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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / Idea for a new GUI feature - human assisted search
- - By kasinp (*) Date 2007-12-23 15:05
I don't know if this is possible without compromising the search algorithm.  But this could be a great feature:

In a deeper search, the engine (repeatedly) wastes time on the analysis of nonsensical moves.  Yes, I know - some of them are hidden gems.  Some clearly are not.  I would like a GUI option that instructs the engine to SKIP the current move under analysis.  Perhaps equivalent to "inducing" a fail low.

I suggest that if this feature should be used, then the move should be flagged as "assisted" (or interfered with) by the operator.

I would like to hear your comments about a) the viability  b) usefulness   of this idea.  Thank you.

Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2007-12-23 15:16
Rybka already has this feature (you can tell her to ignore any move you want). It's actually part of the UCI protocol.
Parent - - By kasinp (*) Date 2007-12-23 15:23
Thank you for your answer.  It strikes me that if this is a UCI protocol feature, then the GUI would have to support it.
What does it mean that Rybka supports it today?  In which GUI?

How would I use this feature, say, in CB or Shredder GUI today?

Thank you,
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2007-12-23 15:33
In Shredder, you can exlude moves by pressing shift while making them. CB is more limited: you can only exclude the best move by pressing y. Chess Assistant can do it too, but you have to select the moves in a separate dialog. The GUI currently has that, and the ability to include/exclude all moves in the book.

Shredder's method is the best by far IMO. It's more useful than multi-PV.
Parent - - By Zruty (*****) [ru] Date 2007-12-24 12:21
Well, there are two situations:
1) You don't want to analyze several moves from CURRENT position. There is really an UCI command to do this and all the GUIs support this in some or another manner.
2) You don't want to analyze some moves in ANOTHER position. For example, you somehow have a list of positions where there is a dead draw (not seen though by an engine) and don't want these positions to appear since you want to win. You want to shape the search tree and/or to influence the evaluation function. There is no way to do this with the UCI engine.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2007-12-24 12:37
Well, actually there is a way to do 2). I think Shredder supports this, you can set a value for a position in the tree and Shredder will use this value in it's calculations (at least that's how I understood it). I guess it works with persistant hash somehow, but of course I'm no expert :) . However, I don't think it's that useful, since in practice when an engine doesn't understand a position, it will play not only one line wrong so setting values for the complete tree to avoid those lines is quite difficult.

For 1): the solution by Shredder with the "shift + enter move" command seems to be quite elegant.
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2007-12-24 12:41
I forgot to mention "ctrl + move" to exclude all moves not entered that way.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2007-12-24 12:38
Actually, Shredder can do 2) with the UCI_SetPositionValue command. I imagine the engine just parses the fen into a hashkey and stores it as an exact score at maximum depth. Probably in the learning file.

Oops, beaten.
Parent - By Zruty (*****) [ru] Date 2007-12-24 12:43
I'm beaten too, by you & Felix :)
Parent - - By rivaldo (***) [de] Date 2007-12-24 23:58
this is exactly the feature I really must have. this helps you _a lot_ in correspondence chess. I didn't know shredder supported this. only in shredder classic or also UCI version? if I only knew this earlier! but anyway it's nicer to have this feature within rybka!
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2007-12-25 15:37

>I didn't know shredder supported this. only in shredder classic or also UCI version?

Shredder Classic is the UCI version, just lobotomized. I have no idea if the CB version has it, though.
Parent - - By rivaldo (***) [de] Date 2007-12-26 02:18
I see an option in the UCI version, where you can set a position value, but I didn't quite get how to use it. could you help me here?
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2007-12-26 13:11
I found it in the help file. It's been over a year so I don't remember how to use it.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / Idea for a new GUI feature - human assisted search

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