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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Learning from Rybka's Losses...
- - By Priyanvada (***) Date 2008-01-07 04:34 Edited 2008-01-07 04:38
I think Authors can improve Rybka a still a  lot by learing lessons from Rybka's losses.

See below few examples...
Losing side is Rybka,...winning side is little irrerelavent
In All these positions Rybka Evaluates little or more wron for the losing side!

White to play...
(position after 29 moves)
1rb1R3/2p4k/2p2p2/p1bp3P/P7/5N2/2rB1PP1/4R1K1 w - - 0 30

the game went...
30. Rd8
Rc4 31. Ree8 Rb1+ 32. Kh2 Bf5 33. Rh8+ Kg7 34. h6+ Kf7 35. h7 Kg6 36. Rhf8 Kxh7
37. Rxf6 Kg7 38. Rxf5 Kg6 39. Rg5+ Kf6 40. Rh5 Bd6+ 41. g3 Rxa4 42. Bc3+ d4 43.
Nxd4 Rc4 44. Ne2+ Kf7 45. Rh7+ Kg6 46. Rg7+ Kf5 47. Re8 Rxc3 48. Nxc3 Rb2 49.
Ne4 Be5 50. Rg5+ Kxe4 51. Rexe5+ Kd4 52. Kg2 a4 53. Ra5 Kd3 54. Rxa4 Rb5 55. f4
c5 56. Re5 Rb4 57. Rxb4 cxb4 58. f5 b3 59. f6 Kd4 60. Re1 Kc3 61. f7 Kd2 62.
f8=Q Kxe1 63. Qf2+ Kd1 64. Qb2 c5 65. Kf3 c4 66. Ke3 c3 67. Qb1# 1-0

White to play...
(position after 23 moves)
3r3k/pbpr2p1/1p6/3n3p/3P1P1P/1QP3P1/PP6/4R1K1 w - - 1 24

the game went...
24. Qa4 {[%eval 21,20] [%emt 0:03:25]}
Nf6 {[%eval -158,22] [%emt 0:02:26]} 25. Qxa7 {[%eval 0,20] [%emt 0:00:36]} Ba8
{(Le4) [%eval -185,22] [%emt 0:02:26]} 26. Kf1 {
(Da4) [%eval -25,20] [%emt 0:05:38]} Be4 {[%eval -284,20] [%emt 0:02:26]} 27.
Qa6 {[%eval -29,20] [%emt 0:00:24]} c5 {(Ta8) [%eval -314,21] [%emt 0:02:26]}
28. Ke2 {(Dxb6) [%eval -69,19] [%emt 0:01:06]} cxd4 {
[%eval -338,21] [%emt 0:02:26]} 29. c4 {[%eval -105,20] [%emt 0:00:52]} b5 {
(Td6) [%eval -365,21] [%emt 0:02:26]} 30. Kd2 {[%eval -225,20] [%emt 0:03:52]}
Rc7 {[%eval -410,20] [%emt 0:02:26]} 31. Qa5 {
(c5) [%eval -298,19] [%emt 0:03:00]} Rdc8 {[%eval -512,21] [%emt 0:02:26]} 32.
Rxe4 {(Dxb5) [%eval -446,20] [%emt 0:02:20]} Nxe4+ {
[%eval -465,6] [%emt 0:00:00]} 33. Ke2 {(Kd3) [%eval -521,20] [%emt 0:01:52]}
Rc5 {[%eval -763,20] [%emt 0:02:44]} 34. Kf3 {
(cxb5) [%eval -703,18] [%emt 0:01:27]} bxc4 {[%eval -1197,21] [%emt 0:02:44]}

Black to play
(position after 18 moves)
r2qk2r/3n1ppp/b4n2/pN1Pp3/Pbp1P3/1p6/1P1NQPPP/RBB1K2R b KQkq - 5 18

the game went...
18. Nb5 {(Nf3) [%eval -22,22] [%emt 0:03:46]} c3
{(Bxb5) [%eval -107,21] [%emt 0:02:21]} 19. bxc3 {[%eval -38,21] [%emt 0:02:00]
} Bxc3 {[%eval -108,22] [%emt 0:03:41]} 20. Ra3 {[%eval -39,21] [%emt 0:01:03]}
Bxb5 {[%eval -130,21] [%emt 0:02:18]} 21. Qxb5 {
(axb5) [%eval -42,21] [%emt 0:03:37]} Rb8 {[%eval -134,20] [%emt 0:02:18]} 22.
Qd3 {[%eval -42,20] [%emt 0:00:35]} Bb4 {(Bxd2+) [%eval -80,21] [%emt 0:04:35]}
23. O-O {[%eval -41,19] [%emt 0:00:35]} Nc5 {[%eval -95,21] [%emt 0:02:10]} 24.
Qe2 {(Qe3) [%eval -34,20] [%emt 0:02:10]} O-O {[%eval -140,21] [%emt 0:02:10]}
25. Rxb3 {[%eval -42,20] [%emt 0:01:10]} Nxb3 {[%eval -112,22] [%emt 0:04:20]}
26. Nxb3 {[%eval -38,19] [%emt 0:00:00]} Bc3 {[%eval -112,20] [%emt 0:05:03]}
27. Nd2 {[%eval -40,21] [%emt 0:03:20]} Qd7 {[%eval -58,20] [%emt 0:03:37]} 28.
Bc2 {[%eval -56,20] [%emt 0:02:12]} Bxd2 {[%eval -104,20] [%emt 0:01:40]} 29.
Bxd2 {[%eval -61,23] [%emt 0:02:17]} Rfc8 {[%eval -117,22] [%emt 0:01:40]} 30.
Bd1 {[%eval -63,23] [%emt 0:03:27]} Qa7 {(Qc7) [%eval -113,22] [%emt 0:01:40]}
31. Bg5 {(Qd3) [%eval -63,20] [%emt 0:02:21]} Qb6 {
[%eval -122,19] [%emt 0:01:40]} 32. Re1 {(Qd3) [%eval -76,21] [%emt 0:04:58]}
Ne8 {[%eval -150,19] [%emt 0:01:40]} 33. Be3 {
(Qd3) [%eval -79,20] [%emt 0:01:53]} Qb4 {[%eval -143,20] [%emt 0:01:40]} 34.
f3 {(Bd2) [%eval -99,22] [%emt 0:03:59]} Nd6 {[%eval -151,21] [%emt 0:01:40]}
35. Ba7 {(Bf2) [%eval -99,22] [%emt 0:02:40]} Rb7 {
[%eval -154,21] [%emt 0:01:40]} 36. Bf2 {[%eval -102,21] [%emt 0:01:41]} Nc4 {
[%eval -139,20] [%emt 0:01:40]} 37. Qf1 {[%eval -102,21] [%emt 0:01:53]} Qd6 {
(Qc3) [%eval -139,19] [%emt 0:01:41]} 38. Bg3 {[%eval -91,18] [%emt 0:01:45]}
Rb2 {(Rb1) [%eval -131,19] [%emt 0:01:41]} 39. h3 {
(Kh1) [%eval -102,18] [%emt 0:01:21]} f5 {(Qc5+) [%eval -172,18] [%emt 0:01:41]
} 40. exf5 {(Kh1) [%eval -108,18] [%emt 0:00:51]} Qxd5 {
[%eval -148,20] [%emt 0:01:42]} 41. Kh1 {(Kh2) [%eval -104,18] [%emt 0:01:28]}
Re8 {(Qd2) [%eval -185,19] [%emt 0:02:00]} 42. Kh2 {
(Bh2) [%eval -102,19] [%emt 0:02:47]} Rf8 {[%eval -162,20] [%emt 0:02:00]} 43.
Re2 {[%eval -108,19] [%emt 0:00:32]} Rb1 {(Rfb8) [%eval -168,22] [%emt 0:02:00]
} 44. Re1 {[%eval -87,14] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rxd1 {
(Rxf5) [%eval -158,23] [%emt 0:02:00]} 45. Rxd1 {[%eval -99,15] [%emt 0:00:00]}
Ne3 {[%eval -173,26] [%emt 0:02:00]} 46. Rxd5 {[%eval -102,25] [%emt 0:01:01]}
Nxf1+ {[%eval -168,26] [%emt 0:02:00]} 47. Kg1 {[%eval -99,26] [%emt 0:01:34]}
Nxg3 {[%eval -176,25] [%emt 0:02:00]} 48. Kf2 {[%eval -99,26] [%emt 0:01:59]}
Nxf5 {[%eval -175,24] [%emt 0:02:00]} 49. Rxe5 {[%eval -99,26] [%emt 0:02:43]}
g6 {[%eval -174,22] [%emt 0:02:00]} 50. Rxa5 {[%eval -101,25] [%emt 0:02:47]}
Rb8 {(Rc8) [%eval -172,21] [%emt 0:02:00]} 51. f4 {
[%eval -115,22] [%emt 0:03:29]} Rb4 {(Rb2+) [%eval -186,21] [%emt 0:02:00]} 52.
Kf3 {[%eval -117,22] [%emt 0:01:39]} Rb3+ {[%eval -185,20] [%emt 0:02:00]} 53.
Ke2 {(Kf2) [%eval -117,21] [%emt 0:02:16]} h5 {
(Ne7) [%eval -203,19] [%emt 0:02:00]} 54. Ra8+ {
(Kf2) [%eval -125,22] [%emt 0:01:54]} Kg7 {(Kf7) [%eval -218,20] [%emt 0:02:00]
} 55. a5 {(Ra7+) [%eval -175,23] [%emt 0:04:23]} Nd4+ {
[%eval -241,20] [%emt 0:02:00]} 56. Kd2 {[%eval -176,25] [%emt 0:03:24]} Ra3 {
[%eval -255,21] [%emt 0:02:00]} 57. a6 {[%eval -178,24] [%emt 0:02:27]} Ne6 {
[%eval -258,21] [%emt 0:02:00]} 58. Kc1 {(Kc2) [%eval -176,23] [%emt 0:02:04]}
h4 {(Kf6) [%eval -281,22] [%emt 0:02:00]} 59. Kb2 {
(a7) [%eval -210,24] [%emt 0:01:40]} Ra4 {[%eval -296,23] [%emt 0:02:00]} 60.
a7 {(Ra7+) [%eval -224,23] [%emt 0:01:19]} Kf6 {[%eval -336,23] [%emt 0:02:01]}
61. Kb3 {[%eval -268,24] [%emt 0:01:02]} Ra6 {[%eval -347,22] [%emt 0:00:25]}
62. Kc3 {(Kc2) [%eval -268,24] [%emt 0:01:13]} Kf5 {
[%eval -347,21] [%emt 0:00:25]} 63. Kb3 {(Kd2) [%eval -275,22] [%emt 0:02:11]}
Kxf4 {[%eval -402,19] [%emt 0:00:25]} 64. Rg8 {
(Re8) [%eval -400,22] [%emt 0:01:02]} Rxa7 {[%eval -563,20] [%emt 0:00:26]} 65.
Rxg6 {[%eval -406,22] [%emt 0:00:13]} Ng5 {[%eval -608,20] [%emt 0:00:26]} 66.
Kb2 {(Rg8) [%eval -406,23] [%emt 0:00:58]} Re7 {[%eval -645,19] [%emt 0:00:26]}
67. Kc3 {[%eval -426,24] [%emt 0:03:48]} Re2 {
(Re6) [%eval -671,19] [%emt 0:00:26]} 68. Rh6 {
(Rg8) [%eval -475,24] [%emt 0:02:57]} Kg3 {[%eval -786,20] [%emt 0:00:26]} 69.
Rg6 {(Kd3) [%eval -488,24] [%emt 0:02:17]} Rxg2 {
(Re5) [%eval -1077,16] [%emt 0:00:25]} 70. Rxg5+ {
(Kb3) [%eval -32737,20] [%emt 0:01:53]} Kxh3 {[%eval -32738,4] [%emt 0:00:00]}
71. Rd5 {(Re5) [%eval -32739,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rg4 {
[%eval -32739,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 72. Rd1 {[%eval -32740,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kh2
{[%eval -32740,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 73. Rd2+ {[%eval -32740,1] [%emt 0:00:00]}
Rg2 {[%eval -32741,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 74. Rd4 {[%eval -32742,1] [%emt 0:00:00]}
h3 {[%eval -32742,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 75. Rd1 {[%eval -32742,1] [%emt 0:00:00]}
Kg3 {[%eval -32743,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 76. Rd3+ {[%eval -32743,1] [%emt 0:00:00]
} Kh4 {[%eval -32744,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 77. Rd4+ {
[%eval -32745,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rg4 {[%eval -32745,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 78. Rd2
{[%eval -32745,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rf4 {[%eval -32746,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 79. Kd3
{[%eval -32747,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kg3 {[%eval -32747,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 80. Rd1
{[%eval -32748,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} h2 {[%eval -32748,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 81. Re1
{[%eval -32748,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rg4 {[%eval -32749,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 82.
Re3+ {[%eval -32750,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kf4 {[%eval -32750,1] [%emt 0:00:00]}
83. Re1 {[%eval -32750,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rg1 {[%eval -32751,1] [%emt 0:00:00]}
84. Re4+ {[%eval -32751,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kf5 {[%eval -32752,1] [%emt 0:00:00]
} 85. Rh4 {[%eval -32752,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} h1=Q {
[%eval -32753,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 86. Rxh1 {[%eval -32753,1] [%emt 0:00:00]}
Rxh1 {[%eval -32754,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 87. Kc4 {[%eval -32755,1] [%emt 0:00:00]
} Ke4 {[%eval -32755,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 88. Kc5 {
[%eval -32755,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd1 {[%eval -32756,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 89. Kc6
{[%eval -32757,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rd5 {[%eval -32757,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 90. Kb6
{[%eval -32758,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kd4 {[%eval -32758,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 91. Kc6
{[%eval -32758,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kc4 {[%eval -32759,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 92. Kb6
{[%eval -32759,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rc5 {[%eval -32760,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 93. Ka6
{[%eval -32760,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rb5 {[%eval -32761,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 94. Ka7
{[%eval -32761,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rb4 {[%eval -32762,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 95. Ka6
{[%eval -32763,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kc5 {[%eval -32763,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 96. Ka7
{[%eval -32764,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kc6 {[%eval -32764,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 97. Ka8
{[%eval -32764,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kc7 {[%eval -32765,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 98. Ka7
{[%eval -32765,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Ra4# {[%eval -32766,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 0-1

(Position after 13 moves)
white to play...
rn2k2r/p3b1pp/bppqpp2/8/2pP1N2/1PN3P1/P3PPBP/R2Q1RK1 w kq - 2 14

the game went...
14. d5
{(bxc4) [%eval 85,19] [%emt 0:02:35]} exd5 {[%eval 23,17] [%emt 0:03:38]} 15.
e4 {(Sfxd5) [%eval 162,18] [%emt 0:02:35]} d4 {
(0-0) [%eval 47,18] [%emt 0:02:28]} 16. Qh5+ {[%eval 121,19] [%emt 0:05:09]}
Kd8 {[%eval 65,19] [%emt 0:02:28]} 17. Rad1 {
(Tfd1) [%eval 145,20] [%emt 0:06:03]} d3 {[%eval 86,19] [%emt 0:04:17]} 18.
bxc4 {[%eval 197,19] [%emt 0:02:19]} Bxc4 {[%eval 77,19] [%emt 0:00:28]} 19.
Nxd3 {[%eval 175,20] [%emt 0:02:19]} Bxd3 {[%eval 106,21] [%emt 0:02:03]} 20.
e5 {[%eval 164,22] [%emt 0:02:56]} fxe5 {[%eval 88,22] [%emt 0:03:44]} 21. Rxd3
{[%eval 190,22] [%emt 0:02:17]} Qxd3 {[%eval 112,23] [%emt 0:01:02]} 22. Rd1 {
[%eval 153,23] [%emt 0:03:07]} Qd7 {[%eval 108,22] [%emt 0:01:15]} 23. Rxd7+ {
[%eval 137,21] [%emt 0:02:14]} Nxd7 {[%eval 120,23] [%emt 0:00:53]} 24. Bxc6 {
[%eval 148,22] [%emt 0:02:14]} Rc8 {[%eval 163,22] [%emt 0:01:48]} 25. Qf3 {
[%eval 159,22] [%emt 0:02:14]} Nf6 {(Ld6) [%eval 142,22] [%emt 0:01:53]} 26.
Nb5 {[%eval 153,19] [%emt 0:02:14]} Bc5 {[%eval 155,21] [%emt 0:00:47]} 27. Bb7
{[%eval 155,20] [%emt 0:02:14]} e4 {[%eval 154,21] [%emt 0:01:17]} 28. Qf4 {
[%eval 187,20] [%emt 0:02:14]} Ke7 {[%eval 175,20] [%emt 0:01:21]} 29. Nxa7 {
(Lxc8) [%eval 163,19] [%emt 0:02:21]} Rce8 {[%eval 141,21] [%emt 0:02:54]} 30.
Ba6 {(Dc7+) [%eval 151,19] [%emt 0:02:13]} e3 {
(Kf8) [%eval 95,21] [%emt 0:02:52]} 31. fxe3 {[%eval 166,20] [%emt 0:02:14]}
Kf8 {[%eval 98,21] [%emt 0:01:01]} 32. Qf5 {(Kg2) [%eval 142,21] [%emt 0:02:14]
} Rxe3 {[%eval 82,22] [%emt 0:02:31]} 33. Kg2 {[%eval 142,21] [%emt 0:02:13]}
h5 {(Ta3) [%eval 98,23] [%emt 0:04:08]} 34. Nc6 {[%eval 172,19] [%emt 0:02:13]}
h4 {[%eval 72,22] [%emt 0:02:18]} 35. Ne5 {[%eval 159,20] [%emt 0:02:14]} Rh5 {
[%eval 73,21] [%emt 0:01:00]} 36. Ng6+ {[%eval 182,20] [%emt 0:02:13]} Ke8 {
[%eval 66,20] [%emt 0:00:00]} 37. Bb5+ {[%eval 181,20] [%emt 0:02:14]} Kd8 {
[%eval 66,19] [%emt 0:00:00]} 38. Qf4 {[%eval 190,20] [%emt 0:02:13]} Kc8 {
(h3+) [%eval 77,20] [%emt 0:01:49]} 39. Ba6+ {
(Sxh4) [%eval 178,18] [%emt 0:02:14]} Kd7 {[%eval 69,19] [%emt 0:00:00]} 40.
Nxh4 {[%eval 203,18] [%emt 0:02:14]} Rc3 {(Te4) [%eval 78,20] [%emt 0:03:48]}
41. Qa4+ {[%eval 218,17] [%emt 0:02:00]} Kd6 {[%eval 109,20] [%emt 0:03:52]}
42. Bb7 {[%eval 218,17] [%emt 0:02:00]} Ra3 {
(Ke7) [%eval 110,21] [%emt 0:02:46]} 43. Qf4+ {
(Dc6+) [%eval 216,19] [%emt 0:02:00]} Kd7 {(Ke7) [%eval 99,22] [%emt 0:01:41]}
44. Qc4 {[%eval 217,19] [%emt 0:02:00]} Kc7 {(Kd8) [%eval 99,21] [%emt 0:00:59]
} 45. Qf7+ {[%eval 230,21] [%emt 0:02:00]} Kb8 {[%eval 102,22] [%emt 0:00:54]}
46. Bf3 {[%eval 239,22] [%emt 0:02:00]} Ra7 {[%eval 101,22] [%emt 0:00:43]} 47.
Qc4 {(Lxh5) [%eval 243,21] [%emt 0:02:00]} Rh8 {
(Te5) [%eval 103,22] [%emt 0:03:16]} 48. Qf4+ {[%eval 209,19] [%emt 0:02:00]}
Kc8 {[%eval 103,22] [%emt 0:01:00]} 49. a4 {[%eval 205,19] [%emt 0:02:00]} Rd8
{[%eval 134,21] [%emt 0:02:56]} 50. Kh3 {(Sf5) [%eval 214,19] [%emt 0:02:00]}
Rh8 {(Tc7) [%eval 83,21] [%emt 0:04:01]} 51. Qg5 {[%eval 204,19] [%emt 0:02:00]
} Rc7 {[%eval 88,21] [%emt 0:02:46]} 52. Kg2 {[%eval 198,20] [%emt 0:02:00]}
Rd8 {[%eval 90,20] [%emt 0:00:39]} 53. Ng6 {(Sf5) [%eval 194,19] [%emt 0:02:00]
} Rd6 {(Kb8) [%eval 114,20] [%emt 0:03:52]} 54. h4 {
(Df5+) [%eval 238,19] [%emt 0:02:00]} Kb8 {(Td4) [%eval 115,19] [%emt 0:03:54]}
55. Kh3 {(h5) [%eval 259,20] [%emt 0:02:00]} Ka7 {[%eval 171,21] [%emt 0:03:59]
} 56. h5 {[%eval 279,21] [%emt 0:02:00]} Bg1 {
(Td3) [%eval 276,20] [%emt 0:04:19]} 57. Nh4 {
(g4) [%eval 356,19] [%emt 0:02:00]} Bc5 {[%eval 233,21] [%emt 0:03:22]} 58. Qe5
{(Sf5) [%eval 366,20] [%emt 0:02:00]} Rdd7 {[%eval 273,21] [%emt 0:02:37]} 59.
Nf5 {[%eval 414,20] [%emt 0:02:00]} Nh7 {[%eval 276,21] [%emt 0:02:03]} 60. Bg2
{(Kh4) [%eval 401,20] [%emt 0:02:00]} Ng5+ {[%eval 293,18] [%emt 0:01:37]} 61.
Kh2 {[%eval 441,20] [%emt 0:00:30]} Nf7 {[%eval 305,18] [%emt 0:00:55]} 62.
Qxg7 {[%eval 458,19] [%emt 0:00:22]} Ka6 {(Sd6) [%eval 304,18] [%emt 0:00:07]}
63. Qb2 {[%eval 499,18] [%emt 0:00:22]} Ka7 {[%eval 314,17] [%emt 0:00:09]} 64.
Qb5 {[%eval 547,20] [%emt 0:00:22]} Nd8 {(Sd6) [%eval 347,19] [%emt 0:00:43]}
65. a5 {(h6) [%eval 590,18] [%emt 0:00:21]} Nb7 {[%eval 364,17] [%emt 0:00:15]}
66. axb6+ {[%eval 609,17] [%emt 0:00:21]} Bxb6 {[%eval 329,16] [%emt 0:00:00]}
67. h6 {[%eval 628,18] [%emt 0:00:20]} Rd8 {(Td2) [%eval 389,17] [%emt 0:00:34]
} 68. Kh3 {[%eval 626,16] [%emt 0:00:19]} Rc5 {
(Td2) [%eval 416,17] [%emt 0:00:28]} 69. Qa4+ {
(Db1) [%eval 627,16] [%emt 0:00:19]} Na5 {[%eval 446,16] [%emt 0:00:23]} 70.
Qg4 {(De4) [%eval 627,16] [%emt 0:00:19]} Rc7 {[%eval 488,17] [%emt 0:00:26]}
71. Qe4 {[%eval 641,16] [%emt 0:00:18]} Rh8 {
(Sb7) [%eval 491,16] [%emt 0:01:06]} 72. g4 {[%eval 697,16] [%emt 0:00:18]} 1-0
Parent - - By Priyanvada (***) Date 2008-01-08 04:51
Will anybody tell in the following situation...
can Rybka find out the shot 14.d5!

???
rn2k2r/p3b1pp/bppqpp2/8/2pP1N2/1PN3P1/P3PPBP/R2Q1RK1 w kq - 2 14


Whats Rybka's openion???
Parent - - By maxrom (***) Date 2008-01-10 13:52
I don't know I have no rybka, can anyone check this who habe rybka ?
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2008-01-10 15:42
Neue Partie - Rybka 2.3.2a mp 32-bit

Analysis by Rybka 2.3.2a mp 32-bit :

14.bxc4 Lxc4 15.Se4 Dd7 16.Sd2 La6
  +/=  (0.28)   Tiefe: 9   00:00:00  1kN
14.bxc4 Lxc4 15.Se4 Dd7 16.Sd2 La6
  +/=  (0.28)   Tiefe: 9   00:00:00  1kN
14.bxc4 Lxc4 15.Se4 Dd7 16.Sd2 La6 17.Db3
  +/=  (0.26)   Tiefe: 9   00:00:00  23kN
14.bxc4 Lxc4 15.Se4 Dd7 16.Sd2 La6 17.Db3 Lc8
  +/=  (0.31)   Tiefe: 10   00:00:00  96kN
14.bxc4 Lxc4 15.Se4 Dd7 16.Sd2 La6 17.Db3 Lc8 18.Tad1
  +/=  (0.27)   Tiefe: 11   00:00:01  256kN
14.bxc4 Lxc4 15.Se4 Dd7 16.Sd2 La6 17.Db3 Lc8 18.Tac1 0-0
  =  (0.22)   Tiefe: 12   00:00:04  623kN
14.bxc4 Lxc4 15.Se4 Dd7 16.Sd2 La6 17.Db3 Lc8 18.Tad1 Ld6 19.Df3
  =  (0.22)   Tiefe: 13   00:00:09  1268kN
14.bxc4 Lxc4 15.Se4 Dd7 16.Sd2 La6 17.Db3 Lc8 18.Tad1 Ld6 19.Df3 0-0
  =  (0.23)   Tiefe: 14   00:00:14  2049kN
14.bxc4 Lxc4 15.Se4 Dd7 16.Sd2 La6 17.Db3 Lc8 18.Tad1 Ld6 19.De3 0-0 20.Sc4
  =  (0.16)   Tiefe: 15   00:00:26  3727kN
14.bxc4 Lxc4 15.Se4 Dd7 16.Sd2 La6 17.Db3 Lc8 18.Tfd1 g5 19.Sh5 0-0 20.Sc4 Sa6
  =  (0.12)   Tiefe: 16   00:04:25  33946kN
14.d5 exd5 15.Sfxd5 0-0 16.Dc2 cxb3 17.axb3 Lb7 18.Sf4 De5 19.Sd3 Dg5 20.Tfd1 Td8
  =  (0.20)   Tiefe: 16   00:05:05  39030kN
14.d5 exd5 15.Sfxd5 0-0 16.Dc2 cxb3 17.axb3 Lb7 18.Sf4 De5 19.Sd3 Dh5 20.Lf3 Df7
  =  (0.16)   Tiefe: 17   00:06:08  47181kN
14.d5 exd5 15.Sfxd5 0-0 16.Dc2 cxb3 17.axb3 Lb7 18.Sf4 De5 19.Sd3 Dh5 20.Lf3 Df7
  =  (0.15)   Tiefe: 18   00:08:36  66637kN
14.bxc4 Lxc4 15.Se4 Dd7 16.Sd2 La6 17.Db3 Lc8 18.d5 exd5 19.Sxd5 cxd5 20.Dxd5 Sc6
  +/=  (0.35)   Tiefe: 18   00:10:38  81225kN
14.bxc4 Lxc4 15.Tc1 Dd7 16.d5 exd5 17.Scxd5 b5 18.a4 Lxd5 19.Sxd5 a6 20.Sb6 Dxd1
  +/=  (0.31)   Tiefe: 19   00:16:01  119mN
14.bxc4 Lxc4 15.Tc1 Dd7 16.d5 exd5 17.Scxd5 b5 18.a4 Lxd5 19.Sxd5 a6 20.Sb6 Dxd1
  +/=  (0.32)   Tiefe: 20   00:21:47  163mN
14.bxc4 Lxc4 15.Tc1 Dd7 16.d5 exd5 17.Scxd5 b5 18.a4 Lxd5 19.Sxd5 a6 20.Sb6 Dxd1
  +/=  (0.26)   Tiefe: 21   00:34:06  260mN
Parent - - By Kedar (*) Date 2008-01-10 17:13 Edited 2008-01-10 17:16
Hello,

my RYBKA 2.3.2a 32bit found out the shot 14.d5! in 6 minutes during the 10 min correspondence analyses mode. This is the best move accordind to the program, then follows 14.bxc4, 14.h4, 14.Rc1, 14.Ne4.

Settings:  256 MB hash, other parameters default.
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2008-01-10 17:29
But she wouldn´t hold the move 14. d5! (see my analysis above), because she don´t see 15. e4!!.
Parent - - By Kingmdm (*) Date 2008-01-11 06:02

> my RYBKA 2.3.2a 32bit found out the shot 14.d5! in 6 minutes during the 10 min correspondence analyses mode. This is the best move accordind to the program, then follows 14.bxc4, 14.h4, 14.Rc1, 14.Ne4.
>
> Settings:  256 MB hash, other parameters default.


Hmm, my Rybka 2.3.2a64 has not found d5 after running for 30+mins.  What is correspondence analyses mode?  How do you turn that on?  I simply infinite analysis on.
Parent - By Kedar (*) Date 2008-01-11 14:29

> What is correspondence analyses mode? How do you turn that on?


I use Fritz 8 GUI and the corr mode can be set under the program.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2008-01-11 22:37
It must be "Deep Position Analysis." as the descriptions sound similar.
Parent - - By FirebrandX (**) Date 2008-01-12 00:39
The trick is to increase the number of search lines. If you try infinite analysis with the default single line, you could be waiting for hours and it may not find d5. However, increasing the lines to 5 for example, allows Rybka to find d5 quite quickly. I tried it on my backup computer, a 4-year-old Sony Vaio, and it found d5 in 15 minutes at 50 kN/s using the 5-line search method.
Parent - By Kedar (*) Date 2008-01-12 12:20

> The trick is to increase the number of search lines.


Everytime I let the engine run infinitive analyses with 11 search lines and still it wasn't able to find the move 1.d5 before 49 mins 15 secs of searching time. More, the line with 1.d5 droped down from the 1st place to 4th -5th place after some 2 minutes and returned back to the final 1st place in next 8 mins.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) Date 2008-01-10 17:55

> can Rybka find out the shot 14.d5!


Yes, but it may take a while. In my case it took about 2 hours.
Parent - By Kedar (*) Date 2008-01-10 23:00

> Yes, but it may take a while. In my case it took about 2 hours.


I let my program searching for that move just 10 minutes for I assume this position occured in a real game. In that case I don't think that white had enough time to spend 2 hours searching for the right move.
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2008-01-11 14:56
Lest me guess: in your case it´s x64 and 8 cores, right?
Parent - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) Date 2008-01-11 16:33
That's about right, if I'm counting correctly :)
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2008-01-11 14:54
Can you say us, which engine was white in this game? Great engine!
Parent - - By Kedar (*) Date 2008-01-11 18:38
Well, I have to say now that it doesn't seem so clear to me right now about finding out the move 14.d5 in a reasonable time.

The situation is like this: when i start infinite analyses, the engine doesn't see the move 14.d5 at all for about 30 mins and maybe even more. At this point I have to admit that finding out the right move is not possible in 10 minutes, so you all are right and I am sorry to say this. But still, when I run the correspondence mode in FRITZ program and let the engine analyse the position, it chooses 5 candidate moves to be analysed further - it is called branching. After 600 seconds the engine displays the candidate moves and 1.d5 is on the 1st place - I have tried that out several times. When I look at this I assume, that the engine have chosen the 5 best moves to be analysed further. If the move 1.d5 is repeatedly on the 1st place, maybe the engine thinks that it is the best move and it worth to be analysed prior to the other moves. Of course, I don't know if this is the right hyphothesis, but it is the fact. Surely the engine cannot know at this point if the move 1.d5 is the best out of the other chosen moves, but it seems to me that the engine has a function called "intuition" built in :-). Maybe it would be interesting to ask Vas about it.

I have the latest version of RYBKA and use a single core system.
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2008-01-12 10:00
In some positions, asking for the five best moves to be analyzed will give you a better first move than if you just ask for the one best move to be analyzed. Rybka spends more time in this case on moves 2-5 and may end up deciding that one of them is better.

On average, of course, asking for just one best move is the most efficient way to get a best move.

Vas
Parent - - By Kedar (*) Date 2008-01-12 12:47
Of course you are right and my feelings are the same. Still it comes very interesting to me - during infinite analyses there isn't a single hint for about an hour on my PC that the move 1.d5 should be one of the best since it appeared in the search line list after some 49 mins. I use 11 search lines. So during this time the engine seems to just ignore that move or put it somewhere on the last places when analysing the position. Therefore the fact that the engine puts the move among the 5 chosen ones when in corr mode is fascinating me - it recognizes somehow that this move is one of the candidates for taking into consideration regardless of the final choice. That is the fact I like your program very much and I am glad to purchase it.
Parent - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2008-01-14 21:31
Thanks for the nice comments :)

However, Rybka doesn't have any way to distinguish between interesting moves and good moves. What you describe sounds to me like just luck. You just got unlucky in the 11-variation infinite mode and lucky in the 5-variation corr. mode. This can happen, as the search is quite sensitive.

Vas
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