as being a resignation by the Rybka forum ;-)
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-04-20 16:25
I like the concept, but not the basic rules which favor Harvey's team due to his superior skills in organization and CC. I think a better test would be along the lines of selecting 6 players from each forum, and having each play either 1 or 2 games against each player on the opposing team. Just a thought.

Regards,
Alan
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2008-04-20 16:26
I think you should wait for Turbo to post as he has some interesting ideas on how you can organise your team. One problem with the match you suggest is that players may not play alone and get help from others - you can ask turbo about that as well ;-)
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-04-20 16:34
Cheating is always a potential problem, but one would hope that it could be minimized in this type of event with only pride at stake.

In the type of match you propose, the CC and organizational skills of the leader are paramount and I would bet heavily on you vs. Turbo in this competition regardless of the makeup of the rest of the teams.

Regards,
Alan
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2008-04-20 16:37
I will certainly be a member of our team if the match is played but I will not be the captain. Dylan Sharp has done a great job so far as our team captain. You also are free to have Vas and Larry in your team.
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-04-20 16:57
If Larry has CC experience, he would make an excellent team captain and would probably be competitive. I suspect that Uri would be very competitive (even with his ancient hardware), but he posts on the Hiarcs forum as much as here. As indicated above, I believe the team captain is generally more important than the rest of the team in this type of event (which is why I consider it to be rather meaningless).

Regards,
Alan
Parent - - By Hetman (*****) Date 2008-04-23 06:42
Hi,
could it be seen as the Europe  N. America match ?  :-)
Rgds
Hetman
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2008-04-23 21:07
???
Parent - By Hetman (*****) Date 2008-04-24 12:51
:) :) :)  !
Parent - - By Steve B (*) [us] Date 2008-04-20 16:47
Good Chance the Fishka's wont accept the Challenge Harvey
in all likelihood..most of them would be using Fishka as the main engine while we in the Hiarcs forum will mostly be using Hiarcs
and we all know what the usual outcome is when just those two Engines face each other in a one or two game match
Hiarcs 1..Fishka ..0

nope ..  dont expect them to accept at all ..but i imagine there will be no scarcity of excuses

;-)

Hiarcs Rulez Regards
Steve
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [hu] Date 2008-04-20 19:52
You guys are real masochists, aren't you? :)

I'm definitely up for playing, although we need a leader/coordinator on the Rybka side. Any volunteers?

Vas
Parent - By Steve B (*) [us] Date 2008-04-20 20:35
Well Done Sir!
may the better house win

House Hiarcs vs. House Rybka Regards
Steve
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2008-04-20 20:49
you have got to persuade tubojuice to do it,i have worked with him,he is a natural for the job.
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-25 03:39
In any case, we need to get going on this--the Hiarcs Hillbillies are cranking out posts left and right, and we've been relatively silent...though I guess the next step is learning how to admit people so that I can admit people :-)
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-20 21:44
I could help coordinate things, but I wouldn't make a decent captain as I will be out of town during most of June and early July.  First, I will be out of the country, and then I will be back here but up in the northeast running in the national mountain running championships.  I have a good method for organizing our ideas once we get a secret thread up and running.  We would need a secret subforum to which only registered members of the team have access, so that would need to be added to the Forum.  We have very strong players on our side and also people with very strong hardware, so I am confident that once we get all of these things together, we will certainly not lose any games.  However, as the Hiarcs Team knows, winning games against them is also very difficult, and nobody has succeeded in doing this yet.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2008-04-20 21:47

> We would need a secret subforum to which only registered members of the team have access, so that would need to be added to the Forum.


Just let me know when it is needed and I will create a private board for the team's discussions.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-20 21:49
Oooh, good--sounds like you'd make a good captain! :-)
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2008-04-20 21:50
I'm afraid that I will not have enough time in the coming weeks for that.
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-04-20 22:48
Since he hasn't been seen on the forum in a long time, I nominate Dagh. He might get a win against those Hiarcs zombies!

Alan
Parent - - By tomski1981 (*****) [ca] Date 2008-04-24 21:05
i would suggest setting this up asap... (that is, when you have time :) )

edit:

can we insure it will not be infiltrated by HIARCS? :-P
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2008-04-24 21:20
when i was doing AN for Turbo i could easily have infiltrated their secret thread,this would have ruined the game.this a game of fun and a lot of trash talking,i cannot believe that a member of either forum would want to spoil it.i would suggest that any new members be carefully vetoed before they are allowed in either forums secret thread
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-04-24 21:52
i would suggest that any new members be carefully vetoed before they are allowed in either forums secret thread

Classic Freudian Slip!
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2008-04-24 22:00
excellent reply,i will be more carefull in future.i did post on Hiarcs forum on dec 25,maybe long term planning.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-24 22:08
It would not have ruined the game--if I had the impression that you were getting knowledge from the Secret Thread, I would have simply ignored you. :-) :-P
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2008-04-24 22:14
i know that,i was just trying to explain my integrity
Parent - - By tomski1981 (*****) [ca] Date 2008-04-24 22:22
that's true.. i've never been to the Hiarcs forum.. well, i tried, but it was confusing, so i didn't stay.... so i don't really know that crowd. i should not have assumed that they're 'evil' (or something)... though it's hard, since i consider rybka and members to be the 'good guys' :-p

i know we wouldn't cheat, and i guess they wouldn't either... they're probably good people.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2008-04-24 22:27
they are good guys and they have a great team like ourselves.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2008-04-20 22:56
this is great news that you will be available some of time,but we need somone who thinks like you and will follow this discipline to the end,free thinkers are no good in a match like this.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-20 23:11
Well, I would assume that the moves would be decided by popular vote as usual.  I think I would actually be willing to captain if the game was to begin on May 1 because that way, we could get things "under way" fairly well before my first time out of town when I leave the country (June 3 through June 10), during which I could transfer captain duties to someone else (assuming that the Hiarcs Forum Team would be okay with that), as well as during the national mountain running championships (I'll be in the northeast probably from roughly June 18 through June 27) and then when I go down to Georgia to run in the Peachtree Road Race on 4 July (I would probably be out of town July 1 through July 6).  However, it would seem more straightforward to find someone who is likely to be around in a stable fashion for at least three-month period.  In any case, I would definitely recommend starting the match on 1 May instead of 1 June because it will probably last between 3 and 4 months between the two games (unless we play them both simultaneously, which even though is more normal for correspondence, I don't think would be as much fun for most people), and I think that starting it at the beginning of May would maximize the number of participants throughout.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2008-04-20 23:26
no way popular vote.the captain must demand each individual on the engine he specifies does AN. he then collagates all available information and makes the choice of move and that includes everyone.waste of time otherwise. i think we already need a private forum.the enemy is watching.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-21 00:28
Nah, Dylan made a very good point in the Hiarcs Forum: if it isn't done by popular vote where everyone has an equal say, and moves are chosen that are different from those suggested, there will be a feeling of discontent and people will quickly leave the game, including many strong players, and then we won't have a team anymore and there will be no communication of good ideas.  Your idea would work well in the Middle Ages where people would feel more comfortable being subservient to a master. :-)  While your idea is good on a "per move" basis, it would not work as well for an entire game as popular vote.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2008-04-21 09:05
i was thinking more along military lines,where everyone is given a specific job to do,this is especially important in the middle game,opening could be by popular vote and endgame left to tbs.
Parent - - By tomski1981 (*****) [ca] Date 2008-04-23 00:44
i'm not a strong player, and so it's unlikely i will get invited.. but, can the private forum later be made public? i would like to learn the thinking behind many of the moves...
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-23 02:28
You don't need to be a strong player--probably most of the people on the teams in these things rely almost entirely on their computers.  That might not be the best idea in many endgames, but it works reasonably well in middlegames and openings with database access.
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-25 01:39
So it seems that I have suddenly become captain and "admin" of a new subforum; I'll start admitting people as soon as I learn how... :-)
Parent - - By Hamlet (**) [ru] Date 2008-04-21 09:42
You are wrong. Check this out:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/challenge?gid=1464744

It works out very well and they are using popular vote!
Their record is 3-0 right now (they are going to win their current game)
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2008-04-21 10:27
we would be playing much stronger opposition than a single GM and on that basis i stick to my premise.
Parent - By noctiferus (***) [it] Date 2008-04-21 12:12 Edited 2008-04-21 12:18
You didn't mention the fact that at move 41 they have 1400 pages of comments in the main forum, + an indefinite number of pages on specific lines in dedicated forums  ( the old match against GM Nickel had only 1000 pages in the main forum.., but we were not so organized at that time.  I'm not contributing now, because it's seriously time demanding.). Hard days coming...
Anyway, I agree, it works, and works well, but people (analyzers ) undergo heavy loads: similar to this captain's approach, but with popular vote everybody gets more involved and responsible, and the amount of analysis gets near to explosion... :)
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [hu] Date 2008-04-22 23:24
The other way would be to agree to prolonged timeouts - I don't know if this makes sense. Right now, we'll wait for somebody to step forward and volunteer to coordinate everything.

Vas
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-25 12:34
Okay, I'm able to add people now, so EVERYONE please message me if you wish to play for our team.  I have already added Vas automatically since he accepted the challenge. :-)
Parent - - By tomski1981 (*****) [ca] Date 2008-04-23 00:40
why not have a captain and co-captain? co-captain will make decisions when captain is gone. it's a good idea, since nobody can be sure what can come up....
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-23 02:27
Ahh, good--now that we have a volunteer for co-captain, I guess we can get this thing underway :-D
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-23 15:08
Since nobody is volunteering to be captain, I'll volunteer, but this volunteer offer is valid ONLY if someone else volunteers to be co-captain.  The main responsibilities of the job of co-captain would be counting votes and placing the official team move on the Hiarcs Forum on time so as not to overstep the time limit of 48 hours per move (after all, we don't want to give the Hiarcs Forum any extra reason to laugh at us and make fun of us.)  Once we have captain and co-captain established, we need to discuss getting together a secret thread and also when we will begin the game.  Personally, I would like to begin the first game sometime in early May, but obviously we need broad general agreement.

Of course, other volunteers for captain are quite welcome and encouraged.
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2008-04-23 16:19
If there are no volunteers to be co-captain I volunteer ;-)
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-23 18:01
Oh, yes, I think I have a pretty good idea how that would go...

2...c4 regards,
Turbo
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2008-04-23 18:04
Oh yes 2...c4!! nice memories. But if nobody volunteers I am available.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2008-04-23 18:07
I see--so in such a case, you would promise not to be part of the Hiarcs Forum Team and not help them in any way? ;-)
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2008-04-23 18:11
Maybe I will have to as if nobody volunteers it maybe the only way to prevent your immediate forfeit.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-04-23 18:30
Perfidious Albion... 
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2008-04-23 18:49
Is that a crack at us untrustworhy Brits or the name of your favourite soccer team? eg http://www.westbrom.com/0/site_index.html

Boston Tea Party Regards,
Harvey
Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / The Ultimate Fish Challenge
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