Not logged inRybka Chess Community Forum
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Computer Chess / Fritz 16 by Vas Rajlich coming
1 2 Previous Next  
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) [gb] Date 2017-09-24 15:02
Yes! I heard it was going to be Nov 1st originally but they've pushed it back. I think this might imply that Houdini 6 is stronger than Fritz 16 (Rybka 6) and therefore they will sell Houdini 6 early Nov and Fritz 16 late Nov. Fritz 16 presumably will have the latest interface while Houdini will use the Fritz 15 GUI.

Speculation, but it makes sense to me.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2017-11-09 22:51
"but they've pushed it back"
Vas'  trademark :-)
Parent - By Geomusic (*****) Date 2017-11-10 00:59 Upvotes 1
soon or sooooooooooon?
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) [gb] Date 2017-11-11 22:11 Upvotes 1

> "but they've pushed it back"
> Vas'  trademark :-)


Two ways to tell a Vas Rajlich engine:

i) It's late
ii) It won't do bishop underpromotions

But I'm still looking forward to it :grin:
Parent - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-12 16:47

> But I'm still looking forward to it


Why of course! Undoubtedly this will be the long awaited Rybka 5- up to  spec's,  and cloaked under the Fritz 16 handle " Rybka 5 PrO. X 64-bit"! :wink: 

We have all been looking forward to that one for, how long now? :roll:

But then again-Carl!

Parent - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-09-24 17:49
After Fritz 15 which currently is 13-14 on the rating list in comp with Critter 1.6a 64-bit 4CPU. I cannot buy into anymore of the Fritz hype. Vas Rajlich may have held a position in chess engine programming that almost insured we'd be getting one of the top competitive engines. Not since Rybka 4, seven years ago.
- By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-10 04:58 Edited 2017-11-10 05:02
The question is posed! Will Fritz 16 rise to the occasion and...go"head to head with Equinox"

Or, perhaps truly, this is The NEXT GENERATION OF ...SOMETHING ELSE!

A NEW GENERATION?!



NAW!:lol:
- - By rocket (***) [se] Date 2017-11-11 13:39
Any prediction about elo improvement?
Parent - By QueensideCastler (**) [no] Date 2017-11-12 18:01 Edited 2017-11-12 18:06
30-50 elo :smile:
Parent - - By Labyrinth (*****) [us] Date 2017-11-12 23:26
I think +100 Elo is the most likely scenario.. unfortunately. Wish it would be like +300, but that just isn't realistic.
Parent - - By rocket (***) [se] Date 2017-11-13 14:56
That's still a bold prediction.Fritz 15 was not even 40 elo stronger than R4
Parent - By Labyrinth (*****) [us] Date 2017-11-13 15:24
It was +100 Elo on Fritz 14, which I'm pretty sure was the intended target.
Parent - By Carl Bicknell (*****) [gb] Date 2017-11-13 22:29

> That's still a bold prediction.Fritz 15 was not even 40 elo stronger than R4


I'm guessing Fritz 16 will be 50 elo stronger than Fritz 15. If it's more than that - I'm happy!
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) [gb] Date 2017-11-14 14:48
Early results are suggesting 25 elo improvement :sad:
Parent - - By David Evans (****) [gb] Date 2017-11-14 14:54
25 elo omg does that even register :eek:
Parent - By Carl Bicknell (*****) [gb] Date 2017-11-15 14:00
OK, now it looks like +35 elo is about right according to CEGT
Parent - - By rocket (***) [se] Date 2017-11-14 15:46
Against whom? If it's against its predeccesor it's likely even less than that....
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) [gb] Date 2017-11-14 17:53
OK, latest I've heard (Talkchess) is +60 elo. Not too bad, but not great.
However, CEGT results look a bit lower than that to me.
Parent - By rocket (***) [se] Date 2017-11-14 17:59
Speaking of CEGT. Why is there such a large discrepency between them and CCRl? On CCRL 40/4, there is a 19 elo difference between Fritz 15 and Rybka 4, while CEGT has it 55 elo difference!
- - By The Truth (**) [de] Date 2017-11-12 23:42
Also seen here: http://en.chessbase.com/post/fritz-16-your-companion-and-trainer
The packaging and the portal screen alone looks like it's a product for a kid with adhd. I can't believe they can even make a product more worse than it is. And they even added emoticons to show "Fritz’s mood", no thanks I'll just play chess with women.

And programmed by star programmer, rajlich who?? Hasn't made a top engine for a long time now. Might as well make crafty and robert hyatt their engine and author.
Parent - By Labyrinth (*****) [us] Date 2017-11-13 15:30

>And programmed by star programmer, rajlich who?? Hasn't made a top engine for a long time now. Might as well make crafty and robert hyatt their engine and author.


As far as chess engine programmers go Rajlich has done pretty well. Also Rajlich >> Hyatt :-)
Parent - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-14 00:41

> Might as well make crafty and robert hyatt their engine and author.


Wow! Let's put the brakes on that analogy! Vas hasn't done much of anything since his symbolic programming castration. But let's not put the guy pinned up along side Bobby Hyatt, King of all that is a " dog-in-the-manger" vain and follows the doctrine of nominalism as if it were a staple in his diet.
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2017-11-15 17:48
I guess the product designer played too much with lego figures :-)
However, I don't get your "I'll just play chess with women" remark.

Btw., your troll comment at the end is a nice try :-P
- - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-14 16:22 Edited 2017-11-14 16:28
Look at from this prospective! It is at least good to see Vas is still in the game! Hobbled, but in the game. I would rather have seen him come "right" back into the game 6 years ago ignoring the bullshit like, yes Robert Houdart and even if it meant Rybka became an outlaw chess engine and Rybka Outlier forum. The powers that be should have kicked Hyatt the hell out of here pronto. But they didn't. They let that blow hard run and rule for a long time. Right didn't matter. It was the way it was done that did matter. It was appalling. This Forum did not forgive and forget Vas his faults when it let Hyatt loose to pontificate.

Fritz has become for me more of a showcase -nothing more. I wish it could be taken seriously. 

Have a nice day all!

Addendum:
But go ahead decide on how much elo Fritz 16 will have gained over Fritz 15 -not that it will make any diff in the real world.
Parent - By Geomusic (*****) Date 2017-11-17 15:27
I haven't bought Fritz in like 5 years. I think I might buy it just for the cool 3D and 2D boards, analysis features and such. I can always add in Stockfish right?
- - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-16 08:56 Upvotes 1
The info coming down the pike Fritz 16 is at least equal in strength to Equinox 3.3 ! There you have it. Now you all can get a good nights sleep! :wink:

I wanted to come back and highlight that for you so you didn't miss it! :yell:
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) [gb] Date 2017-11-17 14:09
Latest results from Mr. Banks show a mere 8 elo improvement. Ouch.

http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/404/rating_list_all.html
Parent - - By Geomusic (*****) Date 2017-11-17 14:46
So basically a repackage?
Parent - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-17 15:28
No! I don't think this is a repackaging! :lol:
That's what makes this kind of hilarious!
Parent - - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-17 15:26
It looks like Vas threw in the towel. Perhaps he was contracted to put out another product on demand on a certain given time line and, well you know Vas! Pressure isn't his game. Perhaps this will be the end of the Fritz line- time will only tell.  Given this dismal turn out it should be.
Addendum:

With that said -  Vas can always  go solo! It doesn't spell the end of his chess engine programming career. He just might have  fulfilled his contract agreement in a grand spectacular "here is your "8 elo Fritz 16 update" see ya!
Parent - - By MarshallArts (***) [us] Date 2017-11-17 17:55
Maybe a private engine like Ginkgo will become the next, stronger Fritz. Stay tuned.

:wink:
Parent - - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-17 18:50
Ginkgo -is a Derivative of Frank Schneider's Anaconda  2.0.1  rated on CCRL at its peak   #143 elo  2555
Apparently Schneider started working on Ginkgo back in 2014.
Parent - - By MarshallArts (***) [us] Date 2017-11-18 01:38
A derivative of his own work, hmm? :confused:

:fat:
Parent - - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-18 01:46 Edited 2017-11-18 01:50
So it would seem -
I don't see any issues coming out of that -Frank Schneider has had a great deal of programming history with Anaconda
Ginkgo,
an UCI compliant private chess engine written by Frank Schneider in C++, the development started in fall 2014 after further improvements of Frank's earlier 0x88 engine Anaconda


Actually the article goes on to say:

Ginkgo was written from scratch using bitboards as primary board representation, in particular fancy magic bitboards to determine sliding piece attacks. The parallel multi-threaded search performs PVS alpha-beta with a shared transposition table inside an iterative deepening framework with aspiration windows, null move pruning, late move reductions, and various extensions, but no singular. The automatically tuned evaluation features material, mobility, pawn structure and king safety.
Parent - - By MarshallArts (***) [us] Date 2017-11-18 01:49
:grin::lol:
Parent - - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-18 01:53
Perhaps it isn't a derivative after all? He says it was from scratch! :lol: Well, I'm scratching my head! :yell:
Parent - - By MarshallArts (***) [us] Date 2017-11-20 00:08

> Perhaps it isn't a derivative after all? He says it was from scratch! :lol: Well, I'm scratching my head! :yell:


For a moment I thought you were referring to Fritz 16. :razz:
Could F16 be called a derivative of Rybka? I'd say it is Rybka (v4.x).

:slim:
Parent - - By rocket (***) [se] Date 2017-11-20 00:23
Haven't checked version Fritz 16 but Fritz 15 was basically a Rybka 4 clean up, although I did find a position in which the material value appeared to be changed. But that could also simply be the newer engine seeing deeper in that particular position.
Parent - - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-20 06:08 Edited 2017-11-20 06:11
No! I think that was Fritz utilizing a Rybka parameter software programming format. I think Vas is keeping Rybka's source code under raps. I'd also venture that perhaps that may be half the problem Vas is facing in programming Fritz?!

Of course I'm guessing! Nothing more, nothing less. I maybe way off the mark.

What the hell do I know -I'm not a programmer! :grin:
Parent - By rocket (***) [se] Date 2017-11-20 13:17
Haha, no, it's rybka alright.  I only needed to run through one game. The problem is that it's a negligable uppgrade. But some improvements were made.
Parent - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-18 02:17
Ginkgo! Good for cognitive impairment, hypertension, Tinnitus, Peripheral artery disease, ( I like this one the best!) Altitude sickness!

I think  Frank Schneider takes heavy supplements of ginkgo biloba.

Until the headaches, Nausea, vomiting stomach gas, and/or more serious side effects of use set in,  with seizures, unusual bleeding, bruising; and, allergic reactions,  like skin rash, itching or hives, swelling of the face, lips, or tongue!

Until then, its Ginkgo chess engine for healthy competition.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2017-11-17 19:11
It's very possible that Vas has lost the bubble. He always said that it was normal for people to stay on top for about five years before the world passed them by, and didn't discount the possibility that it would happen to him someday. The Anti-Vassers might have just made it happen a little sooner...
Parent - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-17 19:58
I don't know? I think it had to do with his retraining the old Rybka form in parameters. It might have been mentally self defeating. Fritz was not Rybka - either Vas carried on with Rybka or did something different with Fritz!
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2017-11-18 06:10
Latest results from Mr. Banks show a mere 8 elo improvement. Ouch.

That's really disappointing :sad:
Parent - - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-23 19:36 Edited 2017-11-23 19:40
That isn't a reflection on Vas, it is a reflection on Chessbase. Vas absolutely knew what he was putting out there. No doubt. My guess is that he was under contract to produce a product and told them he wasn't ready. They pressured him and he said, "Ok"!

Essentially they didn't test their own product before release. I wouldn't be surprised if they now dropped the Fritz product line. Or released Vas from his contract agreement.
Parent - - By rocket (***) [se] Date 2017-11-27 12:39

>That isn't a reflection on Vas, it is a reflection on Chessbase. Vas absolutely knew what he was putting out there. No doubt. My guess is that he was under contract to produce a product and told them he wasn't ready. They pressured him and he said, "Ok"! <


He had over a year...Common now.
Parent - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2017-11-27 14:10

> He had over a year...Common now.Ch


Absolutely! It is kind of obvious he didn't give a crap!

For all it is worth,  remember this: Fabien Letouzey left  off  with Fruit 2.3.1 at elo -2784 - Rybka 2.2 32-bit
reached not long after -2886. So we aren't talking about someone who cannot program. So much for Hyatt and Friends for his cloner ideas. At this point, Letouzey has definitely a long time ago ran out of ideas, perhaps the same has now happened to Rajlich. Or maybe something management wise is up!

Who knows why he turned out such a dismal program. Personally I would never buy anything Chessbase-anymore. I'm happy using  Aquarium and/or Shredder!  But Chessbase should never have released that program! Would you buy Fritz16?!
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2017-11-29 07:50
I don't think you were there at the beginning in 2005. Believe it or not, Vas was putting out new builds more than once a day! :lol::yell:
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2017-11-29 07:55
These were the golden times when people said "1.2n is much better than 1.2f, no wait, 1.2h is even stronger" :-D
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Computer Chess / Fritz 16 by Vas Rajlich coming
1 2 Previous Next  

Powered by mwForum 2.27.4 © 1999-2012 Markus Wichitill