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Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / Uly vs. Antares 0-1
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Parent - - By Antares (****) Date 2014-12-07 15:37

> 52. Ne6 Rxc4 53. h5

Oh, i'm actually not interested in that "conditional". :wink:

52...g6 *

k7/8/2p1N1p1/5P2/2P1r2P/8/K6P/8 w - - 0 53
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2014-12-08 05:27
Oh well, just want to clarify that when I said I solved the game to a draw, and that not even god could beat me, and that I wanted to humiliate you, because the mate claim was bogus, I was being serious, because I thought I had it. Even in my previous move, I had a -1.15 evaluation, that was for a dead drawn position, that I managed to backtrack to the root position.

Just this morning realized that it was a bug in Stockfish's persistent hash:

When you repeat a position, it is marked as 0.00, and then, when this position is reached from a non-repeating move order, it's still marked at 0.00. What happened on this game was that, positions that were won for black were incorrectly marked as 0.00, and Stockfish avoided them, and what was left was drawn, and just released it, but in reality, as you said, the position has been lost for a while. That's why I lost this game, though I probably would have lost it for another reason anyway.

Sorry for my behavior, this took me as a surprise and I was hitting my forehead after finding about it. Also, sorry to Ozymandias for doubting his analysis.

Good job Antares, you have truly bested me, and as I said before, if this endgame was reached with colors reversed, I couldn't have beaten you, because I couldn't see any black win, and went from draw to lost in my realization in one move. Well done, I have nothing to prove.


Parent - - By Antares (****) Date 2014-12-08 11:13
Uly, thanks for your benevolently words, all you have done for this correspondence-chess-subforum [to keep it alive] and especially for this game... i enjoyed analysis, battering, playing and in the end obviously also winning this game very much as it all filled several void hours on rainy or dark days with "intellectual spartime". After our trashtalk-dust has now settled, we can easily say that this is one of the best and most-deeply analyzed Urusov Gambit's ever played up-to-date, a real valuable addition to Nelson's database (in case he is interested of course).

> bug in Stockfish's persistent hash

Thats why you analyze with 7 engines and i use 3(+1 - i used here one most wouldn't even consider valuable), which in best case have a different character and [positional] read on the game... Stockfish for example had -from a farer distance- problems seening the strength of 52...g6 as 53. fxg6!? Rxe6 54. h5 creates a far-advanced connected-and-one-of-them-therefore-protected double-pawn where it obviously gives high bonuses.

> Sorry for my behavior

No problem Uly, we may have had a few different opinions and even some "slight problems" in the past due to the natures of our characters, yet i think every game brings us forward in our development&thinking and there should&will be always repect for us corr-chess-loving each other. :smile: The given mate-score of 73 moves btw. was based on 50. Kb3, which was the longest combination and sum of moves reaching a Lomonosov-7men-tb win i could find... and as i don't have access to them, here i want to thank George/keoki010, Peter/Regularuser, irulats and Hurnavich for each answering me a single Lomonosov-lookup.

I may post a little of my game-analysis later, in case some people are interested in. :smile:

All the best, Anton
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2014-12-08 13:01
Can someone produce this in a proper pgn?
Parent - - By Antares (****) Date 2014-12-08 13:31
[Event "Correspondence Chess"]
[Site ""]
[Date "2014.06.23"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Uly"]
[Black "Antares"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C24"]
[Opening "Bishop's Opening"]
[Variation "Urusov Gambit"]
[PlyCount "104"]

1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 Nf6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. Qxd4 Nf6 6. Nc3 Be7 7. Bg5 h6
8. Qh4 d5 9. O-O-O c6 10. Rhe1 Be6 11. Bd3 Kd7 12. Bd2 Bd6 13. Qa4 a5 14.
Kb1 Re8 15. Nd4 Na6 16. Nxe6 fxe6 17. Bg6 Re7 18. Ne2 Nc5 19. Qh4 Kc7 20.
f4 b5 21. Nd4 Kb7 22. Re2 Qc7 23. Bc1 b4 24. Rde1 Nfe4 25. Qg4 Rh8 26. g3
h5 27. Qh3 a4 28. Bxe4 Nxe4 29. Nxe6 Qb6 30. Rxe4 dxe4 31. f5 Qb5 32. Rxe4
b3 33. c4 bxa2+ 34. Ka1 Qb3 35. Qg2 Bb4 36. Qe2 a3 37. Re3 axb2+ 38. Bxb2
Qa4 39. Qd3 Ka8 40. Qb3 Qa5 41. Be5 Rd7 42. Re2 Ra7 43. Bd4 Rb8 44. Rxa2
Bc5 45. Rxa5 Rxa5+ 46. Qa2 Bxd4+ 47. Nxd4 Rxa2+ 48. Kxa2 Re8 49. Ne6 Re7
50. Nf4 h4 51. gxh4 Re4 52. Ne6 g6 0-1
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2014-12-08 16:39
Parent - By Antares (****) Date 2014-12-08 21:31
You're very welcome! My thanks also go to my chess-friend Ozy, Dr. Robert Hyatt, my Lomonsov-lookup'ers mentioned above, everyone who followed this game and every great contributor to computer-&corr-chess. :smile:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2014-12-09 11:29

> Thats why you analyze with 7 engines

I dropped them one by one when it was apparent they didn't have a clue of what was going on, and kept Stockfish because it was the only one managing to find the "drawn variations" I was seeking for, which ultimately weren't drawn at all.

I have to say you're the strongest opponent I have ever faced, and when I ultimately found out this game was lost, I contemplated quitting computer chess altogether. Because I really didn't learn anything from it, and am the same person as when it started, so that if we played it again I'd just lose in a different way.

It seems I plateaued at some point in the past, but didn't realize it until now. From past lost games I could say "Ah ha! I made this mistake, and I will not make it next time! I learned something!" In this one, there was a certain position that appeared in the board, that I know now was lost, but that I'd not have a way to know it's lost in reasonable time, and that I was convinced it was drawn. If such positions are out there then I have no way to avoid them because they look to me indistinguishable from drawn ones. And from the attacking side, I'd not have gone for that won position for the same reason.

So this feels like the end of the rainbow for me, a point at which I realize I don't have what it takes to play at today's levels, and in which I'd not know what to fix. I know it's not hardware, and I know it's not software, because the entire foundations of my analysis methods were torn apart.

Speaking of Nelson Hernandez, I'll never forget what he said the other day. He explained why he does what he does (speaking to Highendman):

"The goal, always, is not merely to win, but to discourage the opposition so much that they retire from the hobby.  The end-goal is to stand atop the mountain with desert all around as far as the eye can see.  The end-goal is for your face to adorn every postage stamp!"

I do think I'm at that point, I don't think I could stand another loss like this.
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2014-12-09 13:36
Now you know why I don't personally play chess.

Before you retire, leaving your opponent alone and triumphant on the mountaintop with desert all around as far as the eye can see, please DO send me your entire games database.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2014-12-10 07:32
Oh yes, I remember I was preparing new games to send to you, like 2 years ago or something. You know why I never sent them? For the silliest of reasons: I previously had sent all of my games to you, and the new games I was going to send you were a very small portion of my total games, so the download would have been mostly a waste of time because you already had most of the games on it.

the plan was to sort through them, and only include the new ones in a download, and send those, but I never got to it. I guess it's best if I just send you all the games that I have, despite the repeated games that it would have.

What are the extension of the games played at Playchess, InfinityChess and Chess Planet? I probably have games on there and can retrieve them and send them over as well.
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2014-12-10 13:19
Wow, thanks.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2018-04-16 20:06
Okay, so it has come to this, I lost this game because of a silly Stockfish bug and I want to know if I could have saved it otherwise...

Would you be willing to play this game again but this time I attempt to defend the white side properly?
Parent - By Antares (****) Date 2018-04-16 21:31
OMG!, you woke up the eversleeping King Arthur and his Lords Templar... but I give you a fair chance... :grin:
Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / Uly vs. Antares 0-1
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