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- - By The Wizard (***) Date 2020-02-02 22:09 Upvotes 1
Hi Folks, It seems I have managed to persuade :grin: she who must be obeyed :razz: to be allowed to get one of the 64 core 128 threads AMD 3990X processors mainly with the idea that it will really help me with the audio and video stuff I do for our shop\business which although totally true is I think pushing it a bit. Not sure which motherboard I will be opting for just yet but I will be watercooling it .... I have been told to stay away from sub zero phase units, fridge freezers etc as it may be unhealthy for me hahahahahahha oh and that I must totally tidy up my computer room and redecorate it :eek::eek:

Regards
Tony
Parent - - By Antares (****) Date 2020-02-03 02:32
Tony, NationalPauly still alive? :grin:
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2020-02-03 18:10
Continue our game first. Its pending since ages. :twisted:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2020-02-03 20:07
He probably thinks it's your move! :yell:
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2020-02-05 12:44
:yell::yell::yell::yell::yell:
Parent - - By Antares (****) Date 2020-02-03 21:52
You claimed you can draw by repetition, and seeing that line i haven't found anything to challenge that claim... will have to look at it with a bigger machine when i have one available (financial markets currently hot due Coronavirus... :twisted:).
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2020-02-05 12:43
Still complete the game. :twisted:
Parent - - By The Wizard (***) Date 2020-02-07 22:37
Hi Antares, Concerning Paul (National12) I have phoned, text, emailed and PMed him from this message board but to no avail .... i know he kept in touch with other board members but sadly I suspect the worst :sad: .... I believe he had no family anymore but I may be wrong ...

Paul and I got on so very well and even though he hated texting he always got back to me and then all communication stopped

Regards
Tony
Parent - By Antares (****) Date 2020-02-07 23:07
Thanks for answer Tony, definitely not what i wanted to read. :sad::confused:
Parent - By jpqy (**) Date 2020-02-03 07:18
Hi Tony,

I'm for sure looking forward to see some first benches..!!

When it's official release date..i thought around 7th Feb.2020 if i'm right.

Wish you good luck with your new build and most with the redecorating your room :wink:

Kind regards,
JP.
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2020-02-03 18:17
Hi Tony,

I don't come on the forum anymore- but this I do look forward to! I know you intend to take this thing to the  extremity of his overclocking abilities! It's going to be an interesting project!

I'm thinking- when the fun starts, extra buttered popcorn  with Parmesan cheese as a topping, and possibly a pizza and beer on hand when you start posting your pic's!

What type of wood base for the MOBO - I'd suggest  this thing deserves at the very least  "mahogany" ! :smile:

Huge  Nitrogen tank -for cooling- timed to spray the CPU  block -at intervals? :twisted:

Best Wishes,
As Always!
Robert
Parent - - By Antares (****) Date 2020-02-03 21:53
Happy New Year! As Always! :grin:
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2020-02-03 22:38
Happy New Year to you as well! :wink:
Parent - - By user923005 (****) Date 2020-02-03 19:43
Phenomenal cosmic power will be at your beck and call.
Use it for good, and not for evil.
:twisted:
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2020-02-03 22:37
Tony already found that in Thailand,Bangkok in a  Buddhist monastery where he found an ancient text holding the secrets to the phenomenal cosmic powers over the will to conservative thinking.
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2020-02-03 23:14
Tony,
Sidebar, post history conversation, went with the micro mobo that you showed concern over the way the vrm's placed. No problem! Placed fans over the memory and helped cool both memory and vrms. Went with modest 14 core. get about 33,000 kN/s  overclocked on the lowest setting 50c cpu- 70c MOS- 34c system temps!

I don't need 64 cores ...yet! I have two full towers in my living room under my desk now!

There is no end to this -NO END!

I remember my first build on Rybka Forum a core two duo! Then it went to a quad core- then to a 6 core -then to an 8 core -now a 14 core -now you and Dann come along pushing the 64 core SIXTY FOUR CORES!
You two guys have a hell of a lot of nerve coming out on this forum stress out forum enthusiasts pushing the envelope -16-32 cores I could just twitch a little when I read about it- but 64 CORES?
Rybka Forum will need a suicide hot line!
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2020-02-06 03:16 Edited 2020-02-06 03:23
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3990X  is reported to run  "extremely" hot. This cpu is not for someone unwilling to go all out in designing a build that will have proper airflow and cooling - or, the big bucks to buy the top of the line computer case that affords room to build the best cooling system.

I wouldn't recommend this cpu as a starter project for a first build! AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X would be a beast without, continued monitored cooling while  running chess analysis for extended periods of time-to even consider going to a 3990X!

Addendum:

Members here forget that Dann is far from being a novice in the field and has expertise when it comes to builds, as does Tony!
The idea of going into a build like this by those with limited experience should do so with care-if not trepidation! Takes real research and planning to do "any build" ANY BUILD!
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2020-02-06 10:22
Okay but worth trying IMHO.
Parent - - By Antares (****) Date 2020-02-06 15:31
For something useful definitely... but not for (computer/corr-)chess, that's dead.
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2020-02-06 16:06

>but not for (computer/corr-)chess, that's dead.


Not yet....
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2020-02-18 14:29

>AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3990X  is reported to run  "extremely" hot


These reports are definitely wrong. I've built 2 computers with TR 3970X and 2 with 3990X. They've got Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 heatsinks which work quite well. 3970X run at 72°C at full load (280W CPU power consumption), 3990X run at only 65°C. This is probably due to the fact the 3990X has 8 + 1 dice whilst the 3970X has only 4 + 1. So power consumption per die is much less for 3990X.
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2020-02-21 18:21 Edited 2020-02-21 18:31
Thanks for the posting! Can you tell me what AMD is stating from their own research what the thermal level should be kept under to prevent cpu degradation?

Running between 65 degrees Celsius and and around mid-70's isn't shoddy over the short haul. 
I'd rather it were preferably within the low end of the 50's or at max mid 60's Celsius!
But from my own perspective when entering into the 70's Celsius -one begins to stretch the envelop!

Addendum:
Be that as it may, that's my own timidity speaking ! By comparison and scope , you've build many more machines, with far more complex hardware then I! I'm sure your competence goes beyond my experience, with regard to both components and for that matter overclocking! :)

Robert
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2020-02-22 08:17
AMD allows 95°C - 65°C is quite good. I improved cooling a bit by replacing Noctua's stock fan by 2x Noctua NF-A15 HS-PWM. Temperatures are now around 62°C. I think high voltages are much more dangerous. With default settings VCore for some cores goes up to 1.5V at highest turbo speed. As I don't like this, in my setup all cores are running all the time at 3.6 GHz at 0.968 V VCore.
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2020-02-22 18:24 Edited 2020-02-22 18:31
I'm surprised that that heatsink does that great a job in dissipating heat!  It doesn't block any components on the mobo?

Addendum:

It has some great reviews!
- - By The Wizard (***) Date 2020-02-07 22:53
Hi Folks, Overclocking the 3990X should not be a problem just like any other CPU although I will need a new waterblock but the rest of the WC loop will be fine .... I have been reading that you can get issues with so many cores hitting the SSDs ... Maybe some optane memory will help this but AMD I suspect will not admit to that and the problem maybe software specific.

As usual though it will be mounted on the lump of wood with no case ... also considering a new graphics card

Regards
Tony
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2020-02-08 08:33 Edited 2020-02-08 08:51 Upvotes 1
Tony!

>"lump"  of wood? 


Man, that sounds so ...strange! :lol:

Addendum:

I almost feel some how you've progressed!

Lump of Wood !

It reminds me of Boulder Co. Kagyu teachings of  crazy wisdom!
Parent - By jpqy (**) Date 2020-02-16 14:22
Now you have something to pass :wink:

http://ipmanchess.yolasite.com/amd---intel-chess-bench.php

Kind regards,
JP.
Parent - By bformless (**) Date 2020-02-21 12:49 Edited 2020-02-21 12:57 Upvotes 1
I suggest removing the heatspreader (=> delid) and then cooling the die directly with liquid metal and a huge EK waterblock cooling solution.

Watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1wyUMZVv4k
- - By The Wizard (***) Date 2020-03-21 11:35
Hi Folks, Apologies for the time to taken to get back on this but lets just say I had health issues for the first time in my life (No not Clovid 19) and ended up in hospital 3 times and finding out I am a really grumpy patient :surprised:
Anyway I eventually got things ordered and they arrived this morning :grin: ...... I got a second M2 EVO 970 PLUS simply to run the C drive in RAID MODE  .... I needed a new waterblock for obvious reasons and bit the bullet so to speak where the motherboard was concerned :roll:
        Also after reading various articles concerning the 3990X and windows 10 I have gone for Windows 10 Pro for WORKSTATIONS ..... Putting the hardware together usually takes under an hour but reinstalling all the software is the bane of everyone at this point and although certain tricks I have used in the past to get around this it maybe SHORT CUTS CAUSE LONG DELAYS going from Intel to AMD where the motherboard and OS drivers are concerned

Regards
Tony
Attachment: IMG_20.jpg (453k)
Parent - By jpqy (**) Date 2020-03-21 16:30
No problem, your health is the most important!

Enjoy your build :wink:
Parent - By Labyrinth (*****) Date 2020-03-21 21:46
Love that pic, table full of good times :-P
- - By The Wizard (***) Date 2020-03-25 18:15 Upvotes 1
Hi, Been messing about with settings but must admit a lot of the BIOS settings are a bit confusing IE: I have to learn what it means lol .... I did a run but have no idea if I was running on all cores, in the pic it says 37 nodes

Regards
Parent - By user923005 (****) Date 2020-03-25 18:18 Upvotes 1
200M NPS is the speed of Deeper Blue, which had 480 of Hsu's Chess CPUs in it.
Parent - - By Labyrinth (*****) Date 2020-03-26 01:29
209 Meganodes, very nice. To cover all positions from the starting position at each ply: 

0    1                                              4.779 nanoseconds
1    20                                            95.59 nanoseconds
2    400                                          1.912 microseconds
3    8902                                        42.55 microseconds
4    197281                                    942.9 microseconds
5    4865609                                  23.25 milliseconds
6    119060324                              569 milliseconds
7    3195901860                             15.2 seconds
8    84998978956                           6.771 minutes
9    2439530234167                       3 hours 14 minutes 9.42 seconds
10    69352859712417                    3 days 20 hours 4 minutes 23.01 seconds
11    2097651003696806                116 days 50 minutes 51.22 seconds
12    62854969236701747              9.52 years
13    1981066775000396239           300 years
14    61885021521585529237         9373 years

So if you were really dedicated and had a third of a year to spare (along with plenty of electricity) you could calculate the entire starting position up to move 6 : p
Parent - - By user923005 (****) Date 2020-03-26 03:00
Mini-max node counts are meaningless.
Pure alpha-beta provably gets the exact same answer in the square root of the node count.
So the last one, 9373 years, gives less than 100 years for a perfectly correct answer.
And if we allow unsound pruning (verified null move, LMR etc.), then absurdly shorter.
Parent - By user923005 (****) Date 2020-03-26 03:07
Speaking of which, perft(15) has been calculated:
https://www.chessprogramming.org/Perft_Results
The interesting part of which is that in order to calculate this value, it is necessary to have computed all wins/losses/draws within this space.
It is a crime against nature that they were not recorded.
Parent - - By Labyrinth (*****) Date 2020-03-26 17:15

>Mini-max node counts are meaningless.


I don't understand, by mini-max node count are you referring to the engine performance? Why would that be meaningless? It could be retooled not to do any pruning I imagine..

>Pure alpha-beta provably gets the exact same answer in the square root of the node count.


What 'answer'? I was only looking at the time to calculate through every position at each ply based on the nodes/second performance from the engine.
Parent - - By user923005 (****) Date 2020-03-26 17:29
RE: "What 'answer'? I was only looking at the time to calculate through every position at each ply based on the nodes/second performance from the engine."

The node count of all the nodes is not the answer.  The answer (if you use alpha-beta) is the square root of the node count (assuming good move ordering).  It sounds absurd that you can look at a tiny fraction of the nodes in the tree and get the exact same answer as if you looked at every single node, but that is how it works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha%E2%80%93beta_pruning

For that reason alpha-beta pruning is totally sound (e.g. there is no danger at all that you will miss a better move like other pruning techniques such as null move pruning).
Parent - By bob (Gold) Date 2020-03-26 20:37
May as well include the really exact answer.

For D even:

nodes = 2 * W ^ (D/2)  (which is 2 x sqrt(W^D).

For D odd:

nodes = W ^ floor (D/2) + W ^ ceil (D/2)

The bit snag here is "W".  Which is not a constant.  At ply=1 it is obviously 20.  But beyond that it varies all over the place.

BTW for the non-mathematical, "floor(x)" rounds X down to the nearest whole (integer) value.  "ceil(x)" rounds X up to the next whole (integer) value.

That's why, for D even, floor (D/2) == ceil (D/2)...  So 2 * W ^ (D/2)

And that does assume _perfect_ move ordering.  Most programs today get it right about 90% of the time (IE if you fail high at a node, 90% of the time you fail high on the first move.)  Unfortunately, that 10% blows this number up.  And NOT by just 10%.  It could be 1000%  or 10000%.  Or even more.
Parent - - By Labyrinth (*****) Date 2020-03-27 00:02

>The node count of all the nodes is not the answer.


The answer to what question?
Parent - - By user923005 (****) Date 2020-03-27 04:17
With every bit of information at my disposal, what move should I play?
Parent - By MrKris (***) Date 2020-03-27 06:29
[Event "World Blitz Final"]
[Site "Astana KAZ"]
[Date "2012.7.10"]
[Round "27"]
[White "Carlsen, Magnus"]
[Black "Radjabov, Teimour"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "2788"]
[ECO "A00"]
[Opening "Ware (Meadow Hay) Opening"]
[WhiteElo "2837"]
[TimeControl "420+2"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "63"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. a4 e5 2. e4 Nf6 3. Nc3 Nc6 4. Nf3 Bb4 5. Bb5 O-O 6. O-O d6 7. d3 Bg4 8.
Ne2 a6 9. Bxc6 bxc6 10. Ng3 Nh5 11. h3 Nxg3 12. fxg3 Bd7 13. g4 Bc5+ 14.
Kh1 Qe7 15. Qe1 f6 16. Nh4 g6 17. Bh6 Rf7 18. Rb1 Bb6 19. b3 d5 20. Nf3 Re8
21. Qg3 Bc5 22. Rbe1 dxe4 23. dxe4 Bd6 24. Re2 c5 25. Nd2 Be6 26. Qd3 g5
27. Qxa6 Kh8 28. Nc4 Bxc4 29. Qxc4 Rg8 30. h4 gxh4 31. g5 Rg6 32. Ref2 {1
min. Lc0-Ls12.2 32...Qd7 -4.57 33.Rxf6 Rfxf6 34.Rxf6 h3 35.Rf5 etc.} 1-0
- - By The Wizard (***) Date 2020-03-27 15:37 Edited 2020-03-27 15:56
Hi, A new BIOS has just been released so I did a quick run for JPQY before installing it ..... I have not optimised the BIOS settings with most set to AUTO .... I ran the 3990X with 128 Threads at 40x100 so 4Ghz using the POP version of ASMFish simply because it scores a lot higher than the BMI2 version which is the opposite to my Intel setup ..... When running Stockfish 11 in chessbase with 64 cores the max temp was 47C and when I used all 128 threads it went up to a max of 57C and I think the voltage was at 1.232

https://valid.x86.fr/0dqqiy

Regards
Tony
Parent - By The Wizard (***) Date 2020-03-27 17:16
Hi, Still with the above settings but changed the fCLK memory speed. Now setting the options to faster speeds in the BIOS does not necessarily make it so because there is a latency hit if they are not kept at a 1 to 1 ratio such as 1800 fCLK and 3600 mem speed. Lowering the mem latencies can produce good gains but I have not tried that yet. ... Anyway a little better at 4Ghz
- - By The Wizard (***) Date 2020-03-28 14:36
Hi, There are so many BIOS settings :eek:
Parent - By MrKris (***) Date 2020-03-29 05:01
N/sec http://ipmanchess.yolasite.com/amd---intel-chess-bench.php ; $'s quick web-search today

221,523.123  N/s/$=56800.95 (3.04xGold, 3.106xEPYC,  8.48xPlatinum)
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3990X  $3,899.99 - Newegg.com x1 = $3,899.99

200,344,425  N/s/$=18657.59
Intel Xeon Gold 6238  $2,680.00+$4.49sh = Amazon.com x4 = $10,737.96

275,142,992  N/s/$=18286.81 (2.73xPlatinum)
AMD EPYC 7742  $7,522.99 - Newegg.com x2 = $15,045.98

277,481,942  N/s/$=6694.61
Intel Xeon Platinum 8180  $10,362.14 · NextWarehouse.com x4 = $41,448.56


I hope you do not mind me saying, it looks to me like a good business decision by Mrs. Wizard: the Ryzen 3990X with 56,801 N/sec per $1.00, 3 and 8 1/2 times the price/performance of its near competitors, amazing. (The EPYC was a huge gain vs. the Platinum, the T'ripper roughly that again vs. the EPYC!)
- - By The Wizard (***) Date 2020-03-30 21:41
Hi, Still messing about and have not had a single failed boot yet

https://valid.x86.fr/9tdd7f
Parent - - By jpqy (**) Date 2020-03-31 06:50
Is this still @4.0Ghz! ..by just changing Bios & settings you get from 209Mnps to 227Mnps ..a very nice gain you get there!

JP.
Parent - - By The Wizard (***) Date 2020-03-31 07:13
Hi, No No lol I put the CPUz verification link in the post so you could see the speed etc https://valid.x86.fr/9tdd7f .... Still learning what does what in the BIOS

Regards
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