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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / Lc0, Aquarium and Openings
- - By BHGP (**) Date 2019-05-31 06:43

I would like to get new ideas für using Lc0 in Opening preparation.

What I want: New ideas for openings using Lc0, I am not a correspondence player! So for me playability in a tournament match is important.

What I made already: Lc0 as an IAA-Engine, Stockfish as IDeA-Engine.

Does this configuration make sense? Or any other strategy?
Parent - - By ChiefPushesWood (**) Date 2019-05-31 18:38

My only (and best) contribution to your question will be this: Go to the forums Search function... Enter  the name 'Ghengis-Kann' (without the punctuation marks) into the 'User' field. Read, read and read. He is an OTB tourney player and he has freely shared of his methods and processes over the years.

Happy gleaning, my friend.

Parent - By BHGP (**) Date 2019-06-01 07:27

thanks !
Parent - - By mattchess (**) Date 2019-06-01 16:39
Using LC0 to identify additional lines to seed IDEA and using stockfish as the IDEA engine is what many of us do.
Parent - - By Ghengis-Kann (***) Date 2019-06-03 18:03

I have used LC0 a bit for opening preparation and can share my experiences.

I use an engine in IA mode to find candidate moves and then send those moves into the IDEA queue to be re-analyzed to a greater depth and organized into an evaluated tree structure. Usually the same engine for both IA and IDEA.

I have been favoring Komodo MCTS lately, but LC0 would be my second choice.

Both of those engines use a form of Monte Carlo Tree Search, which is advantageous for an OTB player because the moves are easier to understand as they are more positionally based and less reliant on a tactical trick that's way off in the possible future.

Komodo MCTS is a very solid all around engine for this purpose, and LC0 is variably useful depending on the type of position.
It is self-trained and develops it's own opening theory to a substantial degree, which means it spends more time learning openings that it "likes" better.

As a general rule it is good in positional openings but bad in tactical ones. It was able to find a somewhat obscure idea in the Colle that I used to good effect in a tournament game; not a true novelty, but there were only 3 master level games with it in Hugebase, and it really looks like a solid plan to me.

Gambit openings like the Smith-Morra are beyond it's ability to see clearly. Maybe it's just a little too greedy for material.
Parent - - By BHGP (**) Date 2019-06-04 06:27
Hi Ghengis-Kann,

thanks for interesting details! Very similar to my ideas in the last weeks. Lc0 for IA (with a Nvidia RTX 2060) to get surprising positional candidate moves. In IDEA I was using Stockfish. Do you think I should use Lc0/Lco maybe this is problematic because of the tactical weakness of Lc0 or maybe because of technical restrictions (1 x RTX 2060 for IA and IDEA?). An alternative could be Lc0 and Komodo MCTS in IA and Komodo MCTS for IDEA especially with my hardware (RTX 2060 and Ryzen 1700x, 64 GB RAM).

Are you using Komodo 13? I am not finding a lot of information of Komodo 13. The results against othert top-engines are more than sobering. I am using Komodo 10 at the moment, but MCTS is only included in Komodo 12, 13.
Do you know anything about the upgrade policy of Komodo in the past? Nearly double of the price for 1 year with updates is a lot..
Parent - - By Ghengis-Kann (***) Date 2019-06-04 16:12
I eventually bit the bullet and paid them for the year's subscription since I kept buying all the new versions anyway.

I have been using pure Komodo MCTS because I want it to explain the ideas to me by having the same engine flesh out the tree to show it's opinion of various candidate moves, but Using LC0 in IA mode to find positional ideas and checking them with Stockfish in IDEA is certainly a sensible approach and possibly the best combination currently available.

It seems a little sleazy, but I must confess that one of the reasons I stopped using LC0 is that my 2080Ti card is bringing in a steady income from cryptocurrency mining.
Parent - - By cma6 (****) Date 2019-06-09 02:25
Ghengis, so a $1100 cost for the 2080Ti card can be justified based on crypto mining at current BC value ($7942)?
Parent - - By Ghengis-Kann (***) Date 2019-06-10 17:46
I pay $0.06/Kilowatt-Hour for electricity and am currently mining Ravencoin.
With those parameters and current market conditions one 2080Ti card brings in about $1.25/ day in profit after subtracting $0.29 in electricity cost.

That's pre-tax income though, and the tax situation makes things complicated because the IRS decided cryptocurrency is not currency at all, but rather a commodity that is subject to capital gains tax. I get to write off the electricity cost and equipment depreciation, but also have to pay a 15% self-employment tax to cover medicare and social security.

Taking all that into account the return on investment is probably close to 3 years.
Parent - - By cma6 (****) Date 2019-06-11 01:31 Edited 2019-06-11 01:37
Thanks, Ghengis:
Your analysis is greatly appreciated. It seems that the economics of crypto-mining is highly dependent on cost of electricity. So in your case the project is just marginally worth it, assuming you have the process--including selling your coins--quite automated. However, a huge worldwide industry doing this implies that for some, there is a higher return on capital.
  BTW, how did you decide on Ravencoin to mine?
Parent - - By Ghengis-Kann (***) Date 2019-06-11 16:21
30%+ annual return on investment seems a little better than marginal to me.

As to selling the coins; Newegg accepts bitcoin as payment, so I will likely just convert the coins into more computer hardware, but you can get a Visa debit card from a company called Bitpay that you load with Bitcoins and buy from anywhere that accepts Visa. There is also a bank called Coinbase that will exchange for dollars or other "real" money.

The choice of coin to mine depends on the specifics of your hardware.
Ravencoin is profitable for Nvidia cards right now, along with a few others.
You can check out and input your hardware and electricity costs to get an idea of what's out there and what you can make off of it.

I mine directly to an exchange called TradeOgre, where the Raven is converted to actual Bitcoin or other coins that I think are worth investing in (like Litecoin, which has gone from $32 at the end of last year to $129 right now).

This really isn't the right forum to be discussing this though, and I apologize for diverting the thread from it's original topic.
If you want to get started in cryptocurrency mining then head over to and click on the Discord link at the bottom.
There are good people there who will help you out and I am on there as Discordant Opposition.
Parent - By cma6 (****) Date 2019-06-13 19:29
Greatly appreciated. I am waiting for the new AMD GPUs any day now and then will decide on whic GPU to buy; so that I can devote my life to cryptomining, or at least part of my remaining life :)
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / Lc0, Aquarium and Openings

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