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Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Test Positions / Does any strong program consider e3 better than b4?
- - By user923005 (****) [us] Date 2016-03-04 07:18
rnbqk2r/ppp1bppp/4pn2/8/2Pp4/5NP1/PP1PPPBP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq -


After a 40 ply search, Stockfish sticks doggedly to b4.  But e3 is played in practice, and the outcome is slanted strongly in white's favor (more than the 26 centipawn evaluation by Stockfish would indicate).

Opinions?
Parent - - By Peter Grayson (****) [gb] Date 2016-03-04 12:59
Interesting  analysis by Komodo 9.3 looking at both 1.b4 briefly and mainly e3 but also 1.a3 too before settling for 1.e3. It made me smile with this being just five moves into the opening, Komodo is already starting to access TB's at 38 ply! I noted that in current opening books 6.b4 is marked in preference to 6.e3. Very few games though so must be based on Stockfish assessment.

Peter

[Event "1.b4 or e3"]
[Site "Newport, South Wales"]
[Date "2016.03.04"]
[Round "Analysis"]
[White "Komodo 9.3"]
[Black "None"]
[Result "-"]
[PlyCount "-"]

1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 e6 4. O-O Be7 5. c4 d4 *

Analysis by Komodo 9.3 64-bit:

1.d3 Nc6 2.a3
  +/=  (0.33 ++)   Depth: 9   00:00:02  1953kN
1.d3 0-0
  +/=  (0.42 ++)   Depth: 9   00:00:02  1957kN
1.d3 0-0 2.a3 c5 3.Bf4 Nc6 4.Nbd2 Bd7 5.Ne5 Nxe5
  +/=  (0.42)   Depth: 9   00:00:02  1969kN
1.d3 0-0
  +/=  (0.34 --)   Depth: 10   00:00:02  1990kN
1.b3
  +/=  (0.35 --)   Depth: 10   00:00:02  1991kN
1.b3 Nc6
  =  (0.28 --)   Depth: 10   00:00:02  1999kN
1.b3 Nc6
  =  (0.17 --)   Depth: 10   00:00:02  2015kN
1.d3 0-0
  =  (0.18 --)   Depth: 10   00:00:02  2029kN
1.d3 0-0 2.Bf4
  =  (0.28 ++)   Depth: 10   00:00:02  2069kN
1.d3 Nc6
  =  (0.21 --)   Depth: 11   00:00:02  2129kN
1.e3 c5 2.exd4
  +/=  (0.35 ++)   Depth: 11   00:00:02  2203kN
1.e3 c5 2.exd4 cxd4 3.d3 Nc6 4.a3 0-0 5.b4 a6 6.Bf4 Ng4 7.Re1
  +/=  (0.32)   Depth: 11   00:00:02  2234kN
1.e3 c5 2.d3 Nc6 3.exd4 cxd4 4.a3 0-0 5.b4 a6 6.Bf4 Nd7 7.Qe2 h6
  +/=  (0.38)   Depth: 12   00:00:02  2330kN
1.e3 c5
  +/=  (0.31 --)   Depth: 13   00:00:02  2445kN
1.e3 d3
  =  (0.24 --)   Depth: 13   00:00:02  2642kN
1.e3 d3
  =  (0.14 --)   Depth: 13   00:00:02  2707kN
1.e3 d3 2.Ne1
  =  (0.22 ++)   Depth: 13   00:00:02  2838kN
1.e3 d3 2.Qb3
  =  (0.29 ++)   Depth: 14   00:00:02  3118kN
1.e3 d3 2.Qb3
  +/=  (0.36 ++)   Depth: 14   00:00:02  3211kN
1.e3 d3
  =  (0.29 --)   Depth: 14   00:00:02  3220kN
1.e3 c5 2.d3 Nc6 3.exd4 cxd4 4.a3 0-0 5.b4 Ng4 6.Nbd2 h6 7.c5 e5 8.h3 Nf6
  +/=  (0.31)   Depth: 14   00:00:02  3612kN
1.e3 d3
  =  (0.24 --)   Depth: 15   00:00:02  3688kN
1.e3 c5 2.exd4 cxd4 3.d3 Nc6 4.Bf4 Bd6 5.Bxd6 Qxd6 6.Nbd2 0-0 7.a3 e5 8.b4 Bf5 9.c5 Qc7
  =  (0.26)   Depth: 15   00:00:02  4076kN
1.e3 c5 2.d3 Nc6 3.exd4 cxd4 4.Bf4 Bd6 5.Bxd6 Qxd6 6.Re1 0-0 7.Qe2 Bd7 8.Nbd2 h6 9.Nb3 Rad8 10.Ne5 Nxe5 11.Qxe5
  =  (0.24)   Depth: 16   00:00:02  4925kN
1.e3 c5 2.exd4 cxd4 3.d3 Nc6 4.Bf4 Bd6 5.Bxd6 Qxd6 6.Qe2 0-0 7.Re1 Re8 8.Na3 a6 9.Ne5 Nxe5 10.Qxe5 Qxe5 11.Rxe5
  =  (0.20)   Depth: 17   00:00:02  5660kN
1.b4 0-0 2.Bb2 c5 3.d3 Nbd7 4.Nbd2 a5 5.b5 a4 6.a3 h6 7.e3 e5 8.Re1 Bd6 9.Rb1 dxe3 10.fxe3 Re8 11.Qe2
  =  (0.24)   Depth: 17   00:00:02  8041kN
1.b4 0-0
  =  (0.17 --)   Depth: 18   00:00:02  10673kN
1.b4 0-0 2.Bb2 c5 3.d3 Nbd7 4.Nbd2 a5 5.bxc5 e5 6.a4 Bxc5 7.Nb3 Bb4 8.Nfd2 Qb6 9.Rb1 Nc5 10.Nxc5 Qxc5 11.Nb3
  =  (0.18)   Depth: 18   00:00:03  13636kN
1.b4 0-0 2.Bb2 c5 3.d3 a5 4.b5 Nbd7 5.e3 e5 6.Nbd2 a4 7.Ba3 h6 8.Re1 Re8 9.Qc2 Ng4 10.h3 Ngf6
  =  (0.22)   Depth: 19   00:00:05  86579kN
1.b4 0-0 2.Bb2 c5 3.d3 a5 4.b5 Nbd7 5.e3 e5 6.Nbd2 a4 7.Ba3 h6 8.Re1 Re8 9.Qc2 Ng4 10.h3 Ngf6 11.exd4 exd4 12.Ne4
  =  (0.22)   Depth: 20   00:00:05  88697kN
1.b4 0-0 2.Bb2 c5 3.d3 a5 4.b5 Nbd7 5.e3 e5 6.Nbd2 a4 7.Ba3 h6 8.Re1 Re8 9.Qc2 Ra7 10.Re2 Bd6 11.exd4 exd4 12.Rxe8+ Nxe8 13.Re1
  =  (0.27)   Depth: 21   00:00:06  101MN
1.b4 0-0
  =  (0.20 --)   Depth: 22   00:00:06  106MN
1.b4 0-0 2.Bb2 c5 3.d3 a5 4.bxc5 Bxc5 5.Ba3 Bxa3 6.Nxa3 e5 7.Nb5 Nc6 8.c5 Qe7 9.Nd6 Ne8 10.Nc4 Nf6 11.Rc1 Nd5 12.Nb6 Nxb6
  =  (0.19)   Depth: 22   00:00:07  121MN
1.b4 0-0 2.Bb2 c5 3.d3 a5 4.bxc5 Bxc5 5.Ba3 Qe7 6.Bxc5 Qxc5 7.Nbd2 Nc6 8.Rb1 Qe7 9.Qa4 e5 10.Rb5 Rd8 11.h3 h6 12.Rfb1 e4 13.dxe4 Nxe4 14.Nxe4 Qxe4
  =  (0.13)   Depth: 23   00:00:09  144MN
1.e3 c5 2.d3
  =  (0.26 ++)   Depth: 23   00:00:11  172MN
1.e3 c5 2.exd4 cxd4 3.a3 d3 4.b4 0-0 5.Qb3 a5 6.Ne5 Qc7 7.Bb2 Nc6 8.Nxc6 bxc6 9.Qxd3 axb4 10.axb4 Rxa1 11.Bxa1 Bxb4 12.Bxf6 gxf6 13.Qf3 Ba6 14.Qxf6 Bxc4
  =  (0.26)   Depth: 23   00:00:16  245MN
1.e3 c5 2.b4
  +/=  (0.33 ++)   Depth: 24   00:00:19  283MN
1.e3 c5
  =  (0.26 --)   Depth: 24   00:00:19  284MN
1.e3 c5 2.d3 0-0 3.exd4 cxd4 4.Na3 Nc6 5.Nc2 e5 6.Re1 Nd7 7.Qe2 Bd6 8.Bd2 a5 9.a3 Nc5 10.b4 Nb3 11.c5 Nxa1 12.Nxa1 Be7 13.b5 Na7 14.a4 Bxc5 15.Nxe5
  =  (0.27)   Depth: 24   00:00:21  319MN
1.e3 c5 2.b4 dxe3 3.fxe3 cxb4 4.a3 Nc6 5.axb4 Bxb4 6.Ba3 0-0 7.d4 Bxa3 8.Nxa3 Ng4 9.Re1 e5 10.h3 Nf6 11.d5 e4 12.dxc6 exf3 13.Qxd8 Rxd8 14.Red1
  =  (0.27)   Depth: 25   00:00:24  366MN
1.e3 c5
  =  (0.20 --)   Depth: 26   00:00:30  455MN
1.e3 c5 2.a3
  =  (0.27 ++)   Depth: 26   00:00:43  641MN
1.e3 c5
  =  (0.20 --)   Depth: 27   00:00:45  663MN
1.e3 c5 2.d3 Nc6 3.Re1 e5 4.exd4 exd4 5.Bf4 0-0 6.Ne5 Nxe5 7.Bxe5 h6 8.Nd2 Ng4 9.Nf3 Bd6 10.Bxd6 Qxd6 11.h3 Nf6 12.Ne5 Re8 13.f4 Rb8 14.Qa4 a6 15.a3 Be6 16.b4 Nd7 17.Nxd7
  =  (0.25)   Depth: 27   00:01:02  909MN
1.e3 c5
  =  (0.18 --)   Depth: 28   00:01:09  1002MN
1.e3 Nc6 2.exd4
  =  (0.25 ++)   Depth: 28   00:01:11  1037MN
1.e3 c5
  =  (0.18 --)   Depth: 29   00:01:35  1379MN
1.e3 c5 2.exd4
  =  (0.25 ++)   Depth: 29   00:01:43  1499MN
1.e3 c5
  =  (0.18 --)   Depth: 30   00:02:06  1859MN
1.e3 c5 2.exd4
  =  (0.25 ++)   Depth: 30   00:02:22  2108MN
1.e3 c5
  =  (0.18 --)   Depth: 31   00:02:43  2424MN
1.e3 c5 2.exd4
  =  (0.25 ++)   Depth: 31   00:03:22  3041MN
1.e3 c5
  =  (0.18 --)   Depth: 32   00:03:42  3369MN
1.a3 c5 2.e3 0-0 3.exd4 cxd4 4.b4 a5 5.Bb2 axb4 6.Bxd4 bxa3 7.Bb2 Nc6 8.Nxa3 Qd3 9.Ne1 Qd7 10.Nb5 Rxa1 11.Bxa1 e5 12.Nf3 e4 13.Ng5 Rd8 14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Nxe4 Qd3 16.Re1 Qxc4 17.Nbd6 Bxd6 18.Nxd6 Rxd6 19.Re8+ Kg7 20.Rxc8 Qb4
  =  (0.22)   Depth: 32   00:05:21  5043MN
1.a3 c5 2.e3 a5 3.exd4 cxd4 4.b4 axb4 5.Bb2 Nc6 6.axb4 Rxa1 7.Bxa1 Nxb4 8.Bxd4 Nc6 9.Be3 Qd3 10.Qa4 0-0 11.h3 Bd7 12.Nc3 Nd4 13.Qd1 Nxf3+ 14.Qxf3 Qxc4 15.Qxb7 h6 16.Rb1 Rd8 17.Qa7 Qd3 18.Bf1 Qd6 19.Rb7 Qa3 20.Bb6 Qxa7 21.Rxa7 Rc8 22.Bd4
  =  (0.26)   Depth: 33   00:07:00  6875MN
1.a3 c5 2.e3 a5 3.exd4 cxd4 4.b4 axb4 5.Bb2 Nc6 6.axb4 Rxa1 7.Bxa1 Nxb4 8.Bxd4 Nc6 9.Be3 Qd3 10.Qa4 0-0 11.h3 e5 12.Nc3 h6 13.Rd1 Be6 14.Rb1 Qd7 15.g4 Rd8 16.Qb5 e4 17.Ne1 Nd4 18.Qxd7 Rxd7 19.Nxe4 Nxe4 20.Bxe4 Bxc4 21.Rxb7 Rxb7
  =  (0.27)   Depth: 34   00:10:14  10614MN
1.a3 a5 2.e3 c5 3.exd4 cxd4 4.b4 axb4 5.Bb2 Nc6 6.axb4 Rxa1 7.Bxa1 Nxb4 8.Bxd4 Nc6 9.Be3 Qd3 10.Qa4 0-0 11.h3 Bd7 12.Nc3 Nd4 13.Qa7 Nxf3+ 14.Bxf3 Qxc4 15.Bxb7 Bd6 16.Ba6 Qb4 17.Rb1 Qa3 18.Bb7 Qxa7 19.Bxa7 e5 20.Kh2 Bf5 21.Re1 Bd3 22.Re3 Bc4 23.d3
  =  (0.27)   Depth: 35   00:13:40  14631MN
1.a3 a5 2.e3 c5 3.exd4 cxd4 4.b4 axb4 5.Bb2 Nc6 6.axb4 Rxa1 7.Bxa1 Nxb4 8.Bxd4 Nc6 9.Be3 Qd3 10.Qa4 0-0 11.h3 Bd7 12.Nc3 Nd4 13.Qa7 Nxf3+ 14.Bxf3 Qxc4 15.Bxb7 Bd6 16.Ba6 Qb4 17.Rb1 Qa3 18.Bb7 Qxa7 19.Bxa7 e5 20.Kh2 Bf5 21.Re1 Nd7 22.Nb5 Be7 23.Nd4
  =  (0.28)   Depth: 36   00:15:47  17176MN
1.a3 a5
  =  (0.21 --)   Depth: 37   00:16:13  17682MN
1.e3 c5 2.exd4 cxd4 3.a3 a5 4.b4 axb4 5.Bb2 Nc6 6.axb4 Rxa1 7.Bxa1 Nxb4 8.Bxd4 Nc6 9.Be3 Qd3 10.Qa4 0-0 11.h3 Bd7 12.Nc3 Nd4 13.Qa7 Nxf3+ 14.Bxf3 Qxc4 15.Bxb7 e5 16.Bg2 Rc8 17.Ra1 Qe6 18.Ra6 Bd6 19.Rb6 Qe7 20.Rb7 Qe6 21.Qa6 Bc5 22.Qxe6 Bxe6 23.Bxc5 Rxc5 24.Kf1 h6 25.Ke2 Rc8
  +/=  (0.31)   Depth: 37   00:23:28  26242MN
1.e3 c5
  =  (0.24 --)   Depth: 38   00:27:41  31304MN, tb=13
1.e3 c5 2.exd4
  +/=  (0.31 ++)   Depth: 38   00:32:41  37160MN, tb=15
1.e3 c5 2.a3 a5 3.exd4 cxd4 4.b4 axb4 5.Bb2 Nc6 6.axb4 Rxa1 7.Bxa1 Nxb4 8.Bxd4 Nc6 9.Be3 Qd3 10.Qa4 0-0 11.h3 Bd7 12.Nc3 Nd4 13.Qa7 Nxf3+ 14.Bxf3 Qxc4 15.Qxb7 h6 16.Ra1 Rd8 17.Bg2 Bd6 18.Qb6 Be7 19.Ra7 Rc8 20.Rb7 Bc5 21.Bxc5 Qxc5 22.Qxc5 Rxc5 23.Kh2 Kf8 24.Bf3
  =  (0.27)   Depth: 39   00:43:50  50360MN, tb=28
1.e3 c5
  =  (0.20 --)   Depth: 40   01:12:33  84382MN, tb=229
1.e3 c5 2.a3
  =  (0.27 ++)   Depth: 40   01:31:09  106206MN, tb=308
1.e3 c5
  =  (0.20 --)   Depth: 41   01:52:07  131072MN, tb=383
1.e3 c5 2.exd4
  =  (0.27 ++)   Depth: 41   02:15:29  158206MN, tb=437
1.e3 c5
  =  (0.20 --)   Depth: 42   02:34:01  180118MN, tb=538

(Grayson, Newport, South Wales 04.03.2016)
Parent - By user923005 (****) [us] Date 2016-03-04 21:03
Thanks very much for taking a look at this.
Seems like a very deep look by Komodo agrees with Stockfish.
Maybe I will give it a weekend with Houdini and see if anything turns up.
It is also possible that the proper response is often overlooked by many of the games in my database.
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Test Positions / Does any strong program consider e3 better than b4?

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