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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / Aquarium 2020 available for sale
- - By braindied (**) Date 2019-12-07 03:56
I see Aq2020 is 35.96 euro, and Aq2019 is 35.95 euro. Must be getting something new for the extra 0.01? ;-)

I am very interested to know whether the 2020 version fixes the UCI display issue with engines that output WDL strings, and therefore nothing displays in IA pane.
Parent - - By RSeanOConnell (**) Date 2019-12-08 17:54
It would be very nice to know what is new in 2020.  They don't do a very good job of marketing the differences in each version.
Parent - - By Ghengis-Kann (***) Date 2019-12-17 19:22
I emailed ChessOK and asked if anything besides the database was changed from AQ2019 to AQ2020.

This is the reply I got:

Also exists changes and improvements in interface
Fixed few bugs from previus versions
But only programers may answer detailly pn this question

Hopefully that cleared up any questions you might have about what's new.
Parent - - By RSeanOConnell (**) Date 2019-12-17 23:44
If I were to upgrade from 2014 to 2020 I assume I would simply have to copy the data files to the 2020 directory?  Or have 2020 point to the 2014 data files so I could run both copies simultaneously using different engines?  (not accessing same tree files at the same time)
Parent - By ventura07 (***) Date 2019-12-17 23:49
I think you are always best to copy the data files to the 2020 data directory.
Parent - - By ventura07 (***) Date 2019-12-17 23:51
I have Aquarium 2020 if you have a question as to what change has taken place.
Parent - By RSeanOConnell (**) Date 2019-12-18 00:00
Is it worth it go upgrade?  2014 is doing what I need.  I don't want to mess up anything I have done.  Granted I do have it all backed up on an external but....

What are the significant differences as far as Idea and analysis are concerned?

Thank you!!!
Parent - - By bformless (**) Date 2020-01-04 13:58
You want to know what's new?

There's a "2020" on the box with a King, Rook and a Knight.

Parent - By bformless (**) Date 2020-01-04 14:05 Upvotes 1
I am still using AQ2012 and it's working fine and flawless.
Parent - - By mattchess (**) Date 2019-12-18 17:45 Edited 2019-12-18 18:14
Just picked it up - price is not too high given the bug fixes, access to 7 man tablebases, and (currently) one year subscription to ChessKing Learn service (training).
Not done with install yet so can't comment on what is different, if anything.

Forgot how long it takes to copy the data directory - this will take a while :P
Parent - - By mattchess (**) Date 2019-12-20 14:54
I don't know if this has anything to do with 2020 or not, but I am noticing that the "best line from tree" functions appears to be working reliably now.  I've run into no crashes so far whereas previously I occasionally crashed when using that.
Parent - - By Leto (***) Date 2019-12-25 15:07
With the 2019 version what I do if it has analysed a lot of positions is I stop it, close Aquarium, reopen, and then I do the best line command.  Also I tend to only ask it to do the best line thing per main line, it's probably easier on Aquarium.  So for instance if my root node has three main variations I'll open each variation and have it do the best line on each variation, rather than asking it to show me all three main best lines at the same time.
Parent - - By cma6 (****) Date 2020-01-03 01:39
I never noticed "best line from tree" before I saw these posts. I clicked on it but did not see any result. Is one supposed to use it while IDeA is running or how does one use it?
  I have Aqr 2018 version 11.0.0 (Bld 100). Had anyone run IDeA in Aqr 2020 enough to see if there are any noticeable improvements?
Parent - - By mattchess (**) Date 2020-01-03 06:20
You need to configure it to point to a tree - in my case I export to a master tree and have tree 1 pointing to that - very useful for seeing what the best line is from a position as currently evaluated in idea - if there are multiple variations with close evals it adds them all to the notation window
Parent - - By cma6 (****) Date 2020-01-03 15:14
never noticed "best line from tree" before I saw these posts. I clicked on it but did not see any result. Is one supposed to use it while IDeA is running or how does one use it?

Thanks, Mattchess. I have the standard setup where each project is connected to one tree. The project also has one master tree set when the project is created. Also, when doing infinite analysis in database window, tasks are sent to the project tree.
Do I have to change anything to be able to use "best line from tree"?
Parent - - By mattchess (**) Date 2020-01-03 19:45
click the small wrench icon in the ribbon under that group of buttons and you can set what trees you want "tree 1" and "tree 2" to point to from the currently active CTG configuration.  I don't remember what it is set to by default.  But you will be able to set it to any tree you want.  You can also assign the Delta % in that configuration window.  So it that is set to 0% it will only show multiple variations if they are identical.  Or you can set it to something greater than 0% to get more variations. 

It is, in my opinion, an incredibly useful feature for exploring your IDEA results in Sandbox, verify the evals from the leaf nodes yourself, and decide how you want to expand the tree.  I will often insert IA lines into the notation window from leaf nodes or key points in the lines and then feed them back to idea for further analysis to confirm that IDEA results are robust.

When you plot the chart in Sandbox, you can set it to pull the evals from Tree 1 and Tree 2 as well so you can visually see what happened in a game relative to your IDEA tree evals.
Parent - - By cma6 (****) Date 2020-01-04 02:31
I could not find any documentation on these 3 commands on the Tree menu (accessible only from Datbase pane, not IDeA; I don't use Sandbox): Best Line from Tree 1; Best Line from Tree 2; All Lines from Tree 1.
I found the wrench after clicking Tree menu. Clicking the wrench shows Tree1: IDeA; IA; Stockfish; Komodo; Master, Cap, H6.
Tree 2 is identical to Tree 1.
In some games, clicking "Best Line from Tree 1" inserted a line from the tree into the game notation window. But of what value is this? One already knows the best line (from W or Bl perspective) from the evals shown in the tree move by move. And the lines inserted into notation pane had no special value.
I run IDeA very deeply and very often. But it is not clear what these 3 commands are supposed to do or even what is meant by "Best Line from Tree 1".
How do you use this tool to explore IDeA results; or "verify" evals from IDeA?
I never heard of "Delta %" or why one would use it.
Thanks in advance for your guidance on this mysterious topic.
Parent - - By mattchess (**) Date 2020-01-04 02:54 Upvotes 1
It is not really any different then exploring the tree move by move from Sandbox mode - as you do that in Sandbox mode it copies the moves you explore into the notation pane.  This just automates that process.

The basic difference is that this will copy those lines to your notation pane automatically without you needing to go through move by move and it will immediately show you what the leaf nodes of the tree are for those lines (annotated with an eval and "IDEA" in the notation window).  You can then go do IA from multiple engines of your choice to your depth of choice from those positions and copy those lines to the notation pane and then copy all of that to your idea project, click the "all positions" button and then evaluate in IDEA with all those positions added.  The delta % allows you to set a sensitivity for how close two candidate moves in the tree need to be to be included.  I use 1% (note this is a percent difference, not a centipawn difference).

For example, if IDEA shows multiple candidates with close evals - or evals I personally find suspect or remain unconvinced, I will use this.  l explore those lines and look closely at the ends of the lines to greater depth to make sure the evals still stand up under greater scrutiny using a variety of engines.  Then I will put those resulting lines back into the idea project for further analysis if I believe it requires further analysis before I am convinced.

But you are right - it isn't anything different than just manually clicking through - I just like that it speeds up the process for me.
Parent - - By cma6 (****) Date 2020-01-04 20:33
Thanks Matt for detailed explanation. How does one set the delta %?
Parent - By mattchess (**) Date 2020-01-04 21:00
It is on the same screen with other configuration info when you click the wrench icon - lower left of the window that opens
Parent - - By Leto (***) Date 2019-12-25 15:09
I made the mistake of purchasing the 2019 version just days prior to the release of the 2020 version.  I asked them if I could get a discount for the 2020 version and they said no and that he doesn't believe I didn't know the 2020 version was just about to release.  Their loss, I'll wait for the 2021 version, besides the 2019 version is working very well for me.
Parent - - By mattchess (**) Date 2019-12-25 18:44
That is very surprising to me - they should have taken care of that for you.  Stupid to potentially lose a customer over less than $40.
Did you purchase through ChessOK?  I have found in the past that they were responsive to my questions/requests.
Parent - By Leto (***) Date 2020-01-04 15:18
Yea I purchased through ChessOk.  It's not like I was asking them to give me the 2020 version for free, all I wanted was a discount, whether it be $5 off or whatever anything helps to take the sting away from having purchased the 2019 version just days prior to the release of the 2020 version.  They used to offer discounts for their Aquarium software back then to entice previous customers to upgrade, for some reason they must have decided it's not worth it to them to offer it anymore.  I'll just wait for the 2021 version.
Parent - By ANUAR71 (**) Date 2020-05-06 18:52
they make offer less 50 % . . .erm . . .i goted one :smile::smile::smile:
- - By sbm (*) Date 2020-04-26 11:22 my opinion for several years they do almost nothing ...just cosmetics...and changing some icons. Otherwise, none of the very well known bugs, complains where addressed, nor suggestions where taken in account....they do not even bother to make a proper Find and Replace to change the numbers on the website regarding Aquarium versions...(2019 appearing inter changeably with 2020)

If You guys who had a track record of upgrading could compile a short and consistent list of changes, bug fixes and improvements...overt lets say 4 years ...I would really appreciate it. I read the forum for almost 10 years backward for suggestions, complaints and similar...but not experienced any single real solution to those issues...this project is halted...
Parent - - By Ghengis-Kann (***) Date 2020-04-28 16:09
It's always been this way. bugs, undocumented or partially completed features, I tried changing the fonts in the tree annotation window once and ended up re-installing the entire program. Right now I am at a point of re-installing A2020 after a crash destroyed the functionality of my tree configuration window, but won't even bother. I just reverted to AQ2019 and started importing my current projects.

Complaining won't do any good because it is what it is.
It is also one of a kind and there is no competition.
Chessbase isn't really an alternative because it does not have the ability to create permanent evaluated trees.

I just roll with the punches and give them $40/year, but at this point will probably hold off on future purchases unless there is some meaningful change or they at least state clearly what the changes are.
Parent - By FirebrandX (**) Date 2020-04-28 16:26
I managed to trip a bug within a minute after installing: I mass-deleted all the packaged engines in the engines tab, and the program glitched out after that and none of the buttons for adding an engine would work. I had to re-install and delete the engines one at a time to keep the program from bugging out.
Parent - - By ChiefPushesWood (**) Date 2020-04-29 15:30

>Chessbase isn't really an alternative because it does not have the ability to create permanent evaluated trees.

I've tried to go back to Chessbase more than a handful of times this past year. But there are things that Aquarium does (I'm talking about infinite analysis stuff - not even IDEA) that CB just doesn't do.

Parent - - By dickie (**) Date 2020-04-29 17:18
Also the ability to develop tree configurations showing a range of data from multiple databases, so helpful in assisting opening play, is not available in Chessbase or elsewhere. I have over 40 columns of data I can scan while deciding on my next move.
Parent - By FirebrandX (**) Date 2020-04-29 17:34
The ability to control exactly which moves are considered is my favorite. Last time I tried a Fritz GUI, all I could do was press a button to subtract the top move. Not anywhere near the control I like in my analysis.
Parent - - By ChiefPushesWood (**) Date 2020-04-29 18:58
40 columns huh? Good grief :)

Parent - - By Ghengis-Kann (***) Date 2020-04-30 01:27
Somewhere in the depths of my memory I remember seeing a warning not to delete Weak Delphi.
I never dared to defy it, and now we know what happens if you do.
Parent - - By ChiefPushesWood (**) Date 2020-04-30 02:26
Nah... I deleted all of the 'stock' engines that came with AQ2020. I have experienced no issues.
Obviously, FBX had a different experience... but it isn't a given.

Parent - - By FirebrandX (**) Date 2020-04-30 10:06
Well the key difference is I highlighted and deleted all the engines at the same time. The program glitched out after that. When I reinstalled and deleted them one at a time, it seems to be fine now.
Parent - By FirebrandX (**) Date 2020-05-02 12:12
Another glitch I discovered: Analyzing a position with Stockfish, I found the stored ply in the IA tree maxes out at 63. I analyzed to ply 72, and the PV showed 63 for several of the moves in the IA tree until it synced up with the actual depth of the next move in the sequence, and then counted down normally.
Parent - - By centipawn (*) Date 2020-04-30 15:43
Good material there for the long May Day weekend under lockdown: I can easily spend a day wondering what is in those 40 columns. I've got 14 in my setup.
Parent - By pawnslinger (****) Date 2020-05-01 06:35
I don't have any columns... since I don't use the feature.  But I do use more than 14 different engines!  Most of which have been previously identified (and scorned) in this forum... but I never let that discourage me.  I just love to see all of them cranking together in IA mode.  They gen a boat load of good alternatives... I hate it when they mostly all agree on the candidate move.  Thankfully that does not happen often.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / Aquarium 2020 available for sale

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