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Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / witchesbutt Vs. Vytron III
- - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-10-08 03:34 Edited 2019-10-08 03:36
And now I'll do something that I almost never do: PLAY FOR A DRAW. If I tried to beat you as black, and failed, and you turned it around, and defeated me, it'd not be the same. So if you really think you can beat me, I'll let you taste my best drawing line (the one that backtracked to the opening position makes 1.e4!? a flat 0.00, the one that made me quit 1.e4 so I no longer play it, because no such line exists for 1.d4, the best black has on there is some 0.03...)

So no Sicilian to be seen...

1. e4 e5

rnbqkbnr/pppp1ppp/8/4p3/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq -
Parent - - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-10-08 10:13
:cool:

2. Nf3

[book - considered a flank move but decided against as I had not studied deeply ]

I think I have chances here but you're a wily, strong player so I wont run my mouth .. yet .. :grin::lol::twisted:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-10-11 18:44

> I think I have chances here but you're a wily, strong player so I wont run my mouth .. yet .. :grin::lol::twisted:


What happened? When you played 1.e4 you told me I better throw the towel already because you're gonna beat me, now you have doubts about it? :eek:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6

r1bqkbnr/pppp1ppp/2n5/4p3/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq -
Parent - - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-10-12 09:59
:cool:

3.Bb5

:evil:

No doubts at all - just biding my time !!
BTW - I stopped using Mike Byrne's engines when the list of settings expanded to the point where I was unable to be confident that one setting did not up end another so if you do use his engines would appreciate the settings you use for LTC games using the highest ELO possible. I've asked at TalkChess but unlikely to get a response.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-10-22 02:50

> if you do use his engines would appreciate the settings you use for LTC games using the highest ELO possible


This is what I had to say about Mike Byrne's engines on Talkchess:

Honey is the latest version of the McBrain-McCain branches of Stockfish. Those branches were specifically coded to be useful in analysis of chess positions, with improvements that would allow it to find the best moves before Stockfish dev, other branches, or by using MultiPV internally (called the Tactical Settings).

Around the date McCain X was released I could say it was the definitive Stockfish version to use for analysis of correspondence games (it won me many games that I couldn't have won without it!). But time has passed, there have been important improvements on Stockfish that have made the differences with McCain/Honey less relevant, and that have meshed well with different code changes from other branches, like Eman or CFish (which is still better than Stockfish dev for this.) Otherwise, Honey suggests very similar moves to other branches so it seems its useful times have been over since July or thereabouts (in my experience).

As for the Crystal version, it adds code that makes it a tactical monster in test suites, being the best at finding the most tactics in the most positions the fastest, or something. In practice, I couldn't find an use for it. The problem is that if there's no tactic to find it's really slow, as in, if the best move isn't tactical it's going to take ages to find it. You'd want to use Crystal if there's a tactic on the board and you want to find it ASAP, but the conundrum is that you can't know that in advance, so if you already know about the tactic you don't need Crystal in the first place...

Disclaimer: I haven't tried Sugar NN yet, that's why it's absent from this post.


--------

So I don't think there's any reason to use MikeB's engines anymore. Specially, Dann Corbit has been releasing versions of MikeB's engines with his own changes, so if you're interested in using them you probably want to try Dann's versions. The settings to change would just be your cores (because it uses 1 by default) and both Dynamic Contempt and Dynamic_Contempt settings to ON (I don't know what those settings do, but I know people have turned them off by default because they don't know how contempt works and are unable to mix the asymmetric analysis of positions from white and black.)

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6

r1bqkbnr/1ppp1ppp/p1n5/1B2p3/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R w KQkq -
Parent - - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-10-22 08:58
:cool:

4. Ba4 *

Thank you very much Uly - I'm going to have a look at Dann's 'Polygon' and use the settings you suggest.
Its for analysis only - I've always had 'Dynamix XXX' to OFF so will try both ON - see what happens.

My book which needs updating says Ba4 so I'll go with that.

I keep forgetting about tournaments I've entered at ICCF - yesterday another started adding another 10 games or so to my already overloaded brain.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-10-24 08:04 Edited 2019-10-24 08:38

> Its for analysis only - I've always had 'Dynamix XXX' to OFF so will try both ON - see what happens.


The new paradigm is having individual analysis trees for white and for black, and only backtrack scores from those sides into their trees. So with Contempt On for analysis you may have some position where it says black is -0.10 from the black side but 0.10 from the white side. Without contempt the position might show 0.00 and would be mixed with other positions that are actually 0.00. With it you just go and put 0.10 in your white tree and -0.10 in your black tree, and you're done.

>My book which needs updating says Ba4 so I'll go with that.


Are you following my game against Harvey on Talkchess? Heh, we're playing because I guaranteed I'd be able to get a draw against anyone if I played 1.g4. Now I'll go and say I'd go and have a draw against anyone after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Bxc6 so yeah, Ba4 is best :lol:

>I keep forgetting about tournaments I've entered at ICCF - yesterday another started adding another 10 games or so to my already overloaded brain.


Something like that happened last week to me when the Final Round of my country's championship started and 9 games were thrown my way :eek: - And I got 4 whites and 5 blacks, let's hope I can overperform on the dark ones...

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6

r1bqkb1r/1ppp1ppp/p1n2n2/4p3/B3P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R w KQkq -
Parent - - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-10-24 16:23
:cool:

5. O-O *

:red:

As White I'm facing 1xGM, 2xSIM, 1xIM and 1xCCM and because I've given up on openings I threw c4 at all of them.
As Black I may just play the Dutch again .. maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment .. :yell::sad::mad:

Good luck against Harvey !!
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-10-27 07:05
Good luck in all your games! Some say that luck is unrelated to chess, but I still remember this Portuguese guy with some 2400 ICCF rating, that I wanted to beat so badly, but he played like an impenetrable wall. And then he played his knight to the wrong square and it was over for him. I never wanted to beat him *that way*, but it proves luck can be a huge factor in games.

>I've given up on openings I threw c4 at all of them


1.c4 is still a mystery to me, last time I had trouble in it someone just played into some position that was some Sicilian line with reversed colors where they had the advantage :eek: - the reason I don't play it is because I'm afraid to face my own draw line against it, where I'd not know what to do (it's my draw line because I don't know how white makes progress), but maybe if I face some 2500 GM or something I'll give it a try, assuming I'd not beat them anyway with something else.

>Good luck against Harvey !!


And against Zullil! :lol: He claims none of my moves have been better than Stockfish Depth 60's moves so a challenge within that game is also to play a move that blows Stockfish dev's socks off! :yell:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7

r1bqk2r/1pppbppp/p1n2n2/4p3/B3P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq -
Parent - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-10-27 10:15
:cool:

6. d3 *

:cool:

I'm learning a great deal from you Uly (here and at TalkChess) so thank you .. :grin:

I dont think I've played d3 in any of my games (dont have many with this opening anyway). I'm going to stick with c4 as (although drawish to some extent) it does sometimes allow me to have a better game when my opponent miscalculates and makes a sub-optimal move. However its not a good win if he makes a typo - I dont like cheapo wins and do not include them in my somewhat limited database.

Anytime your opening lines are on offer I'll accept with gratitude .. :grin::grin::grin::twisted:
- - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-10-27 12:06
:cool:

Hey mate ..

What I'll be doing is "opponent modeling", if I can find a way to have predicted all your played moves (I also missed 5...Ne7, but it transposed back to analysis) I'll be able to not be surprised anymore. Unless you're doing some psychotic analysis method that is impossible to be predicted by anyone :shock:


Okay so if you discover the 'ding-dong analysis' method .. :lol: .. a flawed move here (not a typo) would be very welcome .. :grin::grin::grin:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-10-30 13:30
Wow! I have around here 6.d3 as bad! I'm going to report a backsolved -0.01 score and announce that I'm now going to play for a win!

>Okay so if you discover the 'ding-dong analysis' method


Would rather go for the 'wet pussy analysis method' :lol:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. d3 b5

r1bqk2r/2ppbppp/p1n2n2/1p2p3/B3P3/3P1N2/PPP2PPP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq -
Parent - - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-11-02 09:32
:cool:

7. Bb3 *

:grin:

Whoa you're on a sticky wicket with the 'wet pussy analysis method' mate - thats a slippery slope .. Bb3 is the best here I think - all others a disaster .. for moi .. :evil:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-11-04 04:33
Unlike you I'm not very optimistic or anything, I will not claim that I will win. All I ask for is that you notify me when you see a negative eval in you screen :lol:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. d3 b5 7. Bb3 d6

r1bqk2r/2p1bppp/p1np1n2/1p2p3/4P3/1B1P1N2/PPP2PPP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq -
Parent - - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-11-04 12:52
:cool:

8.a4 *

:red::razz::roll:

Still in book so when out and start using an engine (should I need to) will be happy to provide details.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-11-07 22:30

> (should I need to)


Really? Bwahahaha! I can believe that you can beat me. I can believe that you will beat me. But beating me without ever needing to use an engine? A book win?

I used to believe everything was possible, but this one must be outside of that! :yell:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. d3 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. a4 Bd7

r2qk2r/2pbbppp/p1np1n2/1p2p3/P3P3/1B1P1N2/1PP2PPP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq -
Parent - - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-11-08 12:01
:cool:

9. Bd2 *

:red:

“Your beliefs create your reality.”

and from the Immortal Bard ..

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Vytron,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), WitchesButt to Vytron

:lol::lol::lol:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-11-10 22:52
My most memorable and fun games have been those I've lost, so really, I wouldn't mind if this one was of them :razz:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. d3 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. a4 Bd7 9. Bd2 O-O

r2q1rk1/2pbbppp/p1np1n2/1p2p3/P3P3/1B1P1N2/1PPB1PPP/RN1Q1RK1 w - -
Parent - - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-11-13 15:06
:cool:

10. h3 *

:razz:

Couldnt decide between h3 and Re1.
I'll take that as a compliment and I do PayPal too .. :grin::grin::grin:
I'm still a noobie-doobie when it comes to exploiting the full potential of ChessBase - I will search nevertheless and see if any game/s surface with any potential.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-11-16 23:25
Chessbase? I don't ever recall finding an use for it...

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. d3 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. a4 Bd7 9. Bd2 O-O 10. h3 b4

r2q1rk1/2pbbppp/p1np1n2/4p3/Pp2P3/1B1P1N1P/1PPB1PP1/RN1Q1RK1 w - -
Parent - - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-11-17 10:11
:cool:

11. Be3 *

:cool:

I think I took a wrong turn somewhere .. :confused::confused:
Up until recently I used the web for openings - I have my own book now for better or worse .. the latter probably !!
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-11-20 06:06

> I think I took a wrong turn somewhere .. :confused::confused:


To me it was 6.d3!?

In fact I have that 6.Re1!! is the only move there that keeps white with the initiative, 6.Nc3!? is about equal and the rest are advantageous for black. After my move I announce a -0.10 advantage for black. Nowhere near where I need to be, but making progress...

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. d3 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. a4 Bd7 9. Bd2 O-O 10. h3 b4 11. Be3 Na5

r2q1rk1/2pbbppp/p2p1n2/n3p3/Pp2P3/1B1PBN1P/1PP2PP1/RN1Q1RK1 w - -
Parent - - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-11-20 09:50
:cool:

12. Ba2 *

:cool:

I just checked another opening book and after 5 ....... Be7 I had quite a few useful choices .. Re1, d3, Bxc6, Qe2, d4, Nc3 ........ of course some more 'useful' than others. I think d3 showed a positive eval when I played it - not much mind but a playable move nonetheless.

:eek::evil::fat:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-11-25 23:28

> Re1, d3, Bxc6, Qe2, d4, Nc3 ........ of course some more 'useful' than others.


Except for Re1 I claim I can make you think you "made a wrong turn somewhere" with any of those moves, if you're interested we can check in a future game :smile:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. d3 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. a4 Bd7 9. Bd2 O-O 10. h3 b4 11. Be3 Na5
12. Ba2 Qe8

r3qrk1/2pbbppp/p2p1n2/n3p3/Pp2P3/3PBN1P/BPP2PP1/RN1Q1RK1 w - -
Parent - - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-11-26 09:08
:cool:

13. Nbd2 *

:grin:

OK we can check your 'attempt at influencing my mind over a few thousand miles' in a future game/s. Cant see you succeeding as I find it difficult to .. :eek::evil:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-11-27 21:16
I don't want to put the cart before the horse, first let's see what happens on this game. I claim white doesn't have enough compensation for the pawn. But is that true? I could be wrong :smile:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. d3 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. a4 Bd7 9. Bd2 O-O 10. h3 b4 11. Be3 Na5
12. Ba2 Qe8 13. Nbd2 Bxa4

r3qrk1/2p1bppp/p2p1n2/n3p3/bp2P3/3PBN1P/BPPN1PP1/R2Q1RK1 w - -
Parent - - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-11-28 13:15
:confused:

14. Qb1 *

:roll:

Seems to me that a draw is still on the cards - yeah I do think you're right. Position seems about equal now but are you able to uncork a corker .. :yell::twisted:
Well good luck trying to get a win.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-12-04 08:36
(I tried to send this 2 days ago but the forum gave me an error, and then I forgot to try again until now)

My chances to win this game are still remote, but I'll play as though as I can.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. d3 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. a4 Bd7 9. Bd2 O-O 10. h3 b4 11. Be3 Na5
12. Ba2 Qe8 13. Nbd2 Bxa4 14. Qb1 Nb7

r3qrk1/1np1bppp/p2p1n2/4p3/bp2P3/3PBN1P/BPPN1PP1/RQ3RK1 w - -
Parent - - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-12-05 10:05
:cool:

15. c3 *

:cool:

I'm prone to typos and boo-boos - that aside you could play a combo and throttle me. "sarona' helped me with my first compilation (Stockfish) on Windows. After a few (okay many) stupidities on my part finally got it to work. Next up is Leela -will be taking a double dose of my migraine meds BEFORE I begin.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2019-12-06 00:44
I thought Leela came already compiled?

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. d3 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. a4 Bd7 9. Bd2 O-O 10. h3 b4 11. Be3 Na5
12. Ba2 Qe8 13. Nbd2 Bxa4 14. Qb1 Nb7 15. c3 c5

r3qrk1/1n2bppp/p2p1n2/2p1p3/bp2P3/2PPBN1P/BP1N1PP1/RQ3RK1 w - -
Parent - By witchesbutt (**) Date 2019-12-08 10:50
:cool:

16. cxb4 *

:fat::grin:

Yes it does but I prefer compiling for my machine - Stockfish too. Fairly simple to do on a Mac (compiling SF that is) but a little more involved for Windoze systems. Sarona helped tremendously so finally (yesterday - Saturday) got a Leela compile successfully.
Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / witchesbutt Vs. Vytron III

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