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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Worker' Day - May 1st
- - By Ugh (*****) [fr] Date 2015-05-01 12:01
On Worker's Day, May 1st - let's not forget who saved Europe from Nazi tyranny - The Red Army.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YGsuj7Df-E
Parent - - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2015-05-01 19:05 Edited 2015-05-01 19:10
What? You are out of your mind! George C, Scott  saved Europe from the Nazi's

Parent - - By Ugh (*****) [fr] Date 2015-05-01 19:32
He was a nazi, if you mean Patton.

Soviet Union lost 20 million souls defeating nazism. Germany has paid NO reparations for the damage and loss of life in Ukraine, Belarus and Russia itself.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2015-05-01 19:56
Let's not forget that Stalin had a pact with Hitler to divide up Poland. As you know, Stalin was so amazed that Hitler broke the pact, that he insisted on hearing the sounds of battle over the telephone...

Let's also not forget the millions that Stalin had killed off on his own initiative...
Parent - - By Ugh (*****) [fr] Date 2015-05-01 22:16
The Soviet Union was obviously going to be attacked by the "West" just as soon as the west raised another generation to fight with. Forced industrialisation of a VERY backwards economy was inevitable. The deaths following a victorious nazi genocide would have been way greater than the 20 million Soviet people that Hitler's armies managed to kill before their defeat at the hands of the Red Army.

The Russian western border with Germany is a flexible line, it moves historically from the Oder in Germany way back into Belarus and beyond. Poland has the misfortune of being in the way, so to speak. Actually it got to Paris at one point, but the Russians voluntarily removed themselves. Flat terrain of Northern Europe interspersed with rivers. Geopolitical problem. Invasion route.
Parent - - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2015-05-02 03:47
I have to bow out of this argument- my grandfather escaped Stalinist Russian in 1932 and was shot several times while doing so. There was no love for the communist in that house hold.
Parent - - By Ugh (*****) [fr] Date 2015-05-03 19:51
USA is full of refugee descendants, each with their own distorted view of history. Irish potato famine crowd being particularly nutty.
Parent - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2015-05-03 22:04
Stop trying to whitewash Stalin's reign of terror!

Ukrainian Famine was dreadful famine premeditated by the Soviet Union, headed by Joseph Stalin during 1932-1933, as a means to undermine the nationalistic pride of the Ukrainian people. It served to control and further oppress the Ukrainian people by denying them the basic vital essentials they needed to survive. The Ukrainian Famine is also known as Holodomor, meaning “death by hunger.”
Parent - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2015-05-03 23:35
Hey! It's May 3rd. or go into Cryo-sleep until next May Day! The Russian Rev is over the wall is down - Lenin is a mummy. Trotsky got it the Native American way-with a  ax.
Parent - - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2015-05-01 22:31
You mean he wanted to unify  the remnant of the Germany military with U.S forces to push back the Russian. Patton like Mac Arthur had the foresight to recognize a military advantage when he saw it. Eisenhower was too  much the politician.
Parent - By Ugh (*****) [fr] Date 2015-05-03 19:52
The Red Army would have walked all over Patton. American Army was no big deal and only able to invade alongside the Brits because the Red Army had already done all the hard work.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2015-05-01 19:36
Let's not forget who saved Europe from the Red Army...the United States!
Parent - - By Ugh (*****) [fr] Date 2015-05-01 19:53
They saved Europe for Coca-cola. They stood by while the Greek Resistance was crushed. They failed to liberate Fanco's fascist Spain, a nazi ally and supplier, and ally in the start of WW2, Spain Civil War 36-39, despite French 2nd Armoured  division, composed of many Spanish Republicans, ready, waiting, will and expecting to be turned westwards into Spain. Meanwhile USA crippled the UK extracting every last bit of loan and assistance. USA was looking after itself.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2015-05-01 20:07

> They saved Europe for Coca-cola.


Pffft.  They saved Europe because a world in which Stalin, the biggest killer or his own people in world history up to his time, marches all the way to the Atlantic, killing or taking over everyone in his path, would be a horrible world indeed.

> They stood by while the Greek Resistance was crushed.


As did everyone else.  In such a horrible war, you're looking for the quickest route to victory, without complications.

As for Spain, everyone was neutral concerning Spain except for the Soviets and the Nazis.

> Meanwhile USA crippled the UK extracting every last bit of loan and assistance.


A bit of hyperbole, don't you think?
Parent - - By Ugh (*****) [fr] Date 2015-05-01 20:26
what choice did the Soviet Union have but to launch a massive industrialisation or face genocidal anhilation from some form of nazism as soon as Germany had raised another generation to send to war? Or even an international attack, repeating the encirclement during the CIvil War (USA involved btw). The Stalin deaths are massively overestimated by anti-Soviet rightwing "historians" and pale into insignificance compared to deaths deliberately instigated by Hitler. 17 million poles including 6 million jews, 20 million russians, 8 million germans plus many more. Soviet losses were 20 million and would have been orders of magnitude more had the Red Army not prevailed.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2015-05-02 03:28

> The Stalin deaths are massively overestimated by anti-Soviet rightwing "historians" and pale into insignificance compared to deaths deliberately instigated by Hitler.


Stats must be "right-wing" if they result in realizations unfavorable to your worldview?  Then obviously it's no use reminding you that while 20 million Soviets died during WWII, nearly half of them were due to Stalin.  Stalin killed 6 million Jews, which is more than Hitler killed (5 million--this number is often overstated due to including other minorities).
Parent - - By Ugh (*****) [fr] Date 2015-05-03 19:56
Ah, creative rightwing nutjob statistics. Russian WW2 losses of 20 million, killed by Nazis, suddenly done by Stalin. Stop being silly and watch soem better TV shows for your information ;-)

News to me that Stalin killed 6mn Jews while Hitler killed only 5 mn. Rabid right wing lunatic statistics.
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2015-05-03 22:01
Yeah, statistics that you don't like are "creative rightwing nutjob statistics", just like statistics that Fischer doesn't like are "Jewish conspiracy statistics".  I never said that all 20 million Russian deaths were due to Stalin--but quite a lot were.  I will grant that many of the Jews that Stalin killed were probably after World War II, and more or less occurred "by and by" as part of his general purges instead of an attempt at ethnic cleansing.  Nonetheless, due to the fact that Stalin is responsible for such a huge number of deaths of his own people resulted in him killing more Jews than Hitler.  Pretty nice people, those Communists, eh?
Parent - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2015-05-02 03:35
I had to delete that post - by the off chance I didn't  want you offended.
Parent - By Dr.X (Gold) Date 2015-05-01 22:41
I haven't had a Coke in at least 30 or more years! - Used it in auto shop to take the paint off of cars!  Alcohol- Tripped my ass off drinking Ouzo one time- My staple is Coffee! :wink:
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Worker' Day - May 1st

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