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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Dagh v Nick fun game 2
- - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-10 12:21
1. e4 e5 :smile:
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-10 12:31
2. errrrrrmmmmmmm, ok, let's try Nf3. Almost played f4, though :lol:
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-10 12:50

> Almost played f4, though :lol:


I think we solved that already - on April 1 last year :lol:

[Event "Dagh v Nick"]
[Site "Rybka Forum"]
[Date "2013.09.10"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Dagh"]
[Black "Nick"]
[Result "*"]

r1bqkbnr/pppp1ppp/2n5/4p3/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 3


1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 *
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-11 15:29
I have no clue what to play. 3. c3, or 3. Bb5, or 3. Bc4, or 3. d4.

What about you choose for me? Really, I have no preference. I will do my best in whatever line.
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-11 15:40
:lol: Bb5 is the usual choice, but pick something!  Here is my book ...
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-11 15:48
I was not aware that Nel-son's book was that small.

OK, it looks like 3. Bb5 is a good move.
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-11 15:59
Daring you now to avoid the Berlin :grin:

[Event "Dagh v Nick"]
[Site "Rybka Forum"]
[Date "2013.09.11"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Dagh"]
[Black "Nick"]
[Result "*"]

r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/1B2p3/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R w KQkq - 0 4


1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 *

> I was not aware that Nel-son's book was that small.


Your guess that that column is sourced from Nelson is correct, in hindsight I should have changed the name of it!  It's a ctg (I don't have the source games) for which I swapped some private games for at least a year ago now (I think).  It's built from such a small window in time from Playchess, I'm not sure he'd like me to reveal how small though.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2013-09-11 22:21
No disrespect intended but why are these fun games been played on this thread instead of corr thread.
The first game was nothing special as you guys know.
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-11 22:39
Dagh and I got a little bored with the main forum being swamped by a troll.  You're right these games would normally be played in the corr section but if it's ok with you we'll finish our two games here.  Dagh playing anywhere is pretty special imo :grin:

Good luck in the WBCCC - are you going to win it this year, Paul?
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2013-09-11 22:51
Thanks for your reply Nick and I accept your explanation,doing my best in WBCCC trouble is my opponents are playing out of their skin against me.
Possibly because I have not lost a game yet and everyone wants to take me down,only a matter of time of course,been on edge a couple of times.:smile:
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2013-09-11 23:50
Ditch the Nelson column; it's not worth much in terms of providing insight.  Your Vault column's numbers most resemble my book.  For the main moves they are close, for the sidelines there's more of a margin of error.
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-12 16:20
Dagh has some scheduling problems so we won't finish our Ruy here after all.

Your "Nel" column, although old is still quite useful, I still see some lines in it that I don't have anywhere else.

One thing I wanted to mention, user keoki010 just pointed out to me that Aquarium now has the ability to display draw percentages (third columm in each group of the image) - thanks keoki010 I didn't know this.
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2013-09-12 16:39
Well, that's very useful!  It's really a sine qua non, in my opinion.
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-17 00:42
[Event "Dagh v Nick"]
[Site "Rybka Forum"]
[Date "2013.09.11"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Dagh"]
[Black "Nick"]
[Result "*"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. 0-0
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-17 00:49
Ok, we're back on!  (Now I'm worried :grin:)

[Event "Dagh v Nick"]
[Site "Rybka Forum"]
[Date "2013.09.11"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Dagh"]
[Black "Nick"]
[Result "*"]

r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/2n5/1B2p3/4n3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq - 0 5


1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Nxe4 *

Go Kramnik!
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-17 00:51
5. d4
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-17 00:58
[Event "Dagh v Nick"]
[Site "Rybka Forum"]
[Date "2013.09.11"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Dagh"]
[Black "Nick"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C67"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Nxe4 5. d4 Nd6 *
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-17 01:00
6. Bxc6
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-17 01:05
[Event "Dagh v Nick"]
[Site "Rybka Forum"]
[Date "2013.09.11"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Dagh"]
[Black "Nick"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C67"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Nxe4 5. d4 Nd6 6. Bxc6 dxc6

(Conditional: 7. dxe5 Nf5 8. Qxd8+ Kxd8 *)
Parent - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-17 01:09
Accepted, I will think a sec or two or maybe a bit longer for next move.
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-17 02:33 Edited 2013-09-17 02:36
9. Rd1+

and if 9...Ke8 10 Nc3
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-17 05:23
Conditional accepted

[Site "Rybka Forum"]
[Date "2013.09.11"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Dagh"]
[Black "Nick"]
[Result "*"]

r1b1k2r/ppp1bppp/2p5/4Pn2/8/2N2N2/PPP2PPP/R1BR2K1 w - - 0 11


1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Nxe4 5. d4 Nd6 6. Bxc6 dxc6 7. dxe5 Nf5 8. Qxd8+ Kxd8 9. Rd1+ Ke8 10. Nc3 Be7 *

You would not fall for the line in the WBCCC Berlin game where Mark Eldridge won as black :grin:
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2013-09-17 19:59
White with 53% and 66% draws, for goodness sake.  After ten moves!
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-17 21:12
In January 2012 I played the Berlin as white against GM Lutz (at least I'm pretty sure it was him) in an early InfinityChess freestyle tournament.  We drew and at the time he said that 4.d3 avoiding the Berlin was maybe a better try for white.  Dagh knows this though so I'm wondering if he's found something new for white down the line in the Berlin.
Parent - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-17 21:17
There is nothing to be found I am afraid, except lots of draws. :twisted:

The Berlin seems to me a bit like Hydra. Except here you never manage to chop off a head before another one pops up.
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-17 21:15
[Site "Rybka Forum"]
[Date "2013.09.11"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Dagh"]
[Black "Nick"]
[Result "*"]

r1b1k2r/ppp1bppp/2p5/4Pn2/8/1PN2N2/P1P2PPP/R1BR2K1 b - -


1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Nxe4 5. d4 Nd6 6. Bxc6 dxc6 7. dxe5 Nf5 8. Qxd8+ Kxd8 9. Rd1+ Ke8 10. Nc3 Be7 11. b3
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-18 08:24
[Site "Rybka Forum"]
[Date "2013.09.11"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Dagh"]
[Black "Nick"]
[Result "*"]

r3k2r/ppp1bppp/2p1b3/4Pn2/8/1PN2N2/P1P2PPP/R1BR2K1 w - - 0 12


1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Nxe4 5. d4 Nd6 6. Bxc6 dxc6 7. dxe5 Nf5 8. Qxd8+ Kxd8 9. Rd1+ Ke8 10. Nc3 Be7 11. b3 Be6 *

There appear to be many reasonable moves for black here I ended up tossing a coin!
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-18 08:57
12. Bb2
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-18 09:21
12 ... Rd8
Parent - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-18 09:24
Will think a bit.
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-18 18:11
13. Ne4
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-18 20:01
13 ... Bd5
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-18 21:54
14. Re1
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-18 21:59
14 ... Kd7

3r3r/pppkbppp/2p5/3bPn2/4N3/1P3N2/PBP2PPP/R3R1K1 w - - 0 15
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-18 22:17
15. c4
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-18 22:25
15 ... Be6
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-18 22:52
16. Rad1 and conditional:

16...Kc8 17. Nfg5 and if 17...Bxg5 18. Nxg5.
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-19 01:19
[Event "Dagh v Nick"]
[Site "Rybka Forum"]
[Date "2013.09.11"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Dagh"]
[Black "Nick"]
[Result "*"]

2kr3r/ppp2pp1/2p1b2p/4PnN1/2P5/1P6/PB3PPP/3RR1K1 w - - 0 19


1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Nxe4 5. d4 Nd6 6. Bxc6 dxc6 7. dxe5 Nf5 8. Qxd8+ Kxd8 9. Rd1+ Ke8 10. Nc3 Be7 11. b3 Be6 12. Bb2 Rd8 13. Ne4 Bd5 14. Re1 Kd7 15. c4 Be6 16. Rad1+ Kc8 17. Nfg5 Bxg5 18. Nxg5 h6 *

Conditional accepted.
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-19 01:34
19. Ne4
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-19 01:49
19 ... b6
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-19 01:54
20. f3
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-19 03:14
20 ... c5
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-19 04:33
21. Kf2 draw offer.
Parent - - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-19 05:01 Edited 2013-09-19 05:04
Draw accepted.  Thanks very much for the game Dagh!  I attached a small 109 game 1s+2s match which gives a minute advantage to black but very little doubt that we would draw if we were playing Sofia rules :grin:

I guess the Berlin offers more chances for white OTB?

[Site "Rybka Forum"]
[Date "2013.09.11"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Dagh"]
[Black "Nick"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]

2kr3r/p1p2pp1/1p2b2p/2p1Pn2/2P1N3/1P3P2/PB3KPP/3RR3 b - - 0 21


1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Nxe4 5. d4 Nd6 6. Bxc6 dxc6 7. dxe5 Nf5 8. Qxd8+ Kxd8 9. Rd1+ Ke8 10. Nc3 Be7 11. b3 Be6 12. Bb2 Rd8 13. Ne4 Bd5 14.Re1 Kd7 15. c4 Be6 16. Rad1+ Kc8 17. Nfg5 Bxg5 18. Nxg5 h6 19. Ne4 b6 20. f3 c5 21. Kf2 draw agreed (h5) 1/2-1/2
Attachment: Dagh-v-Nick.7z (24k)
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2013-09-19 05:27
Thank you too, Nick!

I agree, both sides have so many ways to reach a draw here and there are no grand schemes to plan for or tough things to solve, so we would waste each others time trying to make the other side blunder IMHO, at least that's my taste about a situation like this (just as when we agreed draw in the first game).

Yes, what about OTB play? I dunno, all depends on the level of the players of course, but it seems not a good long term plan to try and learn the Berlin as white, lol. Black has so many ways to play it, some of them quite safe.

I learned a lot from this game, since you played 10...Be7 rather than 10...Ne7. Hence the game reminded me of a Freestyle I had against Jiri, he also played Kh8 + Be7 + Be6 + Rd8, but I played Bf4 in that game. But now I think black can play Kh8 + Be7 against any white setup, and then either Be6 + Rd8 + maybe h5, or sometimes b6 + Bb7. Of course, perhaps there are some endgame issues I haven't noticed, but just going with engine eval, it seems a safe way. I have the Berlin after 8...Kxd8 analysed down to 0.07 in IDeA (Houdini 3).

Thanks again, let me know if you would like another crack at the Najdorf.
Parent - By Nick (*****) Date 2013-09-19 12:29

> let me know if you would like another crack at the Najdorf.


Sure thing, Dagh! I'll start something in the corr chess section :grin:
Parent - By Kappatoo (*****) Date 2013-09-19 07:26
I haven't checked what the engines say here, but in my view exchanging the knight for black's dark-squared bishop is a strategic mistake. After this, only black can be better.
Well, as I said, I haven't checked this with an engine, so there are probably subtleties in this concrete position which I am missing.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Dagh v Nick fun game 2

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