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Up Topic Correspondence Chess / WBCCC 2015 / WBCCC 2015 EVENT RULES discussions
- By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2014-08-20 14:01
As there are some discussions going on regarding the 2015 event, time for a separate thread on the event.
- - By Scott (****) Date 2014-08-09 21:09

> we will be playing 19 games this year,Round Robin,i would prefer double Round Robin with half the time.


These LONG quiet periods waiting for the slowpokes is a definite minus for this tournament. Here's two solutions. One, cut the time in half as Paul first suggested or even down to ten days, and increase the increment to 4 to 8 hours. This would make players play more regularly. Two, when it get like now with only 4 or less games to go, go ahead and start the next round.
Parent - - By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2014-08-10 07:02

> Two, when it get like now with only 4 or less games to go, go ahead and start the next round.


Two issues with this- 1) Games are sent to the chessok server at the start of each round, so they need to be loaded on to the server, so all the games for a particular round need to start at the same time. That stops your idea dead in the water right there.

2) Bringing some games forward round after round will only magnify the issue by the end of the competition. In fact, it will encourage the 'slow coaches' to play slower because they can gain an advantage by being able to see what results they need to score to win much earlier, so much so that they could be just starting their last round games when others have finished their last games. This is against the best interests of the event.
Parent - By Scott (****) Date 2014-08-12 20:03

> Two issues with this- 1) Games are sent to the chessok server at the start of each round, so they need to be loaded on to the server, so all the games for a particular round need to start at the same time. That stops your idea dead in the water right there.


> 2) Bringing some games forward round after round will only magnify the issue by the end of the competition. In fact, it will encourage the 'slow coaches' to play slower because they can gain an advantage by being able to see what results they need to score to win much earlier, so much so that they could be just starting their last round games when others have finished their last games. This is against the best interests of the event.


Ok, I give you that point. But what about Pauls idea of doubling the games and cutting the time in half? I took some time and looked at the games that are already finished. Believe it or not, the average actual time used by the players who are finished was 7 days, 10 hours and 24 minutes. So 15 days would be twice the amount of time the normal players use. Let's see you shoot that argument down, :smile:
Parent - - By Schachmatt (****) [us] Date 2014-08-12 20:13
+1
Parent - - By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2014-08-18 09:22
Decided to delay my reply by a few days to see the course of the current games, to see the move patterns, before replying to Scott, and hence Paul. So I hadn't forgotten about this. Back twelve months or so ago when we were discussing the format for this event, I proposed the idea making it twelve individual games, with 15 days initial time plus 1 hour increment. Which would allow to use normal individual swiss pairings, rather than the compromised system we use at the moment in versions (2011, 2012, 2013 and most likely 2015).

I was told that 15 days was too short a time period. Now it seems that some players are saying that 15 days for TWO games is acceptable. Personally I think 15 days for two games is too fast for everyone, but I do wonder if 15 days initial time plus 1 hour increment with 1 game per round and standard swiss pairings is the way to go.
Parent - - By Morpheus (****) [pl] Date 2014-08-18 09:31 Edited 2014-08-18 09:35
Absolutely 15 days + 1h is unacceptable for me.
It does not change the rules of the game during the tournament.
For me and even 30 days is a short time, I have commitments in private life
Also please do not change the rules at the time of the game. thank you.

PS. Please be patient quickly playing chess players

Is this a proposal for WBCCC 2015? or U can change rules WBCCC2014?
Parent - - By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2014-08-18 09:36

> Absolutely 15 days + 1h is unacceptable for me.
> It does not change the rules of the game during the tournament.
> For me and even 30 days is a short time, I have commitments in private life
> Also please do not change the rules at the time of the game. thank you.


> PS. Please be patient quickly playing chess players


Sekos, there is absolutely no changing of the conditions for 2014. This is discussion for 2015. And I repeat DISCUSSION. There will probably be five months of it. And just because Scott is discussing it and I am participating in it, does not mean that it will happen. Just that I am engaging in the debate and seeing if others have an opinion.
Parent - By Morpheus (****) [pl] Date 2014-08-18 10:20
OK thank You Garvin
Parent - - By Scott (****) Date 2014-08-18 16:50

> Absolutely 15 days + 1h is unacceptable for me.


That is the whole point of the suggestion to weed out the slowpokes, :wink:

> For me and even 30 days is a short time, I have commitments in private life.


Then maybe you shouldn't enter "blitz" tourneys eh?

It no longer matters to me, I'm finishing my current obligations and retiring from this form of chess, :grin::cool:
Parent - By Morpheus (****) [pl] Date 2014-08-18 16:53 Edited 2014-08-20 15:37

>>Then maybe you shouldn't enter "blitz" tourneys eh


Right. Agree :wink:

Scott,

for me 30 days is on the limit of my availability :sad:

PS. But I am happy to be cheering all the participants in the next "blitz" tournament
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2014-08-19 08:12

> It no longer matters to me, I'm finishing my current obligations and retiring from this form of chess, :grin::cool:


Your retirement is declined because you're a big part of this tournament and the rybkaforum corr-family!
And by good means, especially Pawel is using the time-control given by the rules just wisely (he doesn't artificially delay the game), so your addressees should be more Jitan and others. Yet i'm also looking forward how Garvin and the others conclude to position this tournament maybe more interesting between classic corr-chess and freestyle... which will be a difficult task, because either way you will lose players (too slow, too fast...) but it also may open new doors... just see how well the freestyle-tournaments at InfinityChess were created, and the blitz corr-chess tournament should be THE unique trademark of rybkaforum. :smile:
Parent - - By Scott (****) Date 2014-08-19 08:27

> Your retirement is declined because you're a big part of this tournament and the rybkaforum corr-family!


:smile:, thanks Anton! Just got this brand new section starting , https://www.iccf.com/event?id=45349 You know any of these guys? I played Dr. Grabner to a draw in the first round. Of course the time control 10 moves in 50 days with duplication after 20 days is used, could be better, :wink::grin:

> And by good means, especially Pawel is using the time-control given by the rules just wisely (he doesn't artificially delay the game), so your addressees should be more Jitan and others.


Yes, I agree, Pawel is fine, we know where the problem lies. (plus I'm Black against him in the final round and would rather not give him more incentive, :eek::smile:)
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2014-08-19 09:07

> You know any of these guys?


No, i just know two ICCF-players in person (and a few dozen by name like you, Uly, Eros, ... :grin:), yet winning vs. Dr. Grabner is a good step for you, congratulations! :smile: The strange thing with ICCF seems to be that there are still a lot players playing without engines (which may would be better off at SchemingMind or other sites), which obviously get ripped off their ELO's by "the new generation"...

> Of course the time control 10 moves in 50 days with duplication after 20 days is used, could be better, :wink::grin:


This would also kill my nerves, yet it allows playing over 100 games at once. :wink: Its just sad that "the quicker tournaments" are so rare, as they obviously provide the most challenge&thrill...
Parent - - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2014-08-19 21:04
Played Morley before and many times against Ian Mason.
Parent - - By Scott (****) Date 2014-08-19 23:07
Thanks Mark, how would you rate them?
Parent - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2014-08-20 20:08
Very highly
- - By Scott (****) Date 2014-08-20 11:46
I think in light of this year's events, that an adjustment to the time control isn't that important. This is too fast for some and not fast enough for others, but all in all it's not that bad. The thing that is really needed is an entry fee. This would stop a lot of the problems from happening, e.g., if Jitan wants to spend 3 weeks on move one, who cares? I suggest $100 USD entry fee. 90% to go to prizes and 10% to organizers. It would unretire me for one thing, :smile:
Parent - By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2014-08-20 15:02

> I think in light of this year's events, that an adjustment to the time control isn't that important. This is too fast for some and not fast enough for others, but all in all it's not that bad. The thing that is really needed is an entry fee. This would stop a lot of the problems from happening, e.g., if Jitan wants to spend 3 weeks on move one, who cares? I suggest $100 USD entry fee. 90% to go to prizes and 10% to organizers. It would unretire me for one thing, :smile:


More of a bond than an entry fee. Or 50 per cent bond, 50 per cent entry fee. But need to be careful. $100 USD might be ok for those living in the US, but living standards, currency exchanges, wage rates etc are very different in other parts of the world. So $100 USD in some parts of the world can be very expensive indeed. Just something to consider.
- - By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2014-08-20 14:14
I have moved all discussions regarding the 2015 events that I can find to this thread, except what has taken place in the general chat thread.

From now on, those who wish to discuss the 2015 event, please do so here :) Stops people like Sekos thinking the 2014 conditions have changed mid tournament, when they have not.

And btw Scott, if you keep making so many 180 changes, the cops will pull you over for hooning and reckless driving.
Parent - By keoki010 (Silver) [us] Date 2014-08-20 14:38 Edited 2014-08-20 22:09
:lol: Had to look up "hooning". Not used in USA
Parent - By Scott (****) Date 2014-08-20 15:41

> And btw Scott, if you keep making so many 180 changes, the cops will pull you over for hooning and reckless driving.


:lol:, luckily my BiPolar disorder keeps me from driving and definitely lucky for the other drivers! :smile:
- By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2014-08-20 20:31
As my name has been mentioned many times I would like to say it was only an idea put forward to see others reactions.
I am quite happy for tournament to remain as it is this year and fully realise a lot of people have less free time than myself.
- - By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2014-10-26 03:27
Now that 2014 final round is fully underway, time to start more formal discussions for 2015. We have already had some discussions of a more informal nature for 2015 and I think I am already in favour of going with the two tournament format.

The main event is the traditional WBCCC 2015, but we revert back to the individual swiss format. Time control stays at 30 moves initial time plus 1 hour per move. 12 games in total.

Secondary event is the double round robin event, where all games start in middle of January and end December 1. This can be guaranteed because there is no increment finish. I just would need to sort out the time control with Dadi. Whilst I originally stated a time control of 160 days per player. I am thinking this is not such a wise option after all. A better time control would more along the lines of 40 moves in 80 days, followed by 20 moves in 40 days and then all remaining moves in remaining time, no increment.

This would prevent some players from just sitting on their positions for 100 days.

I am aware that this is similar to the ficgs and iccf time controls, but the big difference here is that potentially each person would have 38 games going at once if we had 20 players. Plus they would have their two individual games from WBCCC 2015 starting each round.
Parent - - By bio (***) [de] Date 2014-10-26 10:17
One must play both touneys? Or possiblle to choose one of them?

Regards
Bio
Parent - By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2014-10-26 10:49
A player is free to play in one or both events.
- - By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2014-10-27 10:56
This is not a point for discussion. But I do need to say it as it will be included in the new rules for 2015 and I will need to adapt it for this competition. Fide have adopted a new set of rules starting July 1 2014 and some of them are still being 'fine tuned'. There have been some dramatic changes, others minor.

So for the 2015 competition, it will be held under the new rules. in the next couple of weeks I will give an outline of the new rules and how they will apply to the 2015 competition.
Parent - - By trandism (**) [gr] Date 2014-10-28 18:06
Dramatic changes regarding correspondence chess? I'm not aware of any!
Parent - By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2014-10-28 22:40

> Dramatic changes regarding correspondence chess? I'm not aware of any!


Did I say dramatic changes for correspondence chess, no. I said dramatic changes for the fide laws of chess. But as we follow the fide laws of chess as much as practical, when those laws change, then the new rules also come into force. And so as new rules have begun for all competitions that have begun after July 1 2014, and clearly WBCCC 2015 two events will be starting after July 1 2014, we will be under the new rules. As I am certain most players will not be aware of the changes, I will need to prepare some information for everyone.

Also, I need to make sure that Dadi is aware of the changes as some of the rule changes will affect how the client should pick up draws too.
- - By ofry [ru] Date 2014-11-19 19:01
Hello. Can you give more add time for move, say, +1 day for move or 10 days for 10 moves? Now this TC is too little. I tried to play so fast TC's, but I was not satisfied :(
I want to sleep, eat, walk etc, and not watch the opponent to cut down his flag.
Parent - - By Scott (****) Date 2014-11-19 19:46
There is plenty of tourneys with long time control, the is the CC blitz Ch. :cool:

This is for players who walk, eat and sleep chess, never bathe and smoke heavy... :razz:
Parent - By ofry [ru] Date 2014-11-26 00:44
About long TC. Controls like 10 days for 10 moves, 5 moves + 1 days inc 10 days max are NOT long... It's blitz TC too. But these TC are more comfortable to play.
- By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2014-12-14 11:48
I have sent Dadi a pm to confirm if the second event time control is possible, so awaiting confirmation on that. Or to see what changes might be required.
- Date 2014-12-16 12:52
- Date 2014-12-17 16:59
- By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2014-12-17 23:33
Seems like the point of this particular thread and the chat thread running along side are not quite clear enough. This thread is for discussing the rules of the two events etc, and only that. If you want to come on and diss the whole event, question its point, or criticise move rates, then that is what the chat thread is for.

So I have changed the thread title again to try and make this thread clearer.
- By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2014-12-29 12:29
General notice- Dadi has sent xfccplay download instructions to the new players, so I can confirm that entries will close Monday 5th January 2015 23:59 GMT. So everyone needs to get their entries in by then.

I really do not want to have to resort to being like most chess organisers who have to threaten, bribe and induce players to enter early, rather than leaving it to the last minute. Just enter now, it really does save us all a lot of heartache.
- - By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2015-01-09 07:45
Pairings for both divisions have been sent to Dadi. As soon as everything has been confirmed as ok, I will publish on here. Proposed starting time for both competitions is still Monday January 12 10PM GMT.
Parent - By trandism (**) [gr] Date 2015-01-09 14:44
Great! Looking forward to it :)
- - By Garvin Gray (****) Date 2015-01-09 23:43
One important item.

In the rules, all players names have to be publically declared on the forum as part of the conditions of the competition. But as some players have noted, Uly's full name has been withheld. Uly and I have discussed this at length by private message and he does have some legitimate concerns regarding having his full name attached to his handle of Uly on the internet, so I have agreed that it can be withheld.

In return for this, if any player in either competition does wish to know Uly's true identity they are free to contact Uly and he will identify himself for this for this purpose, but this information MUST NOT be shared on the forum. If this information is then shared on the forum, I will delete it as soon as I see it and will take further action.

Paul Watson (National12) has already confirmed on this forum to Uly's true identity before this became an issue.

This exception is only being made due to the unusual nature of the circumstances and because Uly has been part of WBCCC since its inception in 2011.
Parent - By bio (***) [de] Date 2015-01-10 11:32
This is fine for me.
Up Topic Correspondence Chess / WBCCC 2015 / WBCCC 2015 EVENT RULES discussions

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