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Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-30 15:59
I 100% Agree.
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) [us] Date 2017-09-20 13:32
Actually black can draw. But engines still lack the understandiing of the position from black side. So Its a risk.
I have lost 4 games within few months and going to lose two more playing KID from black.
Still am playing it since i have won many games too. Playing black side is tough for black since engines are less help. U see sudden high or low.
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2017-09-24 07:09
I agree. The King's Indian is a great weapon for black, especially when you are playing against someone who only plays computer moves in correspondence chess.

Engines are giving very high evals in many lines (f.e. in the Gligoric +0.7 through +1.0, which is completely wrong), and you can take advantage of these high evals and their lack of understanding how to play these positions.

IMO the King's Indian is also much more interesting compared to all those 'brave' Slavs, Queen's Gambits, Nimzo's and Queen's Indians :-).
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-24 13:51
The Bayonet Attack is an exception. Most engines understand the nuisances in that Game. But not in the other variations.
Bayonet Attack is favored by Kramnik for a reason.
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) [us] Date 2017-09-20 16:30
1r3rk1/1n1bqpb1/p2p1np1/1ppPp2p/2P1P3/1P1BBP1P/P2Q2P1/3NRRNK w - - 0 20


can u tell what white should play after black has played b5 ?
Parent - - By Hamster (**) [ch] Date 2017-09-20 17:07
The engines love Nf2, the only game I found in the database continued f4.
Bet you analyzed it deeply, what is the story?
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-20 17:09
That is my game which i lost after playing b5 lol. :yell::yell::yell::yell::yell:

None of the engines found f4 even after running IA for long time. Give it a try. Komodo sucks big time in KID.
Parent - - By Hurnavich (Bronze) Date 2017-09-20 17:26 Edited 2017-09-20 17:34
1r3rk1/1n1bqpb1/p2p1np1/1ppPp2p/2P1P3/1P1BBP1P/P2Q2P1/3NRRNK w - - 0 1


Analysis by Houdini 6 x64:

20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 Qd8 23.Kh2 Qa5 24.Qc2 Qd8 25.Nf2 g5 26.Ng4 Nf4 27.Bd2 b4 28.Bc1 Nh5 29.Qd2 Nf4 30.Bb2 f6 31.Nxf4 exf4 32.Qf2 Be8 33.Be2
+/-  (1.21)    Depth: 27/55   00:05:39  3172MN, tb=39
(Hurnavich,  20.09.2017)
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-20 17:27
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[FEN "1r3rk1/1n1bqpb1/p2p1np1/1ppPp2p/2P1P3/1P1BBP1P/P2Q2P1/3NRRNK w - - 0 20"]
[SetUp "1"]

{[IDeA: Correspondence book]} 20. f4 (20. Nf2 {(0:02:43) 1382853kN}
{+1.04|d27|TB:2}{(0:01:41) 901548kN}{+1.23|d25}{(0:00:45) 420457kN}{+1.21|d23}
{(0:00:30) 277686kN}{+1.06|d23} 20... Ra8 {(0:02:48) 1421141kN}{+0.92|d27|TB:3}
{(0:02:40) 1360531kN}{+0.96|d27|TB:2}{(0:02:38) 1341694kN}{+1.06|d27|TB:2}
{(0:02:33) 1310036kN}{+1.13|d27|TB:2} (20... Be8 21. f4 exf4 22. Bxf4 Nd7 23.
cxb5 axb5 24. Bxb5 Ne5 25. Be2 Ra8 26. Nd3 Nd7 27. Bd1 (27. Bf3 f6 28. Be3 Nd8
29. Nf4 Ne5 30. Be2 Nd7 31. Bf2 Ne5 32. Nf3 g5 {(0:01:10) 654381kN}{+1.23|d24}
{20.})27... Ne5 28. Nxe5 dxe5 29. Bg5 f6 30. Be3 f5 31. exf5 Rxf5 32. Rxf5
gxf5 33. Nf3 e4 34. Ng5 {(0:01:47) 953772kN}{+1.20|d25} 34... Be5 35. Ne6 Qh4
36. Rf1 {(0:01:54) 1004970kN}{+1.20|d26}{20.}) (20... Rbc8 {(0:01:42) 907751kN}
{+1.16|d25}{(0:01:31) 820560kN}{20.})(20... Nh7 {(0:00:51) 479127kN}{+1.09|d23}
{20.})21. f4 Ng4 22. Nxg4 exf4 23. Nf6+ Qxf6 24. Bxf4 Qc3 25. Qe2 Qb4 26. Nf3
Rae8 27. e5 dxe5 28. Nxe5 Qc3 29. Qc2 Qxc2 30. Bxc2 Bxe5 31. Bxe5 bxc4 32.
bxc4 Na5 33. Bd6 Nxc4 {(0:01:03) 594199kN}{+1.18|d24} 34. Bxf8 {(0:00:59)
558395kN}{+1.11|d23}{20.}) 20... h4 21. f5 Nh5 22. Ne2 b4 23. Nf2 f6 24. Ng4
g5 25. a3 a5 26. Ra1 Nf4 27. axb4 cxb4 28. Bb6 Nxd3 29. Qxd3 Ra8 30. Qd2 Rfc8
31. g3 hxg3 32. Nxg3 Qf7 33. Rfb1 {(0:05:24) 2771293kN}{+1.03|d28|TB:40}
{+1.03|d28|324s|TB:40}{20.} 33... Z0 {20.} (33... Ra6 {(0:04:58) 2542869kN}
{+1.14|d28|TB:39} 34. Be3 {(0:04:48) 2463874kN}{+1.21|d28|TB:38} 34... Nc5
{(0:04:28) 2303701kN}{+1.28|d27|TB:28}{20.}) *
Parent - - By Hamster (**) [ch] Date 2017-09-20 17:32
You mean 20.f4 is the only winning move and therefore 20.Nf2 draws?
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) [us] Date 2017-09-20 17:35
f4 is the best move which wins instantly.
Parent - - By Eelco de Groot (***) Date 2017-09-23 12:10

> f4 is the best move which wins instantly.


Stockfish thinks 3...b4 (22...b4 in the game/pgn) is by score slightly inferior, although it might not matter (everything losing) and the scores are not stable. Qd8 from Hurnavich's H6 looks about equal to b4 at least now. Qd8 score also went up and down. Stockfish's best move at depth 36 only came up after an hour, before that invisible! Kh7 Kg1 looks a bit like a mutual Zugzwang. After that still b4 but the latest line
43  436:55   +1.47   22...Kh7 23. Rf3 Rh8 24. Ref1 Bf6 25. Nf2 g5 26. Ng4 Rbg8 27. a3 Nf4 28. Bc2 Kg7 29. R3f2 Rb8 30. Qc3 Qd8 31. Ng1 Rh7 32. Rb1 Rc8 33. Rd1 Qa5 34. Qb2 Qd8 35. Bd2 Rb8 (241.220.959.432) 9201

20. f4 h4 21. f5 Nh5 22. Ne2:

1r3rk1/1n1bqpb1/p2p2p1/1ppPpP1n/2P1P2p/1P1BB2P/P2QN1P1/3NRR1K b - -


Engine: Stockfish_20170922_009 HT (4+3 threads, i7 6700,512 MB)
by T. Romstad, M. Costalba, J. Kiiski, G. Linscott

36     59:35  +1.34    3...Kh7 4.Kg1 Rh8 5.Rf3 Rhg8 6.Nf2 Bf6
                       7.Ng4 g5 8.Rb1 b4 9.a3 Nf4 10.Ra1 a5
                       11.Bc2 Ra8 12.a4 Rab8 13.Raf1 Qd8
                       14.Qe1 Re8 15.Kh1 Kg8 16.g3 hxg3 (32.203.105.408) 9007

36     59:35  +1.41    3...Ra8 4.Bg5 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Bxf8 Rxf8
                       7.Bc2 b4 8.Qd3 Bg5 9.Ne3 Kg7 10.Rf3 Bf4
                       11.Kg1 Bg5 12.Ref1 Re8 13.Qd1 a5
                       14.Qd2 a4 15.bxa4 Na5 16.Qd3 Nf6 (32.203.105.408) 9007

36     59:35  +1.48    3...Rbc8 4.Bg5 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Bxf8 Rxf8
                       7.Bc2 b4 8.Qd3 Bg5 9.Ne3 Kg7 10.Rf3 Re8
                       11.Rg1 Nf4 12.Nxf4 Bxf4 13.Ng4 Qg5
                       14.Nf2 Qh6 15.Rf1 a5 16.Qe2 gxf5 (32.203.105.408) 9007

36     59:35  +1.55    3...Qd8 4.Bg5 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Bxf8 Bg5
                       7.Qc2 Qxf8 8.Rf3 Qg7 9.Ref1 f6
                       10.Rg1 Kh8 11.Ne3 Bxe3 12.Rxe3 g5
                       13.a3 b4 14.Qd2 a5 15.Ra1 Kg8 16.Qe1 Nf4 (32.203.105.408) 9007

36     59:35  +1.60    3...bxc4 4.bxc4 Nd8 5.Rg1 Kh7 6.Nf2 Rh8
                       7.Rb1 Rxb1 8.Rxb1 f6 9.fxg6+ Kxg6
                       10.Nd1 Bh6 11.Bxh6 Rxh6 12.Ne3 Rh8
                       13.Qe1 Nf4 14.Nxf4+ exf4 15.Nf5 Bxf5
                       16.exf5+ Kf7 (32.203.105.408) 9007
_____________________________________________________

37     97:21  +1.35    3...bxc4 4.Bxc4 Ra8 5.Bg5 Bf6 6.Bh6 Rfe8
                       7.Nf2 Kh8 8.Ng4 gxf5 9.exf5 Rg8
                       10.Be3 a5 11.a4 Rg7 12.Bh6 Rgg8
                       13.Qe3 Bg5 14.Qf2 Ng3+ 15.Nxg3 hxg3
                       16.Qe2 f6 (52.620.650.940) 9008

37     97:21  +1.40    3...Kh7 4.Kg1 b4 5.Rf3 Bf6 6.Nf2 Rg8
                       7.Ng4 g5 8.a3 a5 9.a4 Nf4 10.Bb1 Kh8
                       11.Ref1 Qd8 12.Bd3 Bg7 13.Kh1 Bf6
                       14.Bc2 Kh7 15.Qe1 Re8 16.Bc1 Bg7 (52.620.650.940) 9008

37     97:21  +1.40    3...Ra8 4.Bg5 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Bxf8 Rxf8
                       7.Bc2 Kg7 8.Ne3 Bg5 9.Qd3 b4 10.Rf3 Re8
                       11.Ref1 Nd8 12.Kg1 Nb7 13.Qd1 a5
                       14.Qe1 Bxe3+ 15.Rxe3 Qg5 16.f6+ Kg8 (52.620.650.940) 9008

37     97:21  +1.50    3...Rbc8 4.Rf2 Rfe8 5.Ref1 Bf6
                       6.fxg6 fxg6 7.Bh6 Rf8 8.Bxf8 Rxf8
                       9.a3 Rb8 10.Rf3 Bg5 11.Qc3 Bf4
                       12.Nxf4 Nxf4 13.Rxf4 exf4 14.Rxf4 Rf8
                       15.Rxf8+ Qxf8 16.e5 dxe5 (52.620.650.940) 9008

37     97:21  +1.55    3...b4 4.Rf3 gxf5 5.exf5 e4 6.Bxe4 Qxe4
                       7.Nf2 Qe5 8.Nd3 Qe7 9.Bg5 f6 10.Bxh4 Qf7
                       11.g4 Rbe8 12.gxh5 Qxh5 13.Qf4 Bh6
                       14.Rg1+ Kh7 15.Ng3 Qf7 16.Qg4 Rg8 (52.620.650.940) 9008
.
.
.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
39  192:32   +1.30   3...Kh7 4.Kg1 Rh8 5.Rf3 Bf6 6.Nf2 g5 7.Ng4 Nf4 8.Bc2 Qd8 9.Qc3 Nh5 10.Rb1 Rg8 11.Qe1 Qf8 12.Rf1 Bd8 13.Nc1 f6 14.Ne2 Bb6 15.a3 Na5 16.Bd3 Bd8 (104.807.828.462) 9072
39  192:32   +1.35   3...Ra8 4.Bg5 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Bxf8 Rxf8 7.Bc2 Bg5 8.Qd3 Kg7 9.Ne3 b4 10.Rf3 Bf4 11.Kg1 Bg5 12.Rb1 Re8 13.Rbf1 Kg8 14.Kh1 a5 15.a4 bxa3 16.Ra1 Ng7 (104.807.828.462) 9072
39  192:32   +1.47   3...bxc4 4.Bxc4 a5 5.Nf2 f6 6.Ng4 g5 7.a4 Nf4 8.Qc3 Ra8 9.Kg1 Rfc8 10.Bd2 Rf8 11.Qb2 Be8 12.Nc3 Bh5 13.Qc2 Nd8 14.Be3 Nf7 15.Nh2 Rab8 16.Nf3 Rb7 (104.807.828.462) 9072
39  192:32   +1.50   3...Rbc8 4.Rf2 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Bxf8 Rxf8 7.Ne3 Bg5 8.Ref1 Qf6 9.Ng4 Bxd2 10.Nxf6+ Nxf6 11.fxg6+ Kxg6 12.Rxf6+ Kg7 13.g4 b4 14.Kg2 a5 15.Bc2 Bg5 16.R6f2 f6 (104.807.828.462) 9072
39  192:32   +1.74   3...b4 4.Rf3 Kh7 5.Nf2 Rh8 6.Rf1 Rbg8 7.f6 Bxf6 8.Ng4 Bg7 9.Rxf7 Qe8 10.Bg5 Rf8 11.Rxg7+ Nxg7 12.Nf6+ Rxf6 13.Bxf6 Rf8 14.Qe1 Kg8 15.Bxh4 Nh5 16.Bg5 Rxf1+ (104.807.828.462) 9072
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
40  258:38   +1.48   3...Ra8 4.Bg5 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Bxf8 Rxf8 7.Bc2 Bg5 8.Qd3 Rg8 9.Ne3 Na5 10.Rb1 Rb8 11.Ng4 Kg8 12.Qc3 Nb7 13.a3 Re8 14.Qf3 gxf5 15.Nxe5 Qxe5 16.Qxh5 Bf6 (141.534.672.390) 9120
40  258:38   +1.55   3...Kh7 4.Rf3 Rh8 5.Nf2 Rbg8 6.Kg1 Bf6 7.Ng4 g5 8.a3 Nf4 9.Rf2 Ra8 10.Bc2 Qd8 11.Qc3 Kg7 12.Kh1 Rc8 13.Rb1 Rh7 14.Ng1 Qa5 15.Qa1 Qd8 16.Rbf1 Nh5 (141.534.672.390) 9120
40  258:38   +1.61   3...bxc4 4.bxc4 Nd8 5.Rg1 gxf5 6.exf5 e4 7.g4 exd3 8.Nec3 Ng3+ 9.Rxg3 hxg3 10.Bg5 Qxe1+ 11.Qxe1 Be5 12.Qe3 f6 13.Bh4 Nf7 14.Qxd3 Bd4 15.Bxg3 Ne5 16.Bxe5 Bxe5 (141.534.672.390) 9120
40  258:38   +1.70   3...Rbc8 4.Rf2 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Bxf8 Rxf8 7.Ne3 Bg5 8.Ref1 gxf5 9.Nxf5 Bxf5 10.exf5 Qf6 11.Qc2 b4 12.Rf3 Qh6 13.g4 hxg3 14.Nxg3 Nxg3+ 15.Rxg3 Bf4 16.Rgf3 Rg8 (141.534.672.390) 9120
40  258:38   +1.84   3...Rbd8 4.Bg5 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh8 6.Bxf8 Qxf8 7.Nf2 Qg7 8.Qe3 Rf8 9.Rg1 Be7 10.Ref1 Na5 11.Ng4 Bd8 12.Kh2 Re8 13.Rf3 Rf8 14.fxg6 fxg6 15.Rxf8+ Qxf8 16.Rf1 Qg7 (141.534.672.390) 9120
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
41  330:28   +1.47   3...Ra8 4.Bg5 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Bxf8 Rxf8 7.Bc2 Bg5 8.Qd3 Kg7 9.Ne3 b4 10.Rf3 Re8 11.Rg1 Qd8 12.Rgf1 Qe7 13.Qd2 a5 14.Qd3 Bc8 15.Kg1 Bd7 16.R3f2 Kg8 (181.602.981.710) 9158
41  330:28   +1.55   3...Kh7 4.Rf3 Rh8 5.Nf2 Rbg8 6.Kg1 Bf6 7.Ng4 g5 8.a3 Nf4 9.Rf2 Kg7 10.Bc2 Rc8 11.Qc3 Qd8 12.Qb2 Nh5 13.Bd2 Kg8 14.Qc1 Nf4 15.Bc3 Bg7 16.Nxf4 gxf4 (181.602.981.710) 9158
41  330:28   +1.55   3...Rbc8 4.Rf2 Kh7 5.Rf3 Rh8 6.Nf2 Rcg8 7.a3 g5 8.Bxg5 Bf6 9.Be3 Bg5 10.Ng4 Bxe3 11.Rxe3 Nf6 12.Nh2 Rg7 13.Rf3 Qd8 14.Rb1 Nh5 15.Kg1 Rhg8 16.Ng4 Rxg4 (181.602.981.710) 9158
41  330:28   +1.64   3...bxc4 4.bxc4 Nd8 5.Rf3 gxf5 6.exf5 e4 7.Nf4 Ng3+ 8.Rxg3 hxg3 9.Nh5 Qh4 10.Nxg7 f6 11.Bxc5 exd3 12.Bxd6 Kxg7 13.Bxb8 Nf7 14.Qf4 d2 15.Re2 Qxf4 16.Bxf4 Rc8 (181.602.981.710) 9158
41  330:28   +1.66   3...f6 4.fxg6 Qe8 5.Rf3 Qxg6 6.Ref1 Kf7 7.Bg5 Rh8 8.Bxh4 Rbg8 9.Qe1 Ke8 10.cxb5 axb5 11.Qf2 Bh6 12.Bxf6 Nxf6 13.Rxf6 Qh5 14.Rf3 Rf8 15.Qe1 Rxf3 16.Rxf3 Rf8 (181.602.981.710) 9158
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
42  388:31   +1.48   3...Ra8 4.Bg5 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Bxf8 Rxf8 7.Bc2 Bg5 8.Qd3 Kg7 9.Ne3 b4 10.Rf3 Nd8 11.Rd1 Rh8 12.Rdf1 Re8 13.Qd1 Bxe3 14.Rxe3 Qg5 15.Qc1 f6 16.fxg6 Qxg6 (214.053.555.484) 9182
42  388:31   +1.51   3...Kh7 4.Rf3 Rh8 5.Ref1 Bf6 6.Nf2 g5 7.Ng4 Rbg8 8.a3 Nf4 9.Kh2 Kg7 10.Qc2 Rb8 11.Bd2 Kh7 12.Qc3 Nh5 13.R3f2 Rhg8 14.Bc2 Qd8 15.Kg1 Rh8 16.Qf3 Nf4 (214.053.555.484) 9182
42  388:31   +1.53   3...Rbc8 4.Rf2 Kh7 5.Rf3 Rh8 6.Ref1 Bf6 7.Nf2 g5 8.Ng4 Rcg8 9.a3 Nf4 10.Kh2 Kg7 11.Qc2 Rb8 12.Bd2 Kh7 13.Qc3 Nh5 14.R3f2 Qd8 15.Rb1 Rg8 16.Bc2 Be7 (214.053.555.484) 9182
42  388:31   +1.64   3...f6 4.fxg6 Qe8 5.Rf3 Qxg6 6.Ref1 Kf7 7.Bg5 Rh8 8.Bxh4 Rbg8 9.Qe1 Ke8 10.cxb5 axb5 11.Qf2 Qh7 12.Ndc3 Nf4 13.Nxf4 Qxh4 14.Ne6 Qxf2 15.R1xf2 b4 16.Na4 Nd8 (214.053.555.484) 9182
42  388:31   +1.84   3...b4 4.Rf3 a5 5.Nf2 a4 6.Rf1 Ra8 7.Ng4 f6 8.fxg6 Qe8 9.Nh6+ Bxh6 10.Bxh6 Qxg6 11.Rg1 Rf7 12.g4 hxg3 13.Rgxg3 Nxg3+ 14.Rxg3 Kh7 15.Rxg6 Kxg6 16.Kg2 Rh7 (214.053.555.484) 9182

Both 22...b4 and 22...Qd8 have dropped out of the top five
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-23 16:38 Upvotes 1
See my analysis window
Parent - - By Eelco de Groot (***) Date 2017-09-24 18:37
Thank you! It's interesting because it's so different :slim: I did see 22...Nd8 coming by for instance, and it took awhile to resolve it each time, so that move was probably better than first thought and it needed more nodes to refute it. It never made the Top 5 though although it looks natural.

This was my final tally, although it is still running, I will stop it now:

1r3rk1/1n1bqpb1/p2p2p1/1ppPpP1n/2P1P2p/1P1BB2P/P2QN1P1/3NRR1K b - -


44  1108:53   +1.58   3...Kh7 4.Rf3 Rh8 5.Ref1 Bf6 6.Nf2 g5 7.Ng4 Rbg8 8.a3 Nf4 9.Qc3 Nh5 10.R3f2 Qd8 11.Qd2 Nf4 12.Bb1 Qe7 13.Qb2 Nh5 14.Qc1 Nf4 15.Bd2 a5 16.Kg1 b4 (615.750.595.344) 9254
44  1108:53   +1.70   3...Rfe8 4.Nf2 f6 5.fxg6 Rf8 6.Rg1 Ng3+ 7.Nxg3 hxg3 8.Nd1 bxc4 9.bxc4 Qe8 10.Ref1 Qxg6 11.Qe1 Qh7 12.Qxg3 Nd8 13.Nc3 Kh8 14.Rb1 Nf7 15.Rgf1 Rg8 16.Qf2 Rb4 (615.750.595.344) 9254
44  1108:53   +1.72   3...f6 4.fxg6 Qe8 5.Rf3 Qxg6 6.Ref1 Kf7 7.Bg5 Rh8 8.Bxh4 Rbg8 9.Qe1 Ke8 10.cxb5 axb5 11.Qf2 b4 12.Ba6 Na5 13.Ne3 Qxe4 14.Rd1 Qh7 15.Nf5 Bf8 16.Bd3 Qf7 (615.750.595.344) 9254
44  1108:53   +1.80   3...Rbe8 4.Nf2 Kh7 5.Ng4 f6 6.fxg6+ Kxg6 7.Nh2 Rh8 8.Nf3 Ng3+ 9.Nxg3 hxg3 10.Ng1 Bh6 11.Bxh6 Rxh6 12.Re3 Kh7 13.Rxg3 Qd8 14.Ne2 b4 15.Qe3 a5 16.Rgf3 Rg8 (615.750.595.344) 9254
44  1108:53   +1.86   3...Rbc8 4.Rg1 gxf5 5.exf5 e4 6.Bg5 Qe5 7.Bc2 Qxf5 8.Bxh4 Be5 9.Ndc3 Qh7 10.Nxe4 f5 11.Ng5 Qh6 12.g3 bxc4 13.bxc4 Bf6 14.Rb1 Nd8 15.Ne4 Qxd2 16.Nxd2 Re8 (615.750.595.344) 9254
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
45  1233:43   +1.57   3...f6 4.fxg6 Qe8 5.Rf3 Qxg6 6.Ref1 Kf7 7.Bg5 Rh8 8.Bxh4 Rbg8 9.Qe1 Ke8 10.cxb5 axb5 11.Qf2 Qh7 12.Ndc3 Nf4 13.Nxf4 Qxh4 14.Ne6 Qxf2 15.R1xf2 b4 16.Na4 Nd8 (685.294.345.237) 9257
45  1233:43   +1.82   3...Rfe8 4.Nf2 f6 5.fxg6 Rf8 6.Rg1 Ng3+ 7.Nxg3 hxg3 8.Nd1 Qe8 9.Ref1 Qxg6 10.Qe1 Qh7 11.Qxg3 Kh8 12.Bd2 Rg8 13.Qf2 Rbf8 14.h4 Qh5 15.Ne3 Bh6 16.g3 b4 (685.294.345.237) 9257
45  1233:43   +1.92   3...Kh7 4.Rf3 Rh8 5.Nf2 Kg8 6.Rf1 Rf8 7.Ng4 f6 8.fxg6 Qe8 9.Nh6+ Bxh6 10.Bxh6 Qxg6 11.Bxf8 Kxf8 12.Qe1 Qg5 13.a3 Rg8 14.R1f2 Ke7 15.Kg1 Kd8 16.Qc3 Qg6 (685.294.345.237) 9257
45  1233:43   +1.95   3...Ra8 4.Bg5 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh8 6.Bxf8 Qxf8 7.Rf3 Qg7 8.Nf2 Rg8 9.Ng4 gxf5 10.Qh6+ Qxh6 11.Nxh6 Rg6 12.Nxf5 Bg5 13.Ref1 b4 14.Rg1 f6 15.g3 Nxg3+ 16.Nexg3 hxg3 (685.294.345.237) 9257
45  1233:43   +1.97   3...Rbe8 4.Nf2 Kh7 5.Ng4 f6 6.fxg6+ Kxg6 7.Nh2 Ng3+ 8.Nxg3 hxg3 9.Nf3 Rh8 10.Bf4 bxc4 11.bxc4 Bh6 12.Nh4+ Kg7 13.Bxh6+ Rxh6 14.Qe3 Kh7 15.Qxg3 Rg8 16.Qf2 Nd8 (685.294.345.237) 9257
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
46  1774:56   +1.75   3...Kh7 4.Rf3 Rh8 5.Nf2 Rbf8 6.Rg1 Kg8 7.Ng4 f6 8.fxg6 Bxg4 9.hxg4 Ng3+ 10.Kh2 Qe8 11.Nxg3 hxg3+ 12.Kxg3 b4 13.Rff1 Qxg6 14.Rh1 Kf7 15.Rh3 Nd8 16.Rfh1 Rxh3+ (991.721.850.847) 9312
46  1774:56   +1.81   3...Rbe8 4.Nf2 Kh7 5.Ng4 f6 6.fxg6+ Kxg6 7.Nh2 Rh8 8.Nf3 Ng3+ 9.Nxg3 hxg3 10.Bf4 Reg8 11.Bxg3 Kf7 12.Qf2 Bh6 13.Nh4 Ke8 14.Bh2 Qg7 15.Re2 b4 16.Nf5 Qh7 (991.721.850.847) 9312
46  1774:56   +1.81   3...f6 4.fxg6 Qe8 5.Rf3 Qxg6 6.Ref1 Kf7 7.Bg5 Rh8 8.Bxh4 Rbg8 9.Qe1 Ke8 10.cxb5 axb5 11.Qf2 Bh6 12.Bxf6 Nxf6 13.Rxf6 Qh5 14.Rf3 Rf8 15.Qe1 Rxf3 16.Rxf3 Rf8 (991.721.850.847) 9312
46  1774:56   +1.90   3...Ra8 4.Bg5 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Nf2 Rg8 7.Ng4 g5 8.Rf3 Bh8 9.f6 Bxf6 10.Nxf6+ Kxh6 11.Ref1 Raf8 12.Nxg8+ Rxg8 13.Rxf7 Qe8 14.a3 Kg6 15.R7f2 Qe7 16.b4 Kg7 (991.721.850.847) 9312
46  1774:56   +1.93   3...bxc4 4.bxc4 f6 5.fxg6 Qe8 6.Rf3 Qxg6 7.Ref1 Kh7 8.Qe1 Rh8 9.Bf2 Nd8 10.Bxh4 Nf7 11.Ne3 Ng5 12.R3f2 Kg8 13.Nf5 Bf8 14.Neg3 Nxg3+ 15.Bxg3 Bxf5 16.Rxf5 Be7 (991.721.850.847) 9312
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
47  2059:53   +1.66   3...f6 4.fxg6 Qe8 5.Rf3 Qxg6 6.Ref1 Kf7 7.Bg5 Rh8 8.Bxh4 Rbg8 9.Qe1 Ke8 10.cxb5 axb5 11.Qf2 Qh7 12.Ndc3 Nf4 13.Nxf4 Qxh4 14.Ne6 Qxf2 15.R1xf2 b4 16.Na4 Nd8 (1153.673.442.417) 9334
47  2059:53   +1.67   3...Kh7 4.Rf3 Rh8 5.Nf2 Rbf8 6.Rg1 Kg8 7.Ng4 f6 8.Nh6+ Bxh6 9.Bxh6 g5 10.Bxf8 Qxf8 11.Rff1 Qg7 12.a3 g4 13.Ra1 Kf7 14.Ra2 Rg8 15.Qe3 Na5 16.Rb2 Qg5 (1153.673.442.417) 9334
47  2059:53   +1.76   3...Rbe8 4.Nf2 Kh7 5.Ng4 f6 6.fxg6+ Kxg6 7.Nh2 Rh8 8.Nf3 Ng3+ 9.Nxg3 hxg3 10.Bf4 Reg8 11.Bxg3 Bh6 12.Qf2 Kf7 13.Nh4 Ke8 14.Bh2 Qg7 15.Re2 b4 16.Nf5 Qh7 (1153.673.442.417) 9334
47  2059:53   +1.97   3...bxc4 4.bxc4 f6 5.fxg6 Qe8 6.Rf3 Qxg6 7.Ref1 Kh7 8.Qe1 Rh8 9.Bf2 Nd8 10.Bxh4 Nf7 11.Ne3 Ng5 12.R3f2 Kg8 13.Nf5 Bf8 14.Neg3 Nxg3+ 15.Bxg3 Bxf5 16.Rxf5 Be7 (1153.673.442.417) 9334
47  2059:53   +2.01   3...Ra8 4.Bg5 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Nf2 Rg8 7.Ng4 g5 8.Rf3 Bh8 9.f6 Bxf6 10.Nxf6+ Kxh6 11.Ref1 Raf8 12.Nxg8+ Rxg8 13.Rxf7 Qe8 14.a3 Kg6 15.R7f2 Kh7 16.b4 Kh8 (1153.673.442.417) 9334
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
48     2182:49+1.67    3...Kh7 4.Rf3 Rh8 5.Nf2 Rbf8 6.Rg1 Kg8
                       7.Ng4 f6 8.Nh6+ Bxh6 9.Bxh6 g5
                       10.Bxf8 Qxf8 11.a3 Kf7 12.Kh2 Qg8
                       13.Rgf1 Qf8 14.Ra1 Qg7 15.Qe1 Rg8
                       16.Ra2 Ke7 (1223.957.626.437) 9345

48     2182:49+1.74    3...f6 4.fxg6 Qe8 5.Rf3 Qxg6 6.Ref1 Kf7
                       7.Bg5 Rh8 8.Bxh4 Rbg8 9.Qe1 Ke8
                       10.cxb5 axb5 11.Qf2 Qh7 12.Ndc3 Nf4
                       13.Nxf4 Qxh4 14.Ne6 Qxf2 15.R1xf2 b4
                       16.Na4 Nd8 (1223.957.626.437) 9345

48     2182:49+1.97    3...Rbe8 4.Nf2 f6 5.fxg6 Ra8 6.Kh2 Qe8
                       7.Rg1 Ng3 8.Nxg3 hxg3+ 9.Kxg3 Qxg6+
                       10.Kh2 Nd8 11.Rgf1 Nf7 12.Nh1 Bh6
                       13.Ng3 bxc4 14.bxc4 Rab8 15.Rb1 Rxb1
                       16.Rxb1 Bg5 (1223.957.626.437) 9345

48     2182:49+2.02    3...bxc4 4.bxc4 f6 5.fxg6 Qe8 6.Rf3 Qxg6
                       7.Ref1 Kh7 8.Qe1 Rh8 9.Qxh4 Kg8
                       10.Kh2 Nd8 11.Qf2 Nf7 12.Ng3 Nf4
                       13.Nf5 Bxf5 14.exf5 Qg5 15.Qc2 Rh4
                       16.Rg3 Qh5 (1223.957.626.437) 9345

47     2182:49+2.01    3...Ra8 4.Bg5 Bf6 5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Nf2 Rg8
                       7.Ng4 g5 8.Rf3 Bh8 9.f6 Bxf6
                       10.Nxf6+ Kxh6 11.Ref1 Raf8 12.Nxg8+ Rxg8
                       13.Rxf7 Qe8 14.a3 Kg6 15.R7f2 Kh7
                       16.b4 Kh8 (1223.957.626.437) 9345

It's still not clear from this that 22...Kh7 is losing. I mean just visually. It is easy to test it from a later point in the PV of course. The first moves are rather forced. I just wanted to see if 22...Kh7 actually did get a better score and what my testversion was doing at large depth. And this is just a single change in search... :fat: .
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-24 18:43
I played Kh8 and eventually Lost. Score is enough to beat after f4.

This is really a difficult position. Bad Luck I everytime face such positions when i play KID. :cry::cry::cry:
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f3 O-O 6. Be3 Nc6 7. Nge2 e5 8. d5
Na5 9. Ng3 c5 10. Bd3 h5 11. Nge2 Nh7 12. O-O b6 13. Qd2 Qe7 14. b3 Bd7 15.
Rae1 Rab8 16. Kh1 a6 17. Nd1 Nf6 18. Ng1 Nb7 19. h3 b5 20. f4 h4 21. f5 Nh5
22. Ne2 Kh8 23. Rf3 Bf6 24. Nf2 Rg8 25. Ng4 g5 26. g3 Rg7 27. Rg1 Rbg8 28. Nh6
Rb8 29. gxh4 gxh4 30. Rxg7 Kxg7 31. Ng4 Kh7 32. cxb5 axb5 33. Bxc5 Rh8 34. Be3
Nc5 35. Bxc5 dxc5 36. a4 bxa4 37. bxa4
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-24 18:01
I just have a Quad. In that its still difficult to see f4 in spv..

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[Analysis "Houdini 6 Pro x64-popc"]
[AnalysisTime "1008"]
[FEN "1r3rk1/1n1bqpb1/p2p1np1/1ppPp2p/2P1P3/1P1BBP1P/P2Q2P1/3NRRNK w - - 0 20"]
[SetUp "1"]

20. Nf2 Ra8 21. g3 b4 22. f4 a5 23. f5 a4 24. Bg5 axb3 25. axb3 Ra3 26. Bc2
Na5 27. Qd1 Ra8 28. g4 Qe8 29. Be3 hxg4 30. hxg4 Ra2 31. Nf3 Nxc4 32. bxc4 Ba4
33. Bxa4 Qxa4 34. Qxa4 R8xa4 35. Kg1 R4a3 36. fxg6 fxg6 37. Nh4 Rc3 38. g5 Nh5
39. Ng4 Rxc4 {(0:16:48) 3925318kN}{[%eval 119,30,Houdini 6 Pro
x64-popc][%meval 1008s|TB:30]} *
Parent - - By Eelco de Groot (***) Date 2017-09-24 18:23
My testversion was perhaps lucky although not fast in finding it. 7 threads on quad i7 6700. It's probably no good. But I have not much window for real testing (Elo tests or SPRT or whatevever) because the computer is too much in use, and I don't want to put it on Fishtest, until I have some measurements. But I'm not in a hurry. This is more fun than running 100's of games. And even that is not nearly enough.

1r3rk1/1n1bqpb1/p2p1np1/1ppPp2p/2P1P3/1P1BBP1P/P2Q2P1/3NRRNK w - -


Engine: Stockfish20170922(latest)_009 HT (512 MB)
by T. Romstad, M. Costalba, J. Kiiski, G. Linscott

21/30  0:01   +0.76    1.Bg5 Qe8 2.Ne2 b4 3.Bh4 Nh7 4.Kg1 a5
                       5.a4 bxa3 6.Ndc3 Qc8 7.Nb5 Bxb5
                       8.cxb5 Bf6 9.Bf2 a4 10.Qa2 axb3
                       11.Qxb3 Ra8 12.Nc3 g5 (15.875.092) 9592

22/33  0:03   +0.65    1.Bg5 Qe8 2.Ne2 b4 3.Qc1 Nh7 4.Bh4 Bh8
                       5.Nb2 Bg7 6.Bc2 a5 7.Qd2 a4 8.Nxa4 Bxa4
                       9.bxa4 Nf6 10.Nc1 Nd7 11.Bb3 Na5
                       12.Nd3 Nb6 13.Qc2 Ra8 14.Kg1 (29.428.793) 9557

23/31  0:05   +0.72++  1.Nf2 (49.764.963) 9430

23/33  0:11   +0.80++  1.Nf2 (108.547.867) 9443

23/40  0:11   +0.83    1.Nf2 b4 2.f4 Ng4 3.hxg4 Qh4+ 4.Nfh3 hxg4
                       5.f5 gxh3 6.gxh3 gxf5 7.exf5 f6
                       8.Qg2 Qh7 9.Ne2 Kf7 10.Qg6+ Kg8
                       11.Qg4 Kf7 12.Kh2 Rh8 13.Ng3 Rbg8
                       14.Ne4 (110.590.309) 9446
.
.
.
31/43  1:02   +0.93--  1.Nf2 Ra8 (574.979.224) 9139

31/46  1:09   +0.95    1.Nf2 Ra8 2.f4 Ng4 3.Nxg4 exf4
                       4.Nf6+ Qxf6 5.Bxf4 Qb2 6.Qxb2 Bxb2
                       7.Nf3 Rae8 8.e5 Bc3 9.Re3 dxe5
                       10.Nxe5 Bxe5 11.Rxe5 Rxe5 12.Bxe5 Re8
                       13.Bf4 Kg7 14.Kg1 (634.314.948) 9128

32/43  1:13   +1.02++  1.Nf2 (666.863.329) 9123

32/58  1:40   +0.90    1.Nf2 Rbc8 2.f4 Ng4 3.Nxg4 exf4
                       4.Nf6+ Qxf6 5.Bxf4 Qb2 6.Qxb2 Bxb2
                       7.Nf3 Rce8 8.e5 Bc3 9.Re2 Kg7 10.Kh2 Bxe5
                       11.Nxe5 dxe5 12.Bxe5+ f6 13.Bg3 Rxe2
                       14.Bxe2 (910.686.494) 9035

33/44  1:46   +0.98++  1.Nf2 (966.271.644) 9031

33/45  1:52   +0.99    1.Nf2 Rbc8 2.f4 Ng4 3.Nxg4 exf4
                       4.Nf6+ Qxf6 5.Bxf4 Qb2 6.Qxb2 Bxb2
                       7.Nf3 Rce8 8.e5 Bc3 9.Re2 Kg7 10.Kh2 b4
                       11.Rff2 dxe5 12.Nxe5 Bc8 13.Nc6 Be1
                       14.Rf3 (1.015.390.289) 9031

34/50  2:09   +0.92--  1.Nf2 Rbc8 (1.173.154.674) 9026

34/50  2:27   +0.84--  1.Nf2 Ra8 (1.329.739.957) 8995

34/50  2:32   +0.92++  1.Nf2 (1.374.081.385) 8991

34/50  2:44   +0.98    1.Nf2 Rbc8 2.f4 Ng4 3.Nxg4 exf4
                       4.Nf6+ Qxf6 5.Bxf4 Qb2 6.Qxb2 Bxb2
                       7.Nf3 Rce8 8.Re2 Bc3 9.e5 Kg7 10.Kg1 Re7
                       11.Rc1 b4 12.Rcc2 dxe5 13.Nxe5 Bf5
                       14.Bxf5 (1.480.892.840) 8994

35/48  3:11   +0.94    1.Nf2 Rbc8 2.f4 Ng4 3.Nxg4 exf4
                       4.Nf6+ Qxf6 5.Bxf4 Qb2 6.Qxb2 Bxb2
                       7.Nf3 Rce8 8.Re2 Bc3 9.e5 Kg7 10.Kg1 dxe5
                       11.Nxe5 bxc4 12.bxc4 Bd4+ 13.Kh2 Bc8
                       14.Nf3 (1.716.781.280) 8986

36/52  3:28   +1.01    1.Nf2 Rbc8 2.f4 Ng4 3.Nxg4 exf4
                       4.Nf6+ Qxf6 5.Bxf4 Qb2 6.Qxb2 Bxb2
                       7.Nf3 Bc3 8.Re2 Rce8 9.e5 Kg7 10.Kg1 bxc4
                       11.bxc4 dxe5 12.Nxe5 Bc8 13.Nc6 Rxe2
                       14.Bxe2 (1.870.320.896) 8978

37/51  4:07   +1.00    1.Nf2 Ra8 2.f4 Ng4 3.Nxg4 exf4
                       4.Nf6+ Qxf6 5.Bxf4 Qb2 6.Qxb2 Bxb2
                       7.Nf3 Bc3 8.Re2 Rae8 9.e5 Kg7 10.Kg1 dxe5
                       11.Nxe5 Bd4+ 12.Kh2 Bxe5 13.Bxe5+ f6
                       14.Bg3 (2.217.189.030) 8973

38/52  4:27   +0.92--  1.Nf2 Ra8 (2.398.261.656) 8967

38/52  5:48   +1.00++  1.Nf2 (3.127.941.337) 8970

38/57  9:13   +1.11++  1.f4 (4.974.484.926) 8988

38/66  12:52  +1.27++  1.f4 (6.968.537.656) 9019

38/66  25:03  +1.28    1.f4 Ng4 2.hxg4 Qh4+ 3.Nh3 hxg4 4.f5 f6
                       5.Kh2 bxc4 6.bxc4 Qh5 7.Qf2 gxh3
                       8.g4 Qh7 9.Qd2 g5 10.Rf3 Kf7 11.Rxh3 Qg8
                       12.Kg2 Ke7 13.Reh1 Nd8 14.Bc2 (13.571.944.389) 9027

39/41  26:22  +1.36++  1.f4 (14.296.715.984) 9035

39/49  31:05  +1.43++  1.f4 (16.874.861.306) 9047

39/62  33:57  +1.21--  1.f4 bxc4 (18.438.722.290) 9051

39/63  34:03  +1.37++  1.f4 (18.498.179.185) 9051

39/68  35:09  +1.41    1.f4 bxc4 2.bxc4 h4 3.f5 Nh5 4.Ne2 Nd8
                       5.Bg5 Bf6 6.Bh6 Bg7 7.Rf3 Bxh6
                       8.Qxh6 Qf6 9.Ref1 Qg7 10.Qg5 Qf6
                       11.Qd2 g5 12.Ne3 Qg7 13.Qa5 f6
                       14.Qc7 (19.097.084.494) 9051

40/44  35:12  +1.34--  1.f4 bxc4 (19.116.826.864) 9051

40/50  35:18  +1.26--  1.f4 bxc4 (19.177.318.275) 9050

40/61  35:29  +1.34++  1.f4 (19.276.414.811) 9051

40/62  36:53  +1.38    1.f4 bxc4 2.bxc4 h4 3.f5 Nh5 4.Ne2 Nd8
                       5.Rg1 Re8 6.Nf2 Nf4 7.Rgf1 g5 8.Rb1 Rxb1
                       9.Rxb1 f6 10.Rb6 Bc8 11.Nc3 Nf7
                       12.Qb2 Nh5 13.Kg1 Nh6 14.Bc2 (20.030.223.053) 9048

41/58  40:18  +1.45++  1.f4 (21.888.917.338) 9049

41/62  47:47  +1.49    1.f4 bxc4 2.bxc4 h4 3.f5 Nh5 4.Ne2 Nd8
                       5.Rg1 Re8 6.Nf2 Nf4 7.Rgf1 g5 8.Rb1 Rxb1
                       9.Rxb1 Bc8 10.Nc3 Nxd3 11.Nxd3 f6
                       12.Na4 Nf7 13.Nb6 Bd7 14.Qe1 (25.984.377.773) 9061

42/68  61:50  +1.42--  1.f4 Rbe8 (33.651.375.537) 9069

42/68  64:21  +1.34--  1.f4 Rbe8 (35.008.878.153) 9066

42/68  68:56  +1.42++  1.f4 (37.485.869.343) 9063

42/68  73:47  +1.40    1.f4 Rbe8 2.Nf3 Qd8 3.fxe5 dxe5
                       4.Qf2 Qc7 5.Qg3 Nd6 6.Bd2 bxc4
                       7.bxc4 Bc8 8.Nc3 Bd7 9.Kg1 Nh7
                       10.Rf2 Re7 11.Ne2 a5 12.Ref1 a4
                       13.Nh4 Kh8 14.Be3 (40.082.196.063) 9052

43/61  82:23  +1.47++  1.f4 (44.781.884.471) 9059

43/63  107:35 +1.55++  1.f4 (58.501.157.025) 9062

43/63  111:09 +1.40    1.f4 h4 2.f5 Nh5 3.Ne2 Ra8 4.Bg5 Bf6
                       5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Bxf8 Rxf8 7.Bc2 Kg8
                       8.Qd3 Bg5 9.Ne3 b4 10.Rf3 a5 11.a4 Nd8
                       12.Ref1 Re8 13.Qd1 Bxe3 14.Rxe3 (60.439.160.043) 9061

44/64  121:20 +1.48++  1.f4 (65.956.747.121) 9059

44/70  127:01 +1.33--  1.f4 h4 (69.037.944.972) 9058

44/70  130:35 +1.44++  1.f4 (70.992.955.368) 9059

44/70  136:01 +1.40    1.f4 h4 2.f5 Nh5 3.Ne2 Ra8 4.Bg5 Bf6
                       5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Bxf8 Rxf8 7.Rf3 Bg5
                       8.Qc2 Kg7 9.Ref1 Ra8 10.Ne3 b4
                       11.Ng4 Kh8 12.Qb2 Kg8 13.Ne3 a5
                       14.a4 (74.053.543.968) 9073

45/62  146:51 +1.47++  1.f4 (80.087.182.426) 9089

45/67  152:02 +1.32--  1.f4 h4 (82.959.668.003) 9093

45/67  153:14 +1.35    1.f4 h4 2.f5 Nh5 3.Ne2 Ra8 4.Bg5 Bf6
                       5.Bh6 Kh7 6.Bxf8 Rxf8 7.Ne3 Bg5
                       8.Bc2 b4 9.Qd3 Kg7 10.Rf3 a5 11.Rg1 Nf4
                       12.Nxf4 Bxf4 13.Ng4 Qg5 14.Nf2 (83.625.966.955) 9095

46/69  163:10 +1.42++  1.f4 (89.102.424.511) 9100

46/69  186:12 +1.50++  1.f4 (101.699.714.427) 9102
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-24 18:30
U are using the latest one. I then used a old one and even at depth 42 it was stuck with Nf2 after fluctuating from Bg5
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) [us] Date 2017-09-20 17:36
The time i was analyzing it was difficult for even stockfish.
Parent - - By Stonehenge (***) Date 2017-09-27 06:32
Here's some very long analysis with Houdini 6. I ran it for testing purposes, but I might as well publish the results.
Dual Xeon E5-2698v4 @ 2.3 GHz, 80 threads, 32768 MB of Large Page hash, 6-men Syzygy.
74 MN/s on a board full of pieces, after 20 hours about 5.4 trillion nodes.

20/43      00:08,028         648 456k   80 774k   +0,95   20.Bg5 Qe8 21.Nf2 Ra8 22.Bh6 b4 23.Bxg7 Kxg7 24.f4 h4 25.f5 Rh8 26.Ng4 Nh5 27.Qg5 f6 28.Qxh4 g5 29.Qf2 Nf4 30.Bc2 a5 31.Ne2 a4

21/43      00:09,220         748 005k   81 128k   +0,98   20.Bg5 Qe8 21.Nf2 Kh8 22.Bh6 Kg8 23.Qc1 bxc4 24.bxc4 a5 25.Ne2 Nh7 26.Bd2 Bf6 27.Nc3 Qd8 28.f4 Re8 29.f5 Bh4 30.Qb2
21/43      00:12,544       1 012 697k   80 731k   +1,16   20.Nf2 b4 21.f4 Ng4 22.hxg4 Qh4+ 23.Nfh3 hxg4 24.f5 gxf5 25.exf5 gxh3 26.Nf3 Qg3 27.Ng5 f6 28.Nxh3 Qh4 29.Kh2 Kf7 30.g3 Qh7 31.Kg2 e4 32.Be2
22/47      00:22,970       1 822 896k   79 359k   +0,94   20.Nf2 Ra8 21.f4 Ng4 22.Nxg4 exf4 23.Nf6+ Qxf6 24.Bxf4 Qc3 25.Qe2 Qb2 26.Qxb2 Bxb2 27.Nf3 Bc3 28.Rc1 b4 29.e5 Rae8 30.exd6 Kg7 31.Rc2 f6 32.Rcc1 g5 33.Bh2 Re3 34.Rcd1 Rfe8 35.Bg1
22/50      00:59,593       4 732 444k   79 412k   +1,27   20.f4 bxc4 21.bxc4 h4 22.f5 Nh5 23.Ne2 Nd8 24.Bg5 Bf6 25.Bh6 Bg7 26.Be3 gxf5 27.exf5 e4 28.Bg5 Qe5 29.Bc2 Bxf5 30.Bxh4 Bg6 31.g4 e3 32.Qc1 Bh6 33.Bxg6 fxg6 34.Rxf8+ Bxf8
23/50      01:11,569       5 657 064k   79 043k   +1,19   20.Nf2 Rbc8 21.f4 Ng4 22.Nxg4 exf4 23.Nf6+ Qxf6 24.Bxf4 Qb2 25.Qxb2 Bxb2 26.Nf3 Bc3 27.Re2 f6 28.Bh6 Rf7 29.Ref2 bxc4 30.bxc4 f5 31.Ng5 Rf6 32.Ne6 Bxe6 33.dxe6 f4 34.e7 Re8 35.Bg5 Rxe7 36.e5
24/53      01:14,189       5 853 857k   78 904k   +1,13   20.Nf2 Rbc8 21.f4 Ng4 22.Nxg4 exf4 23.Nf6+ Bxf6 24.Bxf4 g5 25.Bh2 Be5 26.Nf3 Bxh2 27.Nxh2 f6 28.Qe2 bxc4 29.Bxc4 Be8 30.Bxa6 Rb8 31.Nf3 Bg6 32.Bd3 Ra8 33.Rb1
25/53      01:36,539       7 530 994k   78 009k   +1,09   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 b4 23.Bc2 a5 24.Rg1 Ra8 25.Nf2 a4 26.Bg5 Bf6 27.Bh6 Kh7 28.Ng4 Rg8 29.Nxf6+ Qxf6 30.Bg5 Qg7 31.fxg6+ fxg6 32.Qd1 Nd8 33.bxa4 Nf7 34.Bxh4 g5 35.Bf2 g4 36.Bh4 gxh3 37.gxh3 Qh6
26/53      01:51,546       8 654 920k   77 590k   +1,15   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 b4 23.Bc2 a5 24.Bg5 Bf6 25.Bh6 Kh7 26.Bxf8 Rxf8 27.Qd3 Bg5 28.Ne3 Re8 29.Rf3 Ng7 30.fxg6+ fxg6 31.Ref1 Kg8 32.Kg1 Nh5 33.Qd1 Qd8 34.Qe1 Qe7 35.Qf2
27/53      03:20,296      15 329 880k   76 536k   +1,41   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 Ra8 23.Bg5 Bf6 24.Bh6 Kh7 25.Bxf8 Rxf8 26.Rf3 Bg5 27.Qc2 b4 28.Ref1 Qf6 29.Nf2 Kg8 30.g3 hxg3 31.Nxg3 Nf4 32.Ne2 Qh8 33.Ng4 Nxh3 34.Kg2 Nf4+ 35.Nxf4 exf4 36.Rh3
28/56      04:10,829      19 104 984k   76 167k   +1,37   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 b4 23.Rf3 gxf5 24.exf5 e4 25.Bxe4 Qxe4 26.Nf2 Qe5 27.Nd3 Qe7 28.Bg5 f6 29.Bxh4 Qf7 30.g4 Rbe8 31.gxh5 Qxh5 32.Qf4 Bh6 33.Ng3 Bxf4 34.Nxh5 Rxe1+ 35.Nxe1 Bg5 36.Bxg5 fxg5 37.Ng3 a5 38.Kg2 a4 39.Nd3
29/56      05:01,766      22 980 946k   76 154k   +1,44   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 Ra8 23.Bg5 Bf6 24.Bh6 Kh7 25.Bxf8 Rxf8 26.Rf3 Bg5 27.Qc2 b4 28.Ref1 Qf6 29.Nf2 Re8 30.g4 hxg3 31.Ng4 Qd8 32.Nxg3 Nf4 33.Ne2 Rh8 34.Nxf4 Bxf4 35.fxg6+ Kg7 36.Rxf4 exf4 37.Qb2+ f6 38.Qg2
30/63      07:12,626      32 708 200k   75 603k   +1,42   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 Ra8 23.Bg5 Bf6 24.Bh6 Kh7 25.Bxf8 Rxf8 26.Rf3 Bg5 27.Qc2 Rg8 28.Ref1 f6 29.g4 hxg3 30.Nxg3 Nf4 31.Ne3 Kh8 32.fxg6 Rxg6 33.h4 Bxh4 34.Qh2 Qh7 35.Ngf5 Bg5 36.Bc2 Bh6 37.Rg1 Rg5 38.Rxg5 Bxg5 39.Qxh7+ Kxh7 40.Rf2
31/63      10:38,999      47 988 269k   75 099k   +1,35   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 Ra8 23.Bg5 Bf6 24.Bh6 Kh7 25.Bxf8 Rxf8 26.Rf3 Bg5 27.Qc2 Rg8 28.Ref1 f6 29.g4 hxg3 30.Nxg3 Nf4 31.Ne3 Kh8 32.fxg6 Rxg6 33.h4 Bxh4 34.Ngf5 Qh7 35.Qh2 Bg5 36.Bc2 Bh6 37.Rg1 Rxg1+ 38.Kxg1 Bg5 39.Qxh7+ Kxh7 40.Kf2 Kg8 41.Rg3 Kf8 42.Kf3 Be8 43.Ng2 Bh5+ 44.Kf2 bxc4 45.bxc4 Bg6
32/63      11:20,333      51 055 010k   75 044k   +1,29   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 Ra8 23.Bg5 Bf6 24.Bh6 Kh7 25.Bxf8 Rxf8 26.Rf3 Bg5 27.Qc2 Rg8 28.Ref1 Rg7 29.fxg6+ fxg6 30.cxb5 axb5 31.Kg1 Bf4 32.Nxf4 Nxf4 33.Kh1 Rg8 34.Ne3 Ra8 35.Rxf4 exf4 36.Rxf4 Rf8 37.Rxf8 Qxf8 38.Qe2 Qf4 39.Bxb5 Bxb5 40.Qxb5 Qxe3
33/64      12:48,468      57 562 529k   74 905k   +1,36   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 Ra8 23.Bg5 Bf6 24.Bh6 Kh7 25.Bxf8 Rxf8 26.Ne3 Bg5 27.Bc2 Kg8 28.Qd3 Re8 29.Rf3 b4 30.Ref1 Nd8 31.Qd1 Bxe3 32.Rxe3 Qg5 33.Qc1 a5 34.Kh2 Kg7 35.Rff3 Kg8 36.Rf2 Qh6 37.Rf1 Qg5 38.Ref3
34/67      35:00,015     156 079 491k   74 323k   +1,48   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 Kh8 23.Rf3 Bf6 24.Nf2 Rg8 25.Ng4 g5 26.Rg1 Qd8 27.g3 hxg3 28.Rfxg3 Be7 29.Rf3 Rg7 30.Ng3 Nf4 31.f6 Rh7 32.fxe7 Rxh3+ 33.Nh2 Qxe7 34.Nf5 Bxf5 35.Bxf4 exf4 36.exf5 Rh6 37.Qg2 f6 38.Rh3 Qh7 39.Rxh6 Qxh6 40.cxb5
35/71    1:55:21,079     512 196 478k   74 005k   +1,72   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 f6 23.fxg6 Qe8 24.Rf3 Qxg6 25.Ref1 Kf7 26.Bg5 Rh8 27.Bxh4 Rbg8 28.Qe1 Bh6 29.Rxf6+ Nxf6 30.Rxf6+ Qxf6 31.Bxf6 Kxf6 32.Qf2+ Ke7 33.Ng3 Bf4 34.Nf5+ Bxf5 35.exf5 b4 36.Qe2 Rg3 37.Nf2 Re3 38.Qf1 Bg3 39.f6+ Kd8 40.Be2 Bf4 41.Nd3 Rf8 42.Nxf4 exf4 43.f7 Ke7
36/81    3:05:47,734     824 370 508k   73 949k   +1,74   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 f6 23.fxg6 Qe8 24.Rf3 Qxg6 25.Ref1 Kf7 26.Qe1 Rh8 27.Bf2 Rbg8 28.Bxh4 Ke8 29.cxb5 axb5 30.Qf2 b4 31.Ba6 Nd8 32.Ne3 Nf7 33.Nc4 Qxe4 34.Nb6 Qh7 35.Kg1 Kd8 36.Nxd7 Kxd7 37.a3 Rb8 38.Bd3 e4 39.Bc2 bxa3 40.Rf5 Qh6 41.Nc3
37/81    5:06:13,307   1 361 543 263k   74 104k   +1,81   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 f6 23.fxg6 Qe8 24.Rf3 Qxg6 25.Ref1 Kf7 26.Qe1 Rh8 27.Bf2 Rbg8 28.Bxh4 Ke8 29.cxb5 axb5 30.Qf2 Bh6 31.Bxf6 Nxf6 32.Rxf6 Qh5 33.Rf3 Rf8 34.Qe1 Rxf3 35.Rxf3 Rf8 36.Rxf8+ Kxf8 37.Ng1 Kg8 38.Nc3 b4 39.Nce2 Qg5 40.Ng3 Qc1 41.Qxc1

38/85    6:54:01,366   1 844 102 797k   74 235k   +1,85   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 f6 23.fxg6 Qe8 24.Rf3 Qxg6 25.Ref1 Kf7 26.Qe1 Rh8 27.Bf2 Rbg8 28.Bxh4 Ke8 29.cxb5 axb5 30.Qf2 Bh6 31.Bxf6 Nxf6 32.Rxf6 Qh5 33.Rf3 Rf8 34.Qe1 c4 35.bxc4 bxc4 36.Bxc4 Rxf3 37.Rxf3 Nc5 38.Qa5 Rf8 39.Rxf8+ Kxf8 40.Qc7 Ke7 41.Bb5 Qh4 42.Bxd7 Qe1+ 43.Kh2 Nxd7 44.Ndc3

39/85   13:54:54,311   3 732 112 421k   74 501k   +1,88   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 f6 23.fxg6 Qe8 24.Rf3 Qxg6 25.Ref1 Kf7 26.Qe1 Rh8 27.Bf2 Rbg8 28.Bxh4 Ke8 29.cxb5 axb5 30.Qf2 Bh6 31.Bxf6 Nxf6 32.Rxf6 Qh5 33.Rf3 Rf8 34.Qe1 Rxf3 35.Rxf3 Rf8 36.Rxf8+ Kxf8 37.Ng1 Kg8 38.Nc3 b4 39.Nce2 Qg5 40.Ng3 Qc1 41.Qxc1 Bxc1 42.Nf3 Kg7 43.Kg1 Kf6 44.Ba6 Nd8 45.Kf2

40/85   20:15:18,959   5 450 907 323k   74 752k   +1,87   20.f4 h4 21.f5 Nh5 22.Ne2 Kh7 23.Rf3 Rh8 24.Nf2 Rbg8 25.a3 g5 26.Bxg5 Bf6 27.Be3 Bg5 28.Ng4 Bxe3 29.Qxe3 Qg5 30.Qf2 Ra8 31.Bc2 Rag8 32.Ng1 Nf6 33.Nxf6+ Qxf6 34.Bd3 Na5 35.Rb1 Qh6 36.cxb5 axb5 37.Qe2 Qg5 38.Rf2 c4 39.bxc4 bxc4 40.Bxc4 Rb8 41.Bb5 Bxb5 42.Rxb5 Nb3 43.Nf3 Qh6 44.Rf1 Rxb5 45.Qxb5
Parent - By user923005 (****) [us] Date 2017-09-27 06:40
That's some pretty astounding hardware.
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2018-02-23 08:26
Robert, what do you think about Komodo's approach regarding hash:  https://komodochess.com/Komodo-11-README.html
"Please note Komodo’s hash entry size is a bit different from other programs. If you allocate 16 megabytes, Komodo will only use 12, and not use any more until you set it to 24, and so on with each doubling. This is normal. Our scheme has the advantage that on a computer with memory equal to a power of 2 GB, such as 8 or 16 or 32 GB, you can generally use ¾ of the memory for Hash instead of just half, while still leaving enough for the operating system and other things."

Practically, having a power of 2 makes more sense/speed than an additional 1/4th of memory for Houdini? Thanks, Anton
Parent - By bob (Gold) [us] Date 2018-02-23 22:57
6 of one, half-dozen of the other.  Back in the late 70s to mid 80's, Ken Thompson (belle) used a two-level hash table.  A depth-preferred table and an always-store table.  Made it pretty easy to design a FSM that would do that in constant time.  The always-store table was 2x the size of the other, giving a 3/4 power-of-2 size.  Using 3/4 of memory for hashing is not a bad idea.  But on today's machines, not everyone has a power of 2 memory.  Pretty common to see machines with multiple banks (say 3) where it is impossible to get a power of 2 total size.

Cray Blitz and early Crafty versions used a similar approach for a while, but only works as advertised when you can do something like 3/4 for hash, 1/8 for pawn/eval cache, 1/8 for O/S and program executable.  Not so common any more, and probably a moot point overall.
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-23 16:43 Upvotes 1
[Event "NED/50 YEARS/B (NED)"]
[Site "ICCF"]
[Date "2016.11.19"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Heinke, Richard"]
[Black "Prakash, Om"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "2366"]
[ECO "E99"]
[WhiteElo "2356"]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.Ne1 Nd7 10.Be3 f5 11.f3 f4 12.Bf2 g5 13.Nd3 Ng6 14.c5 Nf6 15.a4 h5 16.a5 g4 17.a6 b6 18.cxd6 cxd6 19.Qe1 Qd7 20.Ra3 Bh6 21.Bd1 Bg5 22.Nb4 g3 23.hxg3 Qg7 24.Nb5 fxg3 25.Bxg3 h4 26.Bh2 Nf4 27.Bxf4 exf4 28.Nxd6 h3 29.e5 Nh5 30.Nc6 Ng3 31.Kh2 hxg2 32.Rg1 Qh6+ 33.Kxg2 Bh3+ 34.Kf2 Bh4 35.Qc3 Qg5 0-1

Parent - - By Stonehenge (***) Date 2017-09-23 20:50
Very nice game, so thematic. Every KID player will love it!
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-24 04:27
Thanks Robert.
but Your houdini gets hard time understanding  KID thematic planning and KING SIDE attack.
Its better than komodo but less than stockfish in this regard.
Parent - - By Stonehenge (***) Date 2017-09-24 11:09
Engines don't know about thematic planning, they just play to win :).
Still, kibitzing this game with Houdini 6 using some moderately deep analysis (1 minute with 4 cores) shows that it would have played nearly all the Black moves of the game after 19.Qe1.
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-24 13:41
Engines don't know about thematic planning, they just play to win :).

To win engines do play with a plan. Stockfish most of the time finds the moves if forced few ones. Houdini Tactical comes second

Still, kibitzing this game with Houdini 6 using some moderately deep analysis (1 minute with 4 cores) shows that it would have played nearly all the Black moves of the game after 19.Qe1.

Sorry Sir, Not rich enough to buy Houdini 6 :( . I had the old Houdini 3 and use it. Want H6 but dont have that money to buy :confused::cry::cry:
Parent - - By Stonehenge (***) Date 2017-09-24 14:21 Upvotes 2
Send an e-mail to houdini@cruxis.be so that I can send you a license.
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-24 14:28
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Parent - - By Stonehenge (***) Date 2017-09-24 15:01 Upvotes 1
Sent, keep an eye on your Gmail spam box (our license mails often end up in there...)
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-24 15:17
OK Sir...
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-24 15:21
Sir,
Have no words to speak up in return. All I can Say is thank you very much sir..
Regards
om
Parent - - By Dragon Mist (****) [hr] Date 2017-09-26 22:14
Robert, congrats for producing yet another favorite for TCEC S10 - this season looks very promising now that we have 3 engines competing for top spot; can't wait to see them battling it out.
Parent - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2017-09-28 16:55
this season looks very promising now that we have 3 engines competing for top spot;

Yes, agreed! This should be a very, very interesting TCEC coming up. Can't wait for it to start :smile:
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-30 16:05
Agree Sir.....This TCEC will be more interesting.
Parent - - By darmar (**) [rs] Date 2017-09-29 21:17
It is not true that Houdini 6 after move 21th is playing same moves as Om Prakash. I have not Houdini 6 because in my country no possibility to pay via internet but I spent 1 $  in Cloud and
Houdini "don't know about thematic planning" nothing and "key's moves" didn't play. I used Kulberg's Houdini 6 in the Cloud and I don't believe he set there unlicensed Houdini.

Parent - - By Stonehenge (***) Date 2017-09-30 09:51
Not sure why you feel the need to write this kind of post, maybe Duty Calls https://xkcd.com/386/ ?
Luckily I love KID :).

Houdini "don't know about thematic planning" nothing
Exactly, that's what I wrote above: "Engines don't know about thematic planning, they just play to win."

It is not true that Houdini 6 after move 21th is playing same moves as Om Prakash.
I wrote: "Kibitzing this game with Houdini 6 using some moderately deep analysis (1 minute with 4 cores) shows that it would have played nearly all the Black moves of the game after 19.Qe1"
Let's have a quick look with the 40-core server, starting from 19.Qe1.

Move 19. Qe1 Qd7: OK
r1bq1rk1/p5b1/Pp1p1nn1/3Pp2p/4Ppp1/2NN1P2/1P2BBPP/R3QRK1 b - - 1 19

23/54  00:59,731   4 660 207k  78 019k   0,00  19. ... Qd7 20.Kh1 Bh6 21.Rg1 Qe7 22.Nb4 Qh7 23.Bb5 g3 24.hxg3 fxg3 25.Bxg3 h4 26.Bf2 Nh5 27.Bc6 Bf4 28.Bxa8 Ng3+ 29.Kh2 Ne2+ 30.Kh1 Ng3+

Move 20. Ra3 Bh6: OK
r1b2rk1/p2q2b1/Pp1p1nn1/3Pp2p/4Ppp1/R1NN1P2/1P2BBPP/4QRK1 b - - 3 20

27/59  01:18,554   6 524 240k  83 054k  +0,58  20. ... Bh6 21.Kh1 Kh8 22.Rg1 Qh7 23.Bh4 Qe7 24.Bxf6+ Qxf6 25.Nb5 Bd7 26.Nb4 Rg8 27.Nc6 Nh4 28.fxg4 hxg4 29.Nxd6 Nxg2 30.Rxg2 Qxd6 31.Qh4 f3 32.Bxf3 gxf3 33.Rxg8+ Rxg8 34.Rxf3 Rf8 35.Rxf8+ Qxf8 36.Kg2 Qg7+ 37.Qg3 Bc8 38.d6 Bf4 39.Qxg7+ Kxg7 40.Nxa7 Bd7 41.b4 b5 42.Nxb5 Bxb5 43.a7 Bc6 44.d7 Bxe4+ 45.Kf2 Bg5

Move 21. Bd1 Bg5: not OK (Bg5 is 3rd move)
r1b2rk1/p2q4/Pp1p1nnb/3Pp2p/4Ppp1/R1NN1P2/1P3BPP/3BQRK1 b - - 5 21

24/58  01:11,187   5 663 576k  79 559k  +0,44  21. ... Kh8 22.Kh1 Rg8 23.Rg1 Qh7 24.Bc2 Bd7 25.Ba4 Bxa4 26.Rxa4 Rac8 27.Ra3 Qd7 28.Nb4 Ne7 29.Bh4 Bg5 30.Bf2 Rg7 31.Qe2 h4 32.fxg4 Nxg4 33.Nd3 Rh7
24/58  01:11,187   5 663 576k  79 559k  +0,15  21. ... Kh7 22.Kh1 Qe7 23.Nb5 Bd7 24.Ba4 h4 25.Bxh4 g3 26.hxg3 Nxh4 27.gxh4 Nh5 28.Rf2 Ng3+ 29.Kg1 Rfc8 30.Rd2 Bxb5 31.Bxb5 Rc7 32.Rc3 Rxc3 33.bxc3 Kg7 34.Nf2 Rc8 35.h5 Rh8 36.Qb1
24/58  01:11,187   5 663 576k  79 559k   0,00  21. ... Bg5 22.Kh1 g3 23.hxg3 fxg3 24.Bxg3 h4 25.Bh2 Nh5 26.f4 Nhxf4 27.Nxf4 Bxf4 28.Bxf4 exf4 29.Bh5 h3 30.Rg1 Qh7 31.Bxg6 hxg2+ 32.Kxg2 f3+ 33.Kf2 Qh2+

Move 22. Nb4 g3: OK
r1b2rk1/p2q4/Pp1p1nn1/3Pp1bp/1N2Ppp1/R1N2P2/1P3BPP/3BQRK1 b - - 7 22

27/59  01:10,404   5 473 168k  77 739k  +0,41  22. ... g3 23.hxg3 fxg3 24.Bxg3 h4 25.Bh2 Nh5 26.f4 Nhxf4 27.Kh1 Qg7 28.Nc6 Nxg2 29.Rxf8+ Nxf8 30.Qg1 Bh3 31.Nb5 Be3 32.Rxe3 Nxe3 33.Bf3 Qxg1+ 34.Bxg1 Nf1 35.Nxd6 Nd7 36.Bg2 Ng3+ 37.Kh2 Bxg2 38.Kxg2 Nf6 39.Bf2 Nfxe4 40.Nxe4 Nxe4 41.Bxh4 Kg7

Move 23. hxg3 Qg7: not OK (Qg7 is 2nd move)
r1b2rk1/p2q4/Pp1p1nn1/3Pp1bp/1N2Pp2/R1N2PP1/1P3BP1/3BQRK1 b - - 0 23

24/64  01:38,369   7 625 798k  77 522k  +0,25  23. ... fxg3 24.Bxg3 h4 25.Bh2 Nh5 26.f4 Nhxf4 27.Nc6 Qg7 28.Kh1 h3 29.g3 Nd3 30.Qe2 Nxb2 31.Rxf8+ Qxf8 32.Bg1 h2 33.Qxh2 Nxd1 34.Qh5 Nxc3 35.Qxg6+ Qg7 36.Qe8+ Kh7 37.Qh5+ Qh6 38.Qxh6+ Kxh6 39.Rxc3 Bxa6
24/64  01:38,369   7 625 798k  77 522k   0,00  23. ... Qg7 24.Nb5 fxg3 25.Bxg3 h4 26.Bh2 Nf4 27.Bxf4 Bxf4 28.Nxd6 Bg3 29.Qd2 Bf4 30.Qe1
24/64  01:38,369   7 625 798k  77 522k  -0,16  23. ... Kh8 24.Nd3 Rg8 25.Qd2 Qg7 26.Nb5 Ne8 27.gxf4 Nxf4 28.Nxf4 Bxf4 29.Be3 Bxe3+ 30.Rxe3 Bxa6 31.Ba4 Rc8 32.f4 exf4 33.Rxf4 Nf6 34.Nc3 Qh6 35.Ref3 Rg4 36.Rf2 Rg6 37.Bb5 Bb7 38.Rf5 Qxd2 39.Rxd2

Move 24. Nb5 fxg3: OK
r1b2rk1/p5q1/Pp1p1nn1/1N1Pp1bp/1N2Pp2/R4PP1/1P3BP1/3BQRK1 b - - 2 24

33/65  00:55,694   4 349 487k  78 096k   0,00  24. ... fxg3 25.Bxg3 h4 26.Bh2 Nf4 27.Bxf4 Bxf4 28.Nxd6 Bh3 29.Rf2 Nh5 30.Rc2 Bg3 31.Qf1 Bf4 32.Nd3 Be3+ 33.Kh2 Qg3+ 34.Kh1 Bd7 35.Qe1 Qxe1+ 36.Nxe1 Ng3+ 37.Kh2 Nf1+ 38.Kh1 Ng3+

Move 25. Bxg3 h4: OK
r1b2rk1/p5q1/Pp1p1nn1/1N1Pp1bp/1N2P3/R4PB1/1P4P1/3BQRK1 b - - 0 25

34/65  00:53,118   4 173 797k  78 575k   0,00  25. ... h4 26.Bh2 Nf4 27.Bxf4 Bxf4 28.Nxd6 Bh3 29.Rf2 Nh5 30.Rc2 Bg3 31.Qf1 Bf4 32.Nd3 Be3+ 33.Kh2 Qg3+ 34.Kh1 Bd7 35.Qe1 Qxe1+ 36.Nxe1 Ng3+ 37.Kh2 Nf1+ 38.Kh1 Ng3+

Move 26. Bh2 Nf4: OK
35/73  01:45,781   8 464 260k  80 016k   0,00  26. ... Nf4 27.Bxf4 Bxf4 28.Nxd6 Bh3 29.Rf2 Nh5 30.Rc2 Bg3 31.Qf1 Bf4 32.Nd3 Be3+ 33.Kh2 Qg3+ 34.Kh1 Bd7 35.Qe1 Qxe1+ 36.Nxe1 Ng3+ 37.Kh2 Nf1+ 38.Kh1 Ng3+

Move 27. Bxf4 exf4: OK (exf4 and Bxf4 score the same)
r1b2rk1/p5q1/Pp1p1n2/1N1Pp1b1/1N2PB1p/R4P2/1P4P1/3BQRK1 b - - 0 27

25/59  02:00,554   10 128 841k  84 019k   0,00  27. ... Bxf4 28.Nxd6 Bg3 29.Qd2 Bf4 30.Qe1
25/59  02:00,554   10 128 841k  84 019k   0,00  27. ... exf4 28.Nxd6 h3 29.e5 Nh5 30.Nc6 Bf6 31.Qd2 Bxe5 32.Nxe5 h2+ 33.Kxh2 Qxe5 34.Nxc8 Ng3 35.Kg1 Raxc8 36.Re1 Qh5 37.Bb3 Rce8 38.d6+ Kg7 39.Qc3+ Kh6 40.Be6 Qh1+
25/59  02:00,554   10 128 841k  84 019k  -6,25  27. ... Bxa6 28.Nxd6 Bxf4 29.Nf5 Qg5 30.Nxa6 Bg3 31.Qe3 Bf4 32.Qf2 Bg3 33.Qc2 Nxd5 34.Qc4 Kh8 35.Qxd5 Rad8 36.f4 Bxf4 37.Qb3 Rxf5 38.exf5 Qxf5 39.Qf3 h3 40.Qxh3+ Qxh3 41.Rxh3+ Kg7

Move 28. Nxd6 h3: OK
23/75  01:04,150   5 615 849k  87 542k  +1,21  28. ... h3 29.e5 Nh5 30.Nc6 Ng3 31.Kh2 hxg2 32.Rg1 Qh7+ 33.Kxg2 Qh3+ 34.Kf2 Qh2+ 35.Rg2 Nh1+ 36.Qxh1 Qxh1 37.Rxg5+ Kh8 38.Ke2 Qh2+ 39.Kd3 Qxb2 40.Ra4 b5 41.Bc2 bxa4 42.Kd2 Rf5 43.Nxf5 Bxf5 44.Rh5+ Kg7 45.Rg5+ Kh6 46.Rxf5 Rg8 47.Rf6+ Kh5 48.Rf5+ Rg5 49.Rxg5+ Kxg5 50.d6 Qa2 51.Kc3 Qd5 52.Bxa4 Qxf3+ 53.Kc4 Qe2+

Move 29. e5 Nh5: OK
r1b2rk1/p5q1/Pp1N4/3PP1bn/1N3p2/R4P1p/1P4P1/3BQRK1 w - - 1 30

26/83  00:50,972   4 382 226k  85 973k  +1,25  29. ... Nh5 30.Nc6 Ng3 31.Kh2 hxg2 32.Rg1 Qh7+ 33.Kxg2 Bh3+ 34.Kf2 Bh4 35.Qc3 Qg6 36.Rxg3 Rae8 37.Nxe8 Qxg3+ 38.Ke2 Qf2+ 39.Kd3 Bf5+ 40.Kc4 Qf1+ 41.Kb4 Be1 42.Nd6 Bxc3+ 43.Rxc3 Qxd1 44.Ne7+ Kh7 45.Nexf5 Qxd5 46.Rc7+ Kh8 47.Ne7 Qa5+ 48.Kb3 Qxa6 49.Ng6+ Kg8 50.Nxf8 Qd3+ 51.Kb4 Kxf8 52.Rxa7 Qd4+ 53.Kb3 Qd5+ 54.Kc2 Qxf3 55.Rf7+ Kg8 56.Re7 Qe2+

Move 30. Nc6 Ng3: OK
r1b2rk1/p5q1/PpNN4/3PP1bn/5p2/R4P1p/1P4P1/3BQRK1 b - - 2 30

29/88  01:20,265   7 051 199k  87 848k  +1,69  30. ... Ng3 31.Kh2 hxg2 32.Rg1 Qh7+ 33.Kxg2 Bh3+ 34.Kf2 Bh4 35.Qc3 Qg6 36.Rxg3 Rae8 37.Nxe8 Qxg3+ 38.Ke2 Qf2+ 39.Kd3 Bf5+ 40.Kc4 Qf1+ 41.Kb4 Be1 42.Nd6 Bxc3+ 43.Rxc3 Qxd1 44.Ne7+ Kh7 45.Nexf5 Qxd5 46.Rc7+ Kh8 47.Ne7 Qd4+ 48.Kb3 Qd3+ 49.Kb4 Qd2+ 50.Ka4 Qa5+ 51.Kb3 Qxa6 52.Ng6+ Kg8 53.Rc4 Qa5 54.Kc2 Kg7 55.Nxf8 Qxe5 56.Re4 Qc5+ 57.Kb1 Qxd6 58.Ne6+ Kg8 59.Nd4 a5

Move 31. Kh2 hxg2: OK
r1b2rk1/p5q1/PpNN4/3PP1b1/5p2/R4Pnp/1P4PK/3BQR2 b - - 4 31

30/94  01:35,655   8 633 386k  90 255k  +1,84  31. ... hxg2 32.Rg1 Qh7+ 33.Kxg2 Bh3+ 34.Kf2 Bh4 35.Qc3 Qg6 36.Rxg3 Rae8 37.Nxe8 Qxg3+ 38.Ke2 Qg2+ 39.Kd3 Bf5+ 40.Kc4 Qf1+ 41.Kb4 Be1 42.Nd6 Bxc3+ 43.Rxc3 Qxd1 44.Ne7+ Kh7 45.Nexf5 Qxd5 46.Rc7+ Kh8 47.Ne7 Qa5+ 48.Kb3 Qxa6 49.Ng6+ Kg8 50.Rc4 Qa5 51.Kc2 Qe1 52.Nxf8 Qe2+ 53.Kc1 Qxe5 54.Ng6 Qe1+ 55.Kc2 Qe2+ 56.Kc3 Qxf3+ 57.Kb4 Qe2 58.Nxf4 Qd2+ 59.Kb3 Qxd6 60.Kc3 Qe5+

Move 32. Rg1 Qh6+: OK (really close between Qh6 and Qh7)
r1b2rk1/p5q1/PpNN4/3PP1b1/5p2/R4Pn1/1P4pK/3BQ1R1 b - - 1 32

27/90  01:13,387   6 837 022k  93 163k  +2,16  32. ... Qh6+ 33.Kxg2 Qh3+ 34.Kf2 Qh2+ 35.Rg2 Nh1+ 36.Qxh1 Qxh1 37.Rxg5+ Kh8 38.Rg1 Qh2+ 39.Rg2 Qh4+ 40.Ke2 Qh1 41.Rf2 Rg8 42.Nf7+ Kh7 43.Nd6 Rg1 44.Bc2+ Kg7 45.Kd2 Rg2 46.Rxg2+ Qxg2+ 47.Kc1 Qf1+ 48.Kd2 Bd7 49.Rd3 Qf2+ 50.Kc3 Qc5+ 51.Kb3 Bxc6 52.dxc6 Qxc6 53.Rd2 Qxf3+ 54.Ka2 Qf1 55.Bd3 Qh3 56.Bf5 Qe3 57.Rg2+ Kf8
27/90  01:13,387   6 837 022k  93 163k  +2,12  32. ... Qh7+ 33.Kxg2 Qh3+ 34.Kf2 Qh2+ 35.Rg2 Nh1+ 36.Qxh1 Qxh1 37.Rxg5+ Kh8 38.Ke2 Qh2+ 39.Kd3 Qxb2 40.Ra4 b5 41.Bc2 bxa4 42.Kd2 Bf5 43.Nxf5 Rxf5 44.Rxf5 a3 45.Rh5+ Kg8 46.Rg5+ Kf8 47.Rh5 a2 48.Rh8+ Kg7 49.Rh7+ Kg8 50.Ne7+ Kf8 51.Ng6+ Ke8 52.Rh8+ Kd7 53.Rh7+ Kd8 54.Rh8+ Kc7 55.Rh7+ Kb6 56.Rb7+ Ka5 57.Rxb2 a1Q 58.Rb3 Qd4+ 59.Ke2 Qc4+ 60.Kd2 Qxd5+ 61.Rd3 Qa2
27/90  01:13,387   6 837 022k  93 163k  +1,86  32. ... Qh8+ 33.Kxg2 Qh3+ 34.Kf2 Qh2+ 35.Rg2 Nh1+ 36.Qxh1 Qxh1 37.Rxg5+ Kh8 38.Rg1 Qh2+ 39.Rg2 Qh4+ 40.Ke2 Qh1 41.Rf2 Rg8 42.Nf7+ Kh7 43.Kd2 Rg1 44.Bc2+ Kg7 45.e6 Rg2 46.Rxg2+ Qxg2+ 47.Kc1 Qf1+ 48.Kd2 Bxa6 49.Rxa6 Qxa6 50.Be4 Qb5 51.Nfd8 Qxb2+ 52.Kd3 Qa3+ 53.Ke2 Qe3+ 54.Kf1 Rxd8 55.Nxd8 Kf8 56.Nc6 Qc1+ 57.Ke2 Qg1

Move 33. Kxg2 Bh3+: not OK (Bh3+ is second move)
r1b2rk1/p7/PpNN3q/3PP1b1/5p2/R4Pn1/1P4K1/3BQ1R1 b - - 0 33

25/90  02:41,435   13 932 718k  86 305k  +1,76  33. ... Qh3+ 34.Kf2 Qh2+ 35.Rg2 Nh1+ 36.Qxh1 Qxh1 37.Rxg5+ Kh8 38.Rg1 Qh2+ 39.Rg2 Qh4+ 40.Ke2 Qh1 41.Rf2 Rg8 42.Nf7+ Kg7 43.e6 Kf6 44.Nd6 Rg1 45.Ne4+ Kg7 46.Nc3 Bxe6 47.dxe6 Re1+ 48.Kd2 Rxe6 49.Nd4 Rd8 50.Ncb5 Re1 51.Bc2 Kf6 52.Re2 Rxe2+ 53.Kxe2 Qg2+ 54.Ke1 Qg1+ 55.Ke2 Rxd4 56.Nxd4 Qxd4 57.Rc3 Qb4 58.Rb3 Qc4+ 59.Kd2 Qd4+ 60.Kc1 Qg1+
25/90  02:41,435   13 932 718k  86 305k  +1,23  33. ... Bh3+ 34.Kf2 Bh4 35.Bc2 Qg5 36.Rc3 Qg7 37.Nd4 b5 38.Ne6 Nf1+ 39.Ke2 Qxg1 40.Bh7+ Kh8 41.Qxh4 Qh2+ 42.Qf2 Ng3+ 43.Ke1 Qh1+ 44.Kd2 Bxe6 45.Bd3 Bxd5 46.Rc7 Qxf3 47.Qxf3 Bxf3 48.Nf7+ Rxf7 49.Rxf7 Ne4+ 50.Ke1 Rc8 51.Bxe4 Bxe4 52.Rxa7 Rc1+ 53.Kf2 Rc2+ 54.Kf1 Rc6 55.Rf7 Rxa6
25/90  02:41,435   13 932 718k  86 305k  -1,15  33. ... Qg7 34.Ra4 b5 35.Rd4 Bd7 36.Rd2 Bh4 37.Kh2 Qh7 38.e6 Be7+ 39.Kg2 Bxc6 40.dxc6 Rf6 41.Nf7 Nf5 42.Ne5 Rg6+ 43.Nxg6 Ne3+ 44.Qxe3 fxe3 45.Rd5 Qxg6+ 46.Kh1 Qxg1+ 47.Kxg1 Rc8 48.c7 Rxc7 49.Kf1 Rc6 50.Bb3 Rxa6 51.Ke2 Kf8 52.Rf5+ Ke8

Let's summarize: from Move 19 to 33 Houdini 6 would play 12 out of 15 moves like Om.
The 3 other moves of Om were resp. second, second and third in a multi-PV analysis.
Not too shabby...
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-30 16:21
Move 23. hxg3 Qg7: not OK (Qg7 is 2nd move)

As per my analysis both had same score after minimax.
but I choose the Latter move just to steer my opponent to a different line which i had thoroughly analysed.
Parent - - By Stonehenge (***) Date 2017-09-30 19:50
Correct, Qg7 and fxg3 mostly transpose to the same lines, but Qg7 is probably trickier for the opponent.

Which move do you think lost White the game?
Already 24.Nb5? (when maybe Nc6 might have held?)
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-30 20:04
Correct, Qg7 and fxg3 mostly transpose to the same lines, but Qg7 is probably trickier for the opponent.

Yes Sir...

Which move do you think lost White the game?
Already 24.Nb5? (when maybe Nc6 might have held?)


22. Nb4 was the start of inaccuracy..
27.Bxf4?? was the blunder. 27, Nxd6 would have hold with one pawn down.
Parent - - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-30 16:33
Looks like with big hardware houdini does wonders :eek::eek::eek:

The Analysis U provided is eye opening.
Stockfish understand KID better. Komodo Sucks big time. Houdini is in intermediate side on my hardware. If u guide few moves it quickly sees the spark.
And I donot want to rely heavily on Stockfish and its clone family. Komodo is of no help. Like 30. Bh3 is supported by Asmfish around depth 45 over 3. Qh3
I used it on one of my games and only that (Komodo on default settings) and I lost it convincingly in just few moves.
Parent - - By Stonehenge (***) Date 2017-09-30 19:58
"Big hardware" has become relatively affordable.
An AMD Ryzen 1700 provides more than 20 MN/s and can be built in a system with 16 GB of RAM and an SSD for a total cost of less than 800 Euro.
A really good choice for chess.
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-09-30 20:06
Yes Sir. Was thinking of Ryzen Cpu. But for that i have to overwork like a donkey. Since am  a mere teacher and not born with a silver spoon in the mouth.

An AMD Ryzen 1700 provides more than 20 MN/s and can be built in a system with 16 GB of RAM and an SSD for a total cost of less than 800 Euro.

I will see if that rig is affordable for me. Let me see local store.
thanks for the suggestion sir.
Parent - - By darmar (**) [rs] Date 2017-09-30 20:56
Look my correspondence game vs Master Om 2012.
I would have won if I had Houdini 6 that year

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.10.01"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Darmar"]
[Black "Master Om"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "A57"]
[PlyCount "60"]
[EventDate "2012.??.??"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 b5 4. cxb5 a6 5. b6 g6 6. Nf3 Qxb6 7. Nc3 d6 8. Nd2
Bg7 9. e4 Nbd7 10. Be2 O-O 11. a4 Qb4 12. a5 Ne5 13. Ra4 Qb7 14. O-O Bd7 15.
Ra3 Qb4 16. f4 Nd3 17. Bxd3 Qd4+ 18. Kh1 Qxd3 19. Rf3 Qd4 20. Qf1 Bb5 21. Qe1
c4 22. Rf1 Qa7 23. Qh4 Qb7 24. f5 Rab8 25. Nf3 Bd7 26. Ng5 Qa7 27. Rf3 h6 28.
Nh3 Qd4 29. Ra1 h5 30. Be3 Qe5 *

Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-10-01 04:49
Hahahahahaha.

I would be glad to lose since u learn more from losing games than u win.
That game was well analysed sir. See the moves by black :cool:
Thank God H6 was not there :cool:
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2017-10-01 04:43 Edited 2017-10-01 05:26
An AMD Ryzen 1700 provides more than 20 MN/s and can be built in a system with 16 GB of RAM and an SSD for a total cost of less than 800 Euro.

Very interesting! I thought such a system would be far more expensive.

Do you recommend the normal 1700, or the 1700X?

Another question: how does power consumption compare between the Ryzen 1700 and my ancient Q6600 quad core? Is there a big difference?
Parent - By Master Om (Bronze) Date 2017-10-01 05:35
I think X is for those who overclock.
Parent - - By Stonehenge (***) Date 2017-10-01 10:23 Edited 2017-10-01 10:26
The 1700 has the better price/performance.

Ryzen 1700, 1700X and 1800X are exactly the same chip. Out of the box their clock and boost ability are different, but they're all overclockable and can in theory achieve the same speed (note that the higher series could be better silicon, binned for higher speeds). For chess you want all cores to be running full speed, which means that the boost ability ("XFR" in AMD speech) is irrelevant.

Power consumption is pretty good, definitely lower than a Q6600 if you don't overclock too high. Currently my Ryzen 1700 runs at 3.7 GHz, which is a reasonable compromise; I could reach 4.0 GHz but power consumption would be about 30% higher for only 8% better performance.
Parent - By Venator (Silver) [nl] Date 2017-10-01 11:09
Thanks for your reply, Robert!
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