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- - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 18:56
Hi All,

I reported in a previous thread that Hiarcs came 2nd in the World Online League. We have done it again this time in the WOL Blitz tournament a 7 round swiss at 10+10 played today on the Playchess server. The games are here http://www.hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=707

WOL Blitz 2007 10+10 7 rounds Rated rapi 2007
(TD: Sebi-chess, Time: 10m + 10s, 7 rounds)

1 Pizza Margherita,Zappa Mexico X64 2778 + 1/5 + 1/4 - ½/8 + ½/2 - ½/6 + 1/3 - 1/9 5.5 / 7
2 HiarcsX MP,HIARCS 11.94v MP 2568 - ½/15 + 1/12 + ½/3 - ½/1 + 1/4 - 1/6 + ½/5 5.0 / 7
3 Michi47,Rybka 2.3.2a mp 2530 + ½/13 + 1/15 - ½/2 + 1/8 - 1/9 - 0/1 + ½/4 4.5 / 7 19.50 18.00
4 TeamJungle,Fritz 9 2578 + 1/10 - 0/1 + 1/13 + 1/5 - 0/2 + 1/8 - ½/3 4.5 / 7 18.50
5 Capricorn,Deep Sjeng 2.7 - 0/1 + 1/7 + 1/10 - 0/4 - 1/11 + ½/9 - ½/2 4.0 / 7
6 Iptables,Deep Shredder 11 x6 - 1/9 - 0/8 + 1/15 - 1/13 + ½/1 + 0/2 - 0/7 3.5 / 7 17.50
7 Kingman,CM11_Thorondor + ½/16 - 0/5 + 0/9 - ½/12 - ½/14 + 1/11 + 1/6 3.5 / 7 10.00
8 Murx,Loop M1-P8 2655 - ½/12 + 1/6 + ½/1 - 0/3 + ½/10 - 0/4 + ½/14 3.0 / 7 14.00
9 KingOfJungle,Deep Junior 10 2446 + 0/6 - ½/11 - 1/7 + 1/14 + 0/3 - ½/5 + 0/1 3.0 / 7 13.00
10 Auryn,Deep Pharaon 3.6 Be - 0/4 + 1/14 - 0/5 + ½/11 - ½/8 + 1/13 - 0/12 3.0 / 7 11.50
11 Hoshad,Ktulu 8.1 + ½/9 - 1/12 - ½/10 + 0/5 - 0/7 + 1/17 3.0 / 6 11.00
12 Sebi-chess,Glaurung 2.0.1 + ½/8 - 0/2 + 0/11 + ½/7 - 0/13 - 1/14 + 1/10 3.0 / 7 8.50
13 Christian eck,Naum 2.2 - ½/3 + 1/16 - 0/4 + 0/6 + 1/12 - 0/10 2.5 / 6
14 Knilch hi,Spike 1.2 Turin 2548 - 0/10 + 1/17 - 0/9 + ½/7 + 0/12 - ½/8 2.0 / 6
15 Fastest Result,Fruit 2.3.1 + ½/2 - 0/3 - 0/6 0.5 / 3 3.50 4.50
16 DeepForce,Toga II 1.3.4 SMP 2476 - ½/7 - 0/13 0.5 / 2 3.50 0.00
17 (Bye) - 0/14 - 0/11 0.0 / 2
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-12-15 19:03
Tisk, tisk, Rybka tied in third with...Fritz 9?!  There is that small game number with Swiss tournament table for you...

Anyway, any ideas why they didn't do a double round robin with this?  It wouldn't have taken terribly long due to the shorter games--each engine would play 30 games, so get everyone together for 4-5 hours on seven different days or whenever convenient...
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 19:14 Edited 2007-12-15 19:26
It took 5 hours to play this at 10+10. 7 rounds is only 2 less than we play at Leiden nobody complains about a Swiss when Rybka wins ;-) The main tournament took 11 months this was just a bit of fun as always at the end. F9 won it last year and guess what Hiarcs was 2nd again!
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-12-15 19:50
Yes, congratulations to you and the rest of the Hiarcs team for a good KOE performance in both tourneys! :-)
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2007-12-15 20:16
I'm very sorry that i didn't know anything about that tour. I'd been happy to participate - maybe Rybka would have done better in this case. But i came back from yesterday's nightshift today at 13:00 - maybe it was too late then.

Regards,
Lukas
Parent - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 20:19
Hi Lukas,

You would not have been able to enter todays event. It was open to those who had played in the main tournament of a double Round Robin started back in January at 90 + 30 see http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=549

Best Wishes,

Harvey
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-12-15 21:00
Michi47 isn't really a good representative of the Rybka class on the Playchess server with a number of engines playing over 300 Elo higher over a long time period. How was this selection made?

Regards,
Alan
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 21:03
See my reply to Lukas - you have to be willing to give up 1 night a week for 11 months!
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-12-15 21:06
OK, so selection is based on availability rather than strength.

Regards,
Alan
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 21:07
If your not available you cant play.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-12-15 21:16
It's not obvious to me that there weren't much stronger Rybka representatives ready, willing, and able to play. Is there a description somewhere on how this selection is made?

Regards,
Alan
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 21:27 Edited 2007-12-15 22:03
Hi Alan,

When the World Online League started there were trawls done on Playchess etc.. We are now starting season 3. I am sitting it out this year as I have discovered it is a huge commitment. I have posted here several times about WOL - this is the 1st time anyone has shown any interest in joining.

The selection for the Blitz as I have said twice already in this thread was only open to those who signed up to the main tournament started back in January. The games in this tournament and the King of Engines tournament which is played at 180+0 have now been played on the Playchess server for 2 years and you have been logged on several times when these games were being played and discussed.

In KOE Hiarcs did not get a great result as it was played by a normal customer on normal hardware - I have not made 1 post saying if i played we would have done better - these tournaments are to involve enthusiasts not to prove your oct is bigger than my oct.

So there was plenty of opportunity to express an interest. I am not sure if this years tournaments are full but if you want I can put you in touch with the TD's.

Maybe all tournaments should be played on = hardware or at least a hardware limit. Then nobody can buy themselves the best hardware and an increased chance to win. It would make it fairer to those who do not have lots of money but may have a decent program!?

Harvey
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-12-15 21:34
Harvey, I don't think you're looking at this correctly.  What Alan really wants is a one-on-one match with you.  To the winner will be a prize of a month's supply of fish.
Parent - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 21:35
Hmmmm Fish lovely grilled, fried, poached, but I would rather have a Steak!
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 21:40
Hey talking of Steaks and having a Sidserious moment and replying to myself - what the hell is A1 sauce? I was in this Steak Restaurant in Israel and the Americans on the next table were very upset that they did not have A1 sauce?!
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-12-15 22:17
From their home page, the history of  A1 Steak Sauce!
    
1824-1831  

In a time when a kings palate was supreme. Henderson William Brand, chef to England's King George IV, creates a special sauce for the king's table. The king is so impressed with the new sauce, he proclaims it "A1".


1831  

H.W. Brand knowing that he had a great idea leaves the palace walls and starts Brand & Co. where he begins to manufacture meat extracts and essences.


1850  

Being a great culinary master, but not a businessman, Brand goes bankrupt and has to sell his business to his friend, W.H. Withall. Knowing that Brands products are the best, Withall continues to do business under the Brand & Co. name.


1862  

Steak Sauce is entered at the International Exposition in London, England. The sauce is again proclaimed "A1" . The sauce with its royal beginnings is on its way to be the most famous steak sauce in North America.


1873  

Withall decides to sell Brand & Co. to Dence and Mason. Brand re-enters the picture claiming trademark infringements. Legal battles will continue for another eight years until Dence and Mason agree to place Brand on an annuity and purchase Brand & Co. The steak sauce is now officially called A1 Steak Sauce®.


1890's  

A1 Steak Sauce® continues to win peoples hearts and awards at International Expositions in London and Paris.


1895  

The A1 Steak Sauce® trademarks are registered in North America.


Early 1900's  

A1 Steak Sauce® begins to makes its way to North American dinner tables.


1931  

A1 Steak Sauce® makes it way in to Canada, and on peoples food.


1970's  

Consumers realize that A1 Steak Sauce® is not just a sauce for steak, but for a variety of other meats and vegetables.


1990's  

Steaks and steak houses are back in vogue and so is A1 Steak Sauce®.


July 28th, 1999  

Renée's Gourmet Foods Inc., makers of Renée's Gourmet™ Salad Dressings and Sauces purchases A1 Steak Sauce® Renée's Gourmet Foods Inc. begins to refocus this sauce back to its "Royal Roots".


June 10, 2000   A1 Steak Sauce® launches www.a1sauce.com. Introducing to the world, great recipe ideas and a fresh new look.
    

Bottom line, this is a good sauce if don't want to taste your steak.

Alan
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 22:23
Is it a bit like HP sauce?



The original recipe for HP Sauce was invented and developed by Frederick Gibson Garton, a grocer from Nottingham. He registered the name H.P. Sauce in 1896. Garton called the sauce HP because he had heard that a restaurant in the Houses of Parliament had begun serving it. For many years the bottle labels have carried a picture of the Palace of Westminster. Garton sold the recipe and HP brand for the sum of £150 and the settlement of some unpaid bills to Edwin Samson Moore. Moore, the founder of the Midlands Vinegar Company (the forerunner of HP Foods) subsequently launched HP Sauce in 1903.

Some stories suggest that the name HP was derived from the name Harry Palmer.[citation needed] Palmer was said to have invented the recipe and sold the product as "Harry Palmer's Famous Epsom Sauce". The story then goes that Palmer, an avid gambler at the Epsom Races, was forced to sell the recipe to Garton to cover his debts. However, there is no evidence in the official history of the brand to show Palmer existed, or had any claim to the development of the recipe. It also seems unlikely that Garton, a grocer from the Midlands would have come in contact with a gambler from the South of England.

For many years the description on the label was in both English and French. During a 1960s, BBC television broadcast Marty Feldman sang the French version in the style of Jacques Brel. This performance is included in the DVD "The Best of Marty Feldman", and the song was also included on Feldman's 1969 album I Feel a Song Going Off. The sauce gained brief fame when it was reportedly used by pagans during solstice celebrations.

The Aston factory (at [show location on an interactive map] 52°29′56″N 1°53′06″W / 52.4989, -1.8849) was once bisected by the A38(M) motorway and had a pipeline, carrying vinegar over the motorway, from the Top Yard to the main Tower Road factory site. The Top Yard site was subsequently closed, and vinegar was not brewed on the Aston site during the last few years of production there. Ansells' brewery was adjacent to the factory.

[edit] Wilson's Gravy

HP Sauce became known as "Wilson's Gravy" in the 1960s and 1970s after Harold Wilson, the Labour Prime Minister. The name arose after Wilson's wife, Mary, gave an interview to the Sunday Times in which she claimed "If Harold has a fault, it is that he will drown everything with HP Sauce". In 1975, when Wilson addressed a banquet to celebrate 100 years since the formation of the Midlands Vinegar Company, he admitted that it was not HP Sauce that he was partial to, but was in fact Lea & Perrins Worcestershire Sauce.

Private Eye's Parliamentary news section is called "HP Sauce".

[edit] Varieties
HP fruity sauce
HP fruity sauce

HP has many varieties of its sauce – some more like the original than others. They are all sold under the main HP brand and in the same bottle and labels. The range of HP Sauces include HP Chilli, BBQ, and Fruity.

[edit] Irish imitation

Because of its Houses of Parliament labelling, HP Sauce had colonial connotations for many consumers in both Ulster and the Republic of Ireland. By the late 1940s, Crosse and Blackwell (Ireland) Ltd was marketing a brand called TD Sauce (TD is the Irish equivalent of MP), with the label showing a drawing of the Leinster House, the Irish Parliament building[citation needed].

[edit] Heinz takeover and transfer of production

In June 2005, Heinz purchased the parent company, HP Foods, from Danone.[2] In October of that year the United Kingdom Office of Fair Trading referred the takeover to the Competition Commission,[3] who gave the go-ahead for the £440 million acquisition in April 2006.[4]

In May 2006, Heinz announced plans to switch production of HP Sauce from Aston to its European sauces facility in Elst, the Netherlands, ironically only weeks after HP launched a campaign to "Save the Proper British Cafe". The announcement prompted a call to boycott Heinz products. The move, resulting in the loss of approximately one hundred and twenty-five jobs at the Aston factory, was criticised by politicians and union officials, especially as the parent company still wanted to use the image of the House of Commons on its bottles. In the same month, Labour MP Khalid Mahmood brandished a bottle of HP Sauce during Prime Minister's Questions in the House of Commons as part of a protest against the Heinz move. He also made reference to the sauce's popularity with the former Labour Prime Minister Harold Wilson. These plans were confirmed on 23rd August 2006[5] and the factory at Aston ceased production on 16 March 2007.[6] A week later a 'wake' was held at the location of the factory.[7]

Demolition of the factory began in July 2007. It is estimated that it will take 16 weeks to completely demolish.[8] The tower of the factory, bearing the HP logo, was previously a famous landmark alongside the Aston Expressway leaving Birmingham City Centre.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-12-15 22:38
Well, as you can see, A1 Sauce is relying heavily on its distinguished British history, although apparently people in the UK have never heard of it. So maybe the A1 history is really true, or maybe it was made up by some high priced marketing guy to fool us gullible Americans.

The HP sauce story also has some major holes...

He registered the name H.P. Sauce in 1896. Garton called the sauce HP because he had heard that a restaurant in the Houses of Parliament had begun serving it.

Notice that there is no implication here that the restaurant in the Houses of Parliament were really serving this sauce. Its more likely this was only Garton's deranged dream!

Some stories suggest that the name HP was derived from the name Harry Palmer.

This is really a crude and disgusting reference! Do you really use this sauce???
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 22:40
This is really a crude and disgusting reference! Do you really use this sauce???

Great with Bacon and Eggs - I would not put it near my Steak!
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2007-12-15 22:45
What about Fish?
Parent - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 22:51
Do you really want me to start with my Fish recipe's? I would suggest for the A1 Rybka sauce:

Melt 1/2 oz (15gm) butter in a pan, add the chopped onions and cook gently until soft and golden. Add the garlic and cook for another minute or so. Season with salt and pepper to taste. Add the wine, turn up the heat and reduce the volume by about half. Remove from heat.

In another pan melt the remaining 1 oz (30 gm) of butter. Add the flour, stir and cook for about five minutes.

Now add the milk. If you've never made a white sauce before, the key is: take it slowly. Add just a little milk, stir well, then a little more. At first the result will look like a pastry. After a little more milk it will resemble an elastic dough. Beat this smooth. Then as you add the rest of the milk a little at a time keep stirring. You'll end up with a nice thick sauce.

Mix in the onion and garlic and you're done.

Serve the garlic sauce warm.

If things go horribly wrong and the garlic sauce is lumpy, don't panic - just bung it in a food processor and whizz for a few seconds. Yes, it's cheating but no-one will ever know!
Parent - By rhombus (*) Date 2007-12-16 13:25
In our gourmet family HP-sauce is a must with fish `n`chips meal.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2007-12-16 00:13
well harvey & alan i am now well prepared for the next pub quiz.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-12-15 22:06
I am sitting it out this year as I have discovered it is a huge commitment.

I assume you mean that you need to be there to start the game. Maybe they would like you to be there in case you disconnect or the server crashes. My chess computer runs 24/7 either playing games or analyzing games so it wouldn't be that big a deal. Probably there are a lot of other people with the same situation.

The selection for the Blitz as I have said twice already in this thread was only open to those who signed up to the main tournament started back in January.

As I recall, sign-up was first come, first served, with open invitations coming after invitations to the TD's friends. There's nothing wrong with this system, but it is completely arbitrary. I did try to sign up Fritz 5.32 or Fritz 7 to play, but they were turned down because they had too many letters in common with an accepted entry.

In KOE Hiarcs did not get a great result as it was played by a normal customer on normal hardware - I have not made 1 post saying if i played we would have done better - these tournaments are to involve enthusiasts not to prove your oct is bigger than my oct.

Your octal is certainly bigger than mine (I don't have one). Of course hardware is a factor in these competitions along with book quality.

So there was plenty of opportunity to express an interest. I am not sure if this years tournaments are full but if you want I can put you in touch with the TD's.
Been there, done that.

Alan
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 22:09
I assume you mean that you need to be there to start the game. Maybe they would like you to be there in case you disconnect or the server crashes. My chess computer runs 24/7 either playing games or analyzing games so it wouldn't be that big a deal. Probably there are a lot of other people with the same situation.


You need to be there for all of the game. There are often problems and the fun of the tournament is to talk about the game while it is playing - not just to press go and see the result sometime in the future.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-12-15 22:22
Wow, I'm not even there for all of the game when I'm playing OTB...
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 22:27
your allowed 1 30 second toilet break.

However several breaks are allowed for opening Wine or beer - or for a short trip to buy Wine or Beer if you run out. 1 competitor drinks Vodka and then takes his Dog for a short walk to buy more. As you can see the rules are flexible.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-12-15 22:43
I had dinner with two delightful Russian women last night. They were surprised that I was not aware that in Russia, it is common to share multiple 750 ml bottles of vodka among three friends and they even make 250 ml glasses specifically for this purpose.
Parent - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 22:44
:-)
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-12-16 01:28
That figures that they can't count in Russia.  Three friends + yourself = four total people.  But then again, I guess the 250 mL size could be to make sure it's larger than the 187.5 mL that would need to go in each of the four glasses :-).  Of course, I know there are different ways of interpreting your statement, but I'm just having fun.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-12-16 01:45
I was told that drinking was always done by trios. To prove the point, they showed me a Russian magazine that was selling a 250 ml 12-sided glass, perfect for vodka!

They also told me that their shot glasses were 100 ml rather than wimpy 50 ml shot glasses favored in the US.

Alan
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-12-16 02:28
I assume that after this, you inquired no further as to why their population is decreasing :-).
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-12-15 22:45
Is that 1 hour and 30 minutes or 1 minute and 30 seconds? One is rather leisurely, while the other should be accompanied by the William Tell Overture!
Parent - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-15 22:48
Sorry one 30 second break to run to the toilet and then only if you have drunk more than 2 pints of beer or a bottle of wine. The rules are very strict.
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-12-15 21:29
Cheer up, Alan--in spite of not being "much stronger", he still won the main tournament, which is what counts.
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2007-12-16 02:41
Hi Harvey,

Very nice showing for Hiarcs. Some of the other "Prominent" chess engines performed at their expected program level-I'm looking at DJ and a few others still births.

Thanks for posting the tournament  results here it rounds off this forum's edges-gives it more flavor.

Best Wishes,

Robert
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2007-12-16 13:10 Edited 2007-12-16 13:13
Hi Harvey. I don't like such rhetorical questions as poll. If you want to make such advertising for other engines, please do that in your own forum. I think it's good to have you in our forum and I also think that it's important to mentiopn other engines besides of Rybka (and it's also good to mention this tournament in our forum) but you could do this in a less polemic way.

Anyway, this is as far as I know no official Tournament for Rybka, so like the "thüringer Computer Schach" tournament it's not mentioned on our website or here in the forum (I even didn't know about it).
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-16 13:17
ok whatever - delete the poll delete the thread!
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2007-12-16 13:19
Why? He clearly said:

> I think it's good to have you in our forum and I also think that it's important to mentiopn other engines besides of Rybka (and it's also good to mention this tournament in our forum)


So don't focus on the bad things (such as a poll being deleted.)
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2007-12-16 13:20
harvey, I think you also understand that this poll was just polemic and doesn't tell us anything!

I hope you understand that. I think the thread itself is important and interesting, I only didn't like the poll. In fact, I like that you report about this tournament in our forum, so nothing is wrong :)
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-16 13:22 Edited 2007-12-16 13:29
I added the Poll after the thread was well established to wind Alan and Turbo up after their comments ;-) I see you have deleted it - hmm
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2007-12-16 16:50
Damn, now I'm curious :)

Vas
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-16 16:58
Hi Vas,

It is kind of sad that 'Should Harvey shut Up' is an acceptable poll but mine was not. I guess the Mods see their roll as to defend the honour of a Fish at all costs ;-)

Have a great Christmas,

Harvey
Parent - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2007-12-16 17:04
Hi Harvey,

ok, we'll discuss it - sorry about that :)

Vas
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2007-12-16 17:18
OK, I should have removed the "Harvey threads", but at that time I didn't get any complain and I thought that it was a so obvious stupid thread and you seemed also to take it with humour (and didn't complain, in those threads the most users also were on your side) so I didn't remove it.

My intention is not to defend Rybka, but to set some limits. You post a lot of links to your forum (some kind of advertisement), which in some other fora wouldn't be allowed, but I let you do that. You post some ugly pictures of dead fish, which really hurts my feelings, but I let you do that... I think it shouldn't be a too big problem for you that I removed that little poll ;) .
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-16 17:21 Edited 2007-12-16 17:28
sigh :( Did anyone complain about the poll? As far as the Fish goes - lighten up it is a joke. Vas wanted more than just carrots this week - I am working on it.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2007-12-16 17:23 Edited 2007-12-16 17:30
Yes- it was me. I pressed the report button, wrote a complaint, opened the forum again, saw my complain and removed your poll. is that ok? :)
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-16 17:25
no its bull shit.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2007-12-16 17:30
Is it so important that it was because of a complaint? Anyway, sorry again, Harvey, for not removing those threads and polls against you. I should have done it without waiting for a complaint by you, I hope something like this won't happen again. Can we now be friends again? ;)
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-12-16 17:55 Edited 2007-12-16 18:15
Is it so important that it was because of a complaint? Anyway, sorry again, Harvey, for not removing those threads and polls against you. I should have done it without waiting for a complaint by you, I hope something like this won't happen again. Can we now be friends again? ;-)

Felix,

You ask is it so important that it was because of a complaint. I only asked the question because you let all other threads stand unless there is a complaint. As to your earlier remarks if you are really offended by my fish Recipes then we have a problem - i have no intention of stopping this style of posting. So make a decision now ban me or don't.

As for your last question Friends can have arguments and still be friends :)

Harvey
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