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- By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-08-31 21:42
Scott, good luck and enjoy our little challenge-match! Best wishes, Anton.

1. *

rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
- By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-01 00:01
1. Nf3 *
- - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-01 00:17
Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-01 09:01
Difficult decision here, sharp lines are definitely not what i want to play considering the challenge-conditions... :grin:, was more looking to the Kramnik-approach and the 1...Nf6 you usually play here. :confused:

2. e4 *
- - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-01 10:40
Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7

rnbqk1nr/ppppppbp/6p1/8/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 3


> Difficult decision here, sharp lines are definitely not what i want to play considering the challenge-conditions... :grin:, was more looking to the Kramnik-approach and the 1...Nf6 you usually play here.


I try to keep opponents guessing, :smile:
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-01 13:01

> I try to keep opponents guessing, :smile:


I expected 2....Bg7 :grin:

3. d4 *
- - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-01 14:46
Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3. d4 d6

Gee, I am already way down in both games according to engines, :eek:

rnbqk1nr/ppp1ppbp/3p2p1/8/3PP3/5N2/PPP2PPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 4
Parent - - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-01 15:12
I know you are limiting yourself as far as engine thinking and doing more manual thinking. I always try to do that, but not quite to that extent.

But I better start playing better moves, or you won't have much to think about. :eek:
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-01 15:42

> I know you are limiting yourself as far as engine thinking and doing more manual thinking. I always try to do that, but not quite to that extent.


I'm currently just following the green moves in my little analysis-book, think engines aren't very useful in such fianchetto-openings... they think white is especially good, but truth is black's dark bishop can immediately turn the table when white plays an inaccuracy.

4. Nc3 *
- - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-01 16:31
Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3. d4 d6 4. Nc3 Nf6


rnbqk2r/ppp1ppbp/3p1np1/8/3PP3/2N2N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R w KQkq - 0 5
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-01 16:37
Here i will step in my first analysis-session, therefore don't expect any move soon as there is a lot of manually work to be done by me checking all potential transpositions... we were interestingly following the legendary NATIONAL12-Schachmatt where Matt continued 4...a6.
Parent - - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-01 16:49 Edited 2013-09-01 16:58
Well, we are now in a Pirc position which I am very comfortable with, :grin: It's all I played for years, but I'm sure you knew that.

And of course, use all the time you need. I will be slowing down soon myself.
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-01 17:01 Edited 2013-09-01 17:03

> And of course, use all the time you need.


Thanks for your understanding. Think i will investigate in 8 different moves.

> Well, we are now in a Pirc position which I am very comfortable with, :grin: It's all I played for years, but I'm sure you knew that.


Well, the Pirc seems to be lowest common opening-denominator we could agree on :grin:... my original plans were way different (maybe something like a reversed Sicilian or some kind of English), but that's chess-life...
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-01 22:42
Well, with my 60sec-restriction it is simply impossible to do useful opening-analysis, therefore "feeling" decides - somehow i didn't like the mainline here :grin:...

5. Be3 *
- - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-02 09:16
Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3. d4 d6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Be3 0-0

rnbq1rk1/ppp1ppbp/3p1np1/8/3PP3/2N1BN2/PPP2PPP/R2QKB1R w KQ - 0 6
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-02 10:24
Well, what can we say about this opening: Obviously 4. c4 would have been the better approach as i can't get in f4 due my f3-knight either, but that would have basically/potentially come down to playing the KID - which i wanted to avoid because i play it myself with black. In each case, this Pirc is not really modern :lol: (no c4,no f4) and therefore it will be difficult for white to find something. I tried a lot positions in 5. Bb5+?, wondering why Matt prefered 4...a6 instead of 4...Nf6, but found that black would just get another useful development-move. Besides that there were 5. Be2/Bd3/Bc4/Bf4/Bg5/h3 to consider, but as you can imagine brain starts to calm when you try to get in all potential combinations of black's defence 5...O-O/a6/c6/...

6. Be2 *
- - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-02 18:39
Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3. d4 d6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Be3 0-0 6. Be2 c6

Always been partial to this line, the engines don't like it though.


rnbq1rk1/pp2ppbp/2pp1np1/8/3PP3/2N1BN2/PPP1BPPP/R2QK2R w KQ - 0 7
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-03 00:15

> Always been partial to this line, the engines don't like it though.


I think it is a natural development-move in this position.

7. Qd2 *
- - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-03 14:05
Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3. d4 d6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Be3 0-0 6. Be2 c6 7. Qd2 Nbd7


r1bq1rk1/pp1nppbp/2pp1np1/8/3PP3/2N1BN2/PPPQBPPP/R3K2R w KQ - 0 8
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-03 20:04
8. h3 *
- - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-03 20:17
Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3. d4 d6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Be3 0-0 6. Be2 c6 7. Qd2 Nbd7 8. h3 b5

r1bq1rk1/p2nppbp/2pp1np1/1p6/3PP3/2N1BN1P/PPPQBPP1/R3K2R w KQ b6 0 9


I think I'm ok so far, we'll see... :wink:
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-03 20:42

> I think I'm ok so far, we'll see... :wink:


Yes, your 7...Nbd7 is surprisingly pretty good - i obviously had just a quick look on it and investigated my analysis time more in your other alternatives...

9. a3 *
- - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-03 23:35
Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3. d4 d6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Be3 0-0 6. Be2 c6 7. Qd2 Nbd7 8. h3 b5 9. a3 Qc7

r1b2rk1/p1qnppbp/2pp1np1/1p6/3PP3/P1N1BN1P/1PPQBPP1/R3K2R w KQ - 0 10


This one I am happy with so far...
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-04 07:42 Edited 2013-09-04 07:47

> This one I am happy with so far...


When i remember correctly then such c6&b5-systems are in spirit of the "Tiger's approach", but guess you know this book already - or at least Matt does (as Tiger also likes to play 4...a6). :lol:

10. Bh6 *
- - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-04 14:52
Starting to get tough now.

Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3. d4 d6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Be3 0-0 6. Be2 c6 7. Qd2 Nbd7 8. h3 b5 9. a3 Qc7 10. Bh6 a5

r1b2rk1/2qnppbp/2pp1npB/pp6/3PP3/P1N2N1P/1PPQBPP1/R3K2R w KQ a6 0 11
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-04 17:52

> Starting to get tough now.


Well, its just natural that my challenge-approach oversees a lot of things -especially as i'm playing too fast :lol:-; and i must admit 60sec is really just a snapshot especially on aged hardware, but i still think i can hold the position... so let's see whether you complicate matters. :smile:

11. h4 *
Parent - - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-04 21:54

> so let's see whether you complicate matters. :smile:


I just trying to hold on, let alone complicate matters, :eek:
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-04 22:24

> I just trying to hold on


:surprised: Honestly, that would surprise me most when h4 is good for something in this position as well... i think Nbd7 was a good move and watered a lot of my hopes for a king-side attack which i obviously had in mind; most likely O-O in this position is objectively better, but with the challenge-approach it would be difficult for me to find the right combinations of positional squeezing the position (if there is anything to squeeze at all), so i moved this one pretty into the unknown - just to keep the spirit of the plan.
Parent - - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-05 00:24

> most likely O-O in this position is objectively better, but with the challenge-approach it would be difficult for me to find the right combinations of positional squeezing the position (if there is anything to squeeze at all), so i moved this one pretty into the unknown - just to keep the spirit of the plan.


Actually, I agree with you. Through the years the h4 attack on the KID or Pirc set-up has always been a strong way to go about the attack. The engines like castling better, but they would.

Already this shows your human influence.

Sending an "if" move. Of course your move leaves the square of g4 for me, the chance to get more pieces on the kingside to defend. I wanted

to continue with queenside expansion, but it is what it is.

Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3. d4 d6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Be3 0-0 6. Be2 c6 7. Qd2 Nbd7 8. h3 b5 9. a3 Qc7 10. Bh6 a5 11. h4 Bxh6 12. if Qxh6 Ng4

r1b2rk1/2qnpp1p/2pp2pQ/pp6/3PP1nP/P1N2N2/1PP1BPP1/R3K2R w KQ - 0 13
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-05 12:42
I also thought this is the best move here - even thought may attack ends here because a5 makes it more shine than a6 which i looked at Tuesday reaching that (similar) position, but seems there is plenty of complications left; will give you my thoughts (and moves) about the current position tomorrow, [must :yell:] going to bowling+dinner now. Have a good day, Anton.
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-05 22:42
Ok, spent my last minutes awake today with this game (guess i'm a little addicted :lol:) and clicked through all the potential queen-squares available... Qg7 and Qe3 could be excluded quickly, Qf4 is not that good, Qc1 a lot better yet losing complexities, but final decision was difficult between the two remaining candidates Qd2 and Qg5... still i'm not to happy that i needed two moves to bring h4 in - which basically means you got one development move more than i would like to admit you :wink:, on the other side -with your excellent Nd7 and following- there was no chance to bring it in a single move (or i missed one of course).

>> most likely O-O in this position is objectively better
> Actually, I agree with you. Through the years the h4 attack on the KID or Pirc set-up has always been a strong way to go about the attack. The engines like castling better, but they would.


Yes, king-attacks always attract my fantasy. In case of castling king-side i most likely should have done this way earlier, maybe putting in a positional a4 to stop your march on the queenside and leaving out h3 for it as Be2 was in place... think that would be ppipper's style. :smile:

> I wanted to continue with queenside expansion, but it is what it is.


Lets wait and see, the advanced pawns may be pretty useful in the endgames to come... one never knows.

> Already this shows your human influence.


Thank you, i'm enjoying games and communication with you very much. Enjoy analysing!

12. Qxh6 Ng4 13. Qg5 *
Parent - - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-05 22:57

> Thank you, i'm enjoying games and communication with you very much.


I likewise. I wrote this now because I need to start looking hard and hopefully adding a little human touch of my own to the games. :grin:

I would welcome other wbccc'ers, especially Nelson, :smile:, to chime in.
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2013-09-06 01:57
Not much to say here.  Current edition of the book has 11.h4 as the novelty.
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2013-09-06 06:53

> maybe putting in a positional a4 to stop your march on the queenside


I didn't look at the game very deep, but you are right here. There is no rush to open up all the lines in the other flank, so it seems a very nice no-risk strategy. Such a4 moves they also play interesting roles in a future endgames when b pawns still exist and they are behind...
Parent - - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-06 10:03
Thanks guys, :grin:
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-06 12:06
Was 13. Qd2 better in your opinion? I will publish my complete analysis-PGN of the 13th move when game has a little progressed beyond, or i will give you the most critical line i had in mind when you name me the move you had in mind to 13. Qd2. In each case, enjoy analysing! :smile:
Parent - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-06 12:56
To tell the truth, I hadn't decided yet if you went Qd2. I probably would've made the same move of Ndf6, but I needed to look at it.
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-06 12:04
I agree with you, in a WBCCC-game i would have gone that a4/O-O way too, but given the challenge-conditions it is just to difficult to find the right positional path for me.
- - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-06 12:53
Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3. d4 d6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Be3 0-0 6. Be2 c6 7. Qd2 Nbd7 8. h3 b5 9. a3 Qc7 10. Bh6 a5 11. h4 Bxh6 12. Qxf6 Ng4 13. Qg5 Ndf6

r1b2rk1/2q1pp1p/2pp1np1/pp4Q1/3PP1nP/P1N2N2/1PP1BPP1/R3K2R w KQ - 0 14
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-06 15:30
That's why i always said 7. Ndb7 being a good move... it maybe cost me a necessary tempo for my master-plan... :grin: Will post my 13. Qd2-analysis tree in two or three moves...

14. h5 *
Parent - - By keoki010 (Silver) [us] Date 2013-09-10 16:33
Scott, isn't 12. Qxh6 not 12. Qxf6 ???  I don't think the Queen moves in crooked lines... :red::roll:
Parent - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-10 17:10
yep, :red::lol:
- - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-06 17:26

> Will post my 13. Qd2-analysis tree in two or three moves...


I looked at that a little deeper, and I am kinda glad you didn't play it. It's not a big difference, but I think 13. Qd2 was the better move.

Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3. d4 d6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Be3 0-0 6. Be2 c6 7. Qd2 Nbd7 8. h3 b5 9. a3 Qc7 10. Bh6 a5 11. h4 Bxh6 12. Qxf6 Ng4 13. Qg5 Ndf6 14. h5 e5


r1b2rk1/2q2p1p/2pp1np1/pp2p1QP/3PP1n1/P1N2N2/1PP1BPP1/R3K2R w KQ e6 0 15


Btw, I liked that article you found on Dagh and Co. I played in the first freestyle which was won by Zacks. A lot of the names in the article were very familiar.
Like Flying Saucers, Cato the Younger etc. It's nice to know who they were. What about flying fatman? Is he the same as flying saucers?
Parent - - By Nick (*****) [gb] Date 2013-09-06 18:39

> What about flying fatman? Is he the same as flying saucers?


Generally I was behind the flyingfatman userid (my daughter chose the name from an episode of "The Simpsons").  However, Dagh did play on flyingfatman a couple of times, this game for instance:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/09/AR2007090901378.html

That was all Dagh.  I was meant to be assisting him remotely but my datacentre got struck by lightning (seriously!), so he flew solo.
Parent - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-06 18:45
Thanks Nick, :smile: I had been on the losing end of some games with that nick, so I guess you, :grin:

Also, nice article!
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-06 20:24
15. h6 *

> I looked at that a little deeper, and I am kinda glad you didn't play it. It's not a big difference, but I think 13. Qd2 was the better move.


:cry: Wished it wasn't true...

> Btw, I liked that article you found on Dagh and Co. I played in the first freestyle which was won by Zacks.


Nice to hear Scott, i was just curious about who is "Dagh" - therefore i googled "Dagh correspondence chess" and found it. :smile:
- - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-07 13:37
Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3. d4 d6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Be3 0-0 6. Be2 c6 7. Qd2 Nbd7 8. h3 b5 9. a3 Qc7 10. Bh6 a5 11. h4 Bxh6 12. Qxf6 Ng4 13. Qg5 Ndf6 14. h5 e5 15. h6 Nh5


r1b2rk1/2q2p1p/2pp2pP/pp2p1Qn/3PP1n1/P1N2N2/1PP1BPP1/R3K2R w KQ - 0 16


Now the games will be getting interesting, :smile:
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-07 16:24 Edited 2013-09-07 16:32

> Now the games will be getting interesting, :smile:


I don't think so, 15...Nh5 leads now to a longer draw-down line which sweeps the complexities out of the game, positions that arise feel pretty dead... :wink: Sadly, my analysis showed that 13. Qd2 isn't really better because black can easily build a (~-0.75eval) fortress in the critical lines, but obviously there are more ways to go wrong. Maybe you have some kind of kingside-attack in the other game which i can't see currently with the challenge-approach. :smile::confused:

16. Nh2 *
- - By Scott (****) Date 2013-09-07 17:16

> I don't think so, 15...Nh5 leads now to a longer draw-down line which sweeps the complexities out of the game.


Like Eros says, first Black has to equalize. 15. ...Nh5 was the only move I could find that helps achieve that goal.

Anton vs Scott
1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3. d4 d6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Be3 0-0 6. Be2 c6 7. Qd2 Nbd7 8. h3 b5 9. a3 Qc7 10. Bh6 a5 11. h4 Bxh6 12. Qxf6 Ng4 13. Qg5 Ndf6 14. h5 e5 15. h6 Nh5 16. Nh2 f6


r1b2rk1/2q4p/2pp1ppP/pp2p1Qn/3PP1n1/P1N5/1PP1BPPN/R3K2R w KQ - 0 17
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2013-09-07 17:24

> Like Eros says, first Black has to equalize.


Absolutely, you have to control risks - and when its an only option you have to go that way, i have no different approach in the other game... its just that white shouldn't allow black equalize, but thats more easily said than done. :smile:

17. Qd2 *
Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / Antares vs. Scott
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