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Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Computer Chess / Booted at 5Ghz
- - By The Wizard (***) Date 2019-04-06 15:14
Hi, With the new Omega motherboard and leaving certain voltages set on AUTO for the mobo to decide I managed to get the i7980XE to boot at 5Ghz on my water cooling setup something I could not do with the previous board. Don`t get me wrong it is not stable enough for a chess engine running flat out but I managed to validate easy enough.
       The board decided itself to put 1.4V into the CPU :eek::evil::twisted: but to my surprise it only reached 80C  .... It seems I might better overclocks if I drop the CPU cache speed down a lot. TBH though I doubt I will ever get it chess engine stable at 5Ghz even when I cool it sub zero but never say never

I changed my main drive to a Samsung 970 EVO PLUS and have all my chess stuff now on the Samsung 960 PRO ... I still have an old PCi OCZ Revo 3x2 and a OCZ Vertex SSD connected for backups etc

https://valid.x86.fr/8z3wlf
Parent - - By Labyrinth (*****) Date 2019-04-07 02:14
Are you trying to reach 90 mN/sec? :-)
Parent - - By The Wizard (***) Date 2019-04-09 23:42
Hi Labyrinth, That is my intention and I suspect it is not all about CPU Mhz .... A fresh install of windows and basic drivers I think would crack it. Maybe running the benchmark in safe mode might do it?

Regards
Parent - By Labyrinth (*****) Date 2019-04-10 08:20
You could try setting the priority of the engine exe higher, see if that helps. In my experience 'high' and 'realtime' tend to cause massive system instability though. I think the last time I tried realtime on a program I got a bluescreen in about 5 seconds.
Parent - - By Peter Grayson (****) Date 2019-04-08 10:10 Upvotes 1
It would be interesting to measure in reality how much faster a chess engine is in solving a position for each increment of CPU speed for example each 0.2 GHz and if possible to also measure wattage although I would start with comparing the stock speed to peak speed you intend to run. Core-Temp does indicate power on my i7-8700 and dual Xeon machines that seems to accurately reflect the CPU power consumption.

By running a single position solving test say 100 times and averaging the time to solve would indicate the engine's degree of variability when run with more than one thread together with average solving time. It may highlight the value of overclocking could be lost to a certain degree when there is no certainty the engine would find the correct move much faster for any given run. kN/s as a measure can look impressive but does not truly reflect an engine's performance.

Peter
Parent - - By The Wizard (***) Date 2019-04-10 00:02
Hi Peter, I use HWiNFO from https://www.hwinfo.com/ but run the 64bit portable version over at https://www.fosshub.com/HWiNFO.html

I will try to find a few positions and run the tests you ask ..... ATM I am try to see what is the lowest CPU voltage I can run an overclock at. With hyperthreading on CPU temps are approx 8c higher with 1.25V .... Ambient temps are not friendly and will only get worse as the summer approaches

Regards
Parent - - By Peter Grayson (****) Date 2019-04-10 16:43

> Ambient temps are not friendly and will only get worse as the summer approaches


That was the issue I found running a dual Xeon machine in a thermally efficient house! Windows open - heat out - bugs in! Late last year I settled on a 65 watt i7-8700 when flat out its heat contribution seems minimal but of course the time to solve is down but not using it for any competitive chess so no problem. Just 65 watts versus 300 watts per hour of the dual Xeon for the CPUs when the economics of it for 24 hour running doesn't make sense. Time is the issue but it does come at a cost.

I've attached my file on the measurements and the database with the position x100 I used with Stockfish 9 run in Chessbase GUI 14 64 bit. Syzygy bases need to be disabled and I used just 1 Gb hash because was more interested in the relative CPU performance. It was very enlightening!

Thanks for the links. I'll have a closer look at that software. Looks interesting.

Peter
Attachment: ReidP2SF9HTTest.zip - The files (35k)
Parent - - By The Wizard (***) Date 2019-04-11 06:08
Hi Peter, I ran a quick test of the first 25 positions basically to make sure I got it right ..... Watching the engine got me a bit confused seeing just how different HT on or off can be and not always in the direction I would have expected ... I will get around to doing it at different speeds as I need to turn TURBO off so that 26x100 is really 2.6Ghz .....  Also unless you force it to (as I do) instead of all cores running the same speed and voltage it can set core speeds and voltages differently  ... There is also more options in the BIOS that can be altered and may make a difference

Regards
Parent - - By Peter Grayson (****) Date 2019-04-11 09:52
Thanks Tony?(not sure how good my memory is!)

I suspect the results reflect what I found. The 29% kN/s gain obtained on the dual Xeon machine looked about right for the 30% potential gain of HT-on to HT-off but for chess engines the important measurement is time to solve that on my machines, including the older quads, does not reflect the kN/s difference but instead a much narrower difference, 8.6% for the dual Xeon, confirming the time gain is not reflective of the kN/s difference that tends to flatter to deceive.

The inherent multi-thread variability of the engine is the culprit of the solve time variations and the averaged narrower speed by time measurement differential reflects the overhead cost of hyper-threading. The multi-thread variability is why the test must be run so many times when the more runs gives a more accurate measure of the dfference.

It will be interesting though to see the final results achieved with CPU performance optimised.

Peter
Parent - - By The Wizard (***) Date 2019-05-08 21:31
Hi Peter, I must admit to have become a bit OCD with this test set as nothing is even close to consistent except when I run only 1 core which I suppose is to be expected with time taken to solve each position is within 1 second and ply depth basically identical but at least all problems were solved so of course on to running 2 cores which solved the first position in half the time and then started failing positions after that. I wont go through all the wasted hours lmfao but tonight I thought I would give Deep Fritz 13 a try just to get a time to solve each position with no HT just to compare it with these 3000+ modern engines .....

Regards
Tony
Parent - - By The Wizard (***) Date 2019-05-08 21:57
Hi, Just goes to show how much I know I tried to up the threads on Deep Fritz 13 and it turns out 16 is with HT so in reality it is only a 8 core engine (I think) ... I re ran the Deep Fritz 13 test with only 8 cores and still at 3Ghz

Regards
Parent - By Peter Grayson (****) Date 2019-05-09 17:35
Hi Tony,

Thanks for tests updates. The only engine I have that gives a consistent score with multithreads is Deep Junior 10 but that was because it did not use all of the threads all of the time. All other engines can give quite a wide band of solving time when in multithread mode dependant on the position and the amount of hash allocated.

Single thread mode should be deterministic and therefore should give very close solving times each run when small variations will be down to background tasks. It also gives the reference timing to measure the speed gain when additional threads are used. However, once more than one thread is used the engine becomes non-deterministic and solving times will vary, sometimes quite wildly that is why many runs have to be carried out and sufficient time overhead to ensure a solve failure is not recorded.

In the last two tests shown, DF13 recorded just 5% speed gain for 16 to 8 threads based on the 25 results shown. That may be as good as it gets for Fritz. For Stockfish 9 I measured an 8.62% speed gain going from 16 cores to 32 threads as opposed to the 29.14% kN/s speed increase confirming kN/s is an incorrect measure.

Best regards,
Peter
Parent - - By Vegan (****) Date 2019-05-31 03:52
My R5 2400G https://valid.x86.fr/iucb8s

not as powerful but a lot less expensive
Parent - - By The Wizard (***) Date 2019-05-31 22:02
Hi Vegan, Cannot argue with you on that point. I had my old sandy bridge 6 core about 6 years https://valid.x86.fr/22qlrg and although built higher spec and faster machines for people including Paul (NATIONAL12) on this forum I myself always bypass a few so called new CPU offerings we get offered every year or so but try to squeeze as much performance as I can from the CPU I have. I know many who upgrade almost every year and although I bit the bullet so to speak and went for the 7980 I look upon it that I saved up for 6 years lol :grin:   ...... The thing is after 6 months your almost certainly to start to fall behind with the latest and greatest offerings and from what I have read the new AMD 16 core at 4.2Ghz is as fast as my 18 core running at 4.8Ghz ... What the cost of the AMD CPU is I have no idea or if they will bring out the 32 core .....

I did hear that Intels 10nm processors are better than AMDs 7nm but Intel `bless em` are having lots of problems but it could all be fake news ....

One of the main reasons I went for my latest setup is that I heard some time ago that the top end X570 motherboards were going to cost around $1000 but they do come with PCi 4 ...... I do have a soft spot for AMD and one of my first computer builds I remember sub zeroing it with a vapochill unit and having fun in the chessbase engine room :grin: ahhhh those were the days when we all had single core machines etc

Regards
Parent - - By The Wizard (***) Date 2019-06-03 01:55
Hi Master Om, Yep these AMD chips are looking good. The all core overclocking ability is still sketchy and for me personally I am waiting to see the cost of the 16 core version at least

Regards
Parent - By The Wizard (***) Date 2019-06-06 00:35
Hi Master Om, Yes those are the CPUs I was on about and from what I have been listening to we have to wait to nearer the release day for clock speeds and OC speeds be it on all cores (or single core) but it is the price that will be interesting because if it out performs say the 7980XE and costs $500 then that is a massive kick in the gonads for Intel although Intel are mainly concerned with servers and laptops and it may be 2021 before they strike back on the desktop front but that is only what I have read and listened to on various youtube channels and could easily be FAKE news :grin:

Regards
Parent - - By The Wizard (***) Date 2019-06-06 00:55
Hi, We can only wait and see how they perform and of course what will they cost as well as the cost of MB etc .... I was looking at Intels 28 core https://bit.ly/2KDa9lp and a motherboard to stick it in https://bit.ly/2WneQ9Q  ... which totals over 4K in English ££££ pounds and although if I put it through our business I can get 20% off which is the VAT in the UK, getting it past the Mrs is another story ..... Whether AMD want to stick it to Intel by selling it to us peasants :twisted: at a Intel 28 core price or better we will have to wait and see but I will not be holding my breath but it will be a MONSTER

Regards
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2019-06-06 16:05
AMD's shares have already gone up after Ryzen out in market. Intel has serious issues mow.
Parent - - By The Wizard (***) Date 2019-06-12 20:30
Hi Master Om, It would be nice to see AMD kick Intel in the gonads especially if the price is right to entice and persuade lets say the DESKTOP boys to switch. AMD has not had this chance since the early 2000s which was the last time clock speed for clock speed they out performed Intel and if I remember correctly in the Playchess engine room there was more AMD rigs than Intel, I suspect that ATM that is far from the case.

Intels main money maker is the server market in which maybe they have a 90% share and then the laptop market and they have between approx 75-80% of the market. These days the desktop supporters come 3rd in Intels thoughts. To get the big companies to switch to AMD which will cost a lot of money will be a difficult task but lets wish them luck even if it is only because a competitive market usually means better prices for us the public.

The evil empire Intel have vastly deeper pockets than AMD and although it maybe 2021 before they strike back we know they will so fingers crossed AMD can keep up with Intel in the future this time as new CPUs are brought out unlike sadly before getting left behind

Regards
Parent - By Labyrinth (*****) Date 2019-06-12 23:09

>It would be nice to see AMD kick Intel in the gonads


They certainly have, and continue to do so!

Although it seems Intel fanboyish, my personal hypothesis is that right now Intel is investing heavily in getting away from the sinking ship of silicon while AMD is not, so AMD is able to surge ahead for the time being, but they won't be first to make it to the new post-silicon world.
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2019-06-13 03:17
It would be nice to see AMD kick Intel in the gonads

It seems from all the news they already have and its EPYC :yell:
Parent - By Vegan (****) Date 2019-06-01 17:23
My previous AM3 processor still works I simply retired it for the AM4 platform so I could install more RAM on the machine

have 24GB installed now and the max is 64GB. Realistically 24GB is plenty for Windows 10.
Parent - By Labyrinth (*****) Date 2019-06-01 17:58

>I did hear that Intels 10nm processors..but Intel are having lots of problems..


They resolved the issues but only have mobile SKUs at the moment :-/
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