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Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / NATIONAL12 Vs. Uly (Nightmare Challenge И) 2-0
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- - By Uly (Gold) Date 2012-08-11 03:40
Thanks for accepting my challenge Paul, let's see if white has a win here :smile:

1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 a6 8. Qd2 Be7 9. Be2 O-O 10. O-O b5 11. Nd1 b4 12. Rc1 c4 13. b3 Nb6 14. Bf2 a5 15. Ne3 c3 16. Qe1 a4 17. Rd1 Nd7 18. f5 Ndb8 19. f6 gxf6 20. exf6 Bxf6 21. Ng4 Be7

rnbq1rk1/4bp1p/2n1p3/3p4/pp1P2N1/1Pp2N2/P1P1BBPP/3RQRK1 w - -


Original unfinishable game.

Previous challenges.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-11 22:43
1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 a6 8. Qd2 Be7 9. Be2 O-O 10. O-O b5 11. Nd1 b4 12. Rc1 c4 13. b3 Nb6 14. Bf2 a5 15. Ne3 c3 16. Qe1 a4 17. Rd1 Nd7 18. f5 Ndb8 19. f6 gxf6 20. exf6 Bxf6 21. Ng4 Be7 22.Bg3

rnbq1rk1/4bp1p/2n1p3/3p4/pp1P2N1/1Pp2NB1/P1P1B1PP/3RQRK1 b - - 0 22
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-12 00:28
Barnard has said his move was 22.Be3 which i agree is a very good move,in view of this i will make a new post.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-08-12 00:33
im sorry,but my computer was not responsive the last few minutes,that is why i never was able to post it

yes,all my analisis was for 22.Be3,and for me is a winning move...from what i analized,22.Bg3 gives also advantage,but i dont know if enough to win,and with the other move im sure at 99 % that is a winning move
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-12 00:48
Dont worry when you claimed  white had a win you must have done deep AN,much deeper than anything i had done.In a corr game i would have spent much more time looking at move 22,however when someone claims a straight win,i assumed it was easy.

This move 22.Be3 is indeed very good and a great find by Barnard.Lets see how it plays out,its not yet a winning position but its looking good.
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-08-12 00:56
i never told is easy,i just told is almost a win;a win can take 30 moves to materialize,but is a win from 30 moves ago :smile:

>its not yet a winning position but its looking good


when you will play about 5-8 more moves,you will see how you think is an almost won game :smile:
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-12 00:30
1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 a6 8. Qd2 Be7 9. Be2 O-O 10. O-O b5 11. Nd1 b4 12. Rc1 c4 13. b3 Nb6 14. Bf2 a5 15. Ne3 c3 16. Qe1 a4 17. Rd1 Nd7 18. f5 Ndb8 19. f6 gxf6 20. exf6 Bxf6 21. Ng4 Be7 22.Be3

rnbq1rk1/4bp1p/2n1p3/3p4/pp1P2N1/1Pp1BN2/P1P1B1PP/3RQRK1 b - - 0 22
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2012-08-12 09:26
Yes, Be3 was the expected move though I have a "black hole" of drawn variations I hope you can't escape :smile:

1.d4 e6 2.e4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 a6 8.Qd2 Be7 9.Be2 O-O 10.O-O b5 11.Nd1 b4 12.Rc1 c4 13.b3 Nb6 14.Bf2 a5 15.Ne3 c3 16.Qe1 a4 17.Rd1 Nd7 18.f5 Ndb8 19.f6 gxf6 20.exf6 Bxf6 21.Ng4 Be7 22.Be3 f5

rnbq1rk1/4b2p/2n1p3/3p1p2/pp1P2N1/1Pp1BN2/P1P1B1PP/3RQRK1 w - f6


22...axb3 seemed losing here, though, my defense was found with a process of elimination (I've been trying to find a draw for these variations since May 27th).
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-12 21:12
1.d4 e6 2.e4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 a6 8.Qd2 Be7 9.Be2 O-O 10.O-O b5 11.Nd1 b4 12.Rc1 c4 13.b3 Nb6 14.Bf2 a5 15.Ne3 c3 16.Qe1 a4 17.Rd1 Nd7 18.f5 Ndb8 19.f6 gxf6 20.exf6 Bxf6 21.Ng4 Be7 22.Be3 f5 24.Qg3

rnbq1rk1/4b2p/2n1p3/3p1p2/pp1P2N1/1Pp1BNQ1/P1P1B1PP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 23
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2012-08-15 21:05
1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 a6 8. Qd2 Be7 9. Be2 O-O 10. O-O b5 11. Nd1 b4 12. Rc1 c4 13. b3 Nb6 14. Bf2 a5 15. Ne3 c3 16. Qe1 a4 17. Rd1 Nd7 18. f5 Ndb8 19. f6 gxf6 20. exf6 Bxf6 21. Ng4 Be7 22. Be3 f5 23. Qg3 Kh8

rnbq1r1k/4b2p/2n1p3/3p1p2/pp1P2N1/1Pp1BNQ1/P1P1B1PP/3R1RK1 w - -


Again, with the alternatives losing.
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-08-19 10:44
Kh8 also losses;surely later,but also losses
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-08-12 23:34
yes,22...axb3 is lossing,and sooner than your other moves,like 23...f5;even if 23...f5 also losses,it gives a harder game to white,and if white plays pseudo-moves,you can equalize
- - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-19 15:11
1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 a6 8. Qd2 Be7 9. Be2 O-O 10. O-O b5 11. Nd1 b4 12. Rc1 c4 13. b3 Nb6 14. Bf2 a5 15. Ne3 c3 16. Qe1 a4 17. Rd1 Nd7 18. f5 Ndb8 19. f6 gxf6 20. exf6 Bxf6 21. Ng4 Be7 22. Be3 f5 23. Qg3 Kh8 24.Bh6

rnbq1r1k/4b2p/2n1p2B/3p1p2/pp1P2N1/1Pp2NQ1/P1P1B1PP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 24
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-08-19 20:45
Hi Paul

what about 24.Nfe5 instead of 24.Bh6?just one thought
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-19 21:02
I spent a long time looking at 24.Nfe5 but could not find a win,i am sure 24.Bh6 is stronger but its very deep.Initially it does not appear good,but it is.:smile:
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-08-19 21:05
im sure your analisis are better than mine;after about 14 hours of running time,i only reached a depth 27 :confused: (unassisted)
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-19 21:17
After 24.Nfe5 the best eval i could get against what i considered blacks best play was 0.55,not to be sneezed at for sure and different engines came to same conclusion,i had to force Houdini to play 24.Rh6 as it would not change from Nfe5,it eventually saw the light with a pile of fail lows by black.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-08-19 21:28
what i found is +0.71,but it can be only due to my obsolete hardware
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-19 21:39
I managed to get d26 with R4 and that is deep with Rybka when you add on 3 its equiv to d29 with Houdini.
Thats the only advantage with big hardware you can do things faster,In corr chess its not so important if you only play a few games like myself.
Cant you get a loan or buy a cheap secondhand Quad,then H2 would run at at least 7,500 kN/s even at 2.4.
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-08-19 21:45
with present position,with laptop kn/s are about 1500

not,i cant buy it or have a loan,i will tell you pm why
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2012-08-20 21:16
I could blow up 24.Nfe5 to Rybka 1.00s scores down to several tricky endgames in where I was having difficulty finding the best defenses, so due to its complexity it was the move I was expecting. It was also the move I've been focusing on since May :smile:

After Bh6 things sharpen up and look less complex to play, unless you have a surprising move I'm missing.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-20 21:49
Sorry i buggered up your AN Uly,:smile:Maybe i am wrong,time will tell.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-20 22:17
Lets see whether BigBen agrees with me,it will give the lazy bugger something to do.:smile:
Parent - By BigBen (****) Date 2012-08-21 19:39

>Lets see whether BigBen agrees with me,it will give the lazy bugger something to do


Sounds about right :razz:

Personally I think Bh6 is the better move, there is a forced little sequence now (I think) then I tried various engines and was getting +1.3 or more depending on the engine, it was something like 35 or so ply from the position now but that can change with a single ply ... Of course the Nfe5 line also tends to win the exchange but gives black more chances or so it seems but still better for white.

Regards
`The Lazy Bugger` :lol::razz:
PS: Paul I may actually have time in the next few days to put a plug on those headphones and get the setup plugged in ...
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2012-08-24 17:55
1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 a6 8. Qd2 Be7 9. Be2 O-O 10. O-O b5 11. Nd1 b4 12. Rc1 c4 13. b3 Nb6 14. Bf2 a5 15. Ne3 c3 16. Qe1 a4 17. Rd1 Nd7 18. f5 Ndb8 19. f6 gxf6 20. exf6 Bxf6 21. Ng4 Be7 22. Be3 f5 23. Qg3 Kh8 24. Bh6 Rg8

rnbq2rk/4b2p/2n1p2B/3p1p2/pp1P2N1/1Pp2NQ1/P1P1B1PP/3R1RK1 w - -
- - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-21 23:07
Its usually me who is on wrong end of a lost position in these nightmare challenges.However this game is slightly diff.I believe i can win but for different reasons from move Barnard intended and Uly expected,as BigBen said white stands better after 24.Nfe5 and as i said previously i could not find a win after this move,in lines i expect to be played i think i can eventually win.

If you just look at board as a chessplayer you must think white is doing well,everything lined up for attack,lets see if a computer can defend it.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2012-08-22 01:48

> lets see if a computer can defend it.


Haha! I doubt a computer can defend it, in my analysis, a computer couldn't defend 24.Nfe5 either. I still think I can defend it and do better than the computer, though it's not an easy task in the least, but that's what Nightmares are about :smile:
- - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-24 20:46
1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 a6 8. Qd2 Be7 9. Be2 O-O 10. O-O b5 11. Nd1 b4 12. Rc1 c4 13. b3 Nb6 14. Bf2 a5 15. Ne3 c3 16. Qe1 a4 17. Rd1 Nd7 18. f5 Ndb8 19. f6 gxf6 20. exf6 Bxf6 21. Ng4 Be7 22. Be3 f5 23. Qg3 Kh8 24. Bh6 Rg8 25.Nfe5

rnbq2rk/4b2p/2n1p2B/3pNp2/pp1P2N1/1Pp3Q1/P1P1B1PP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 25
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2012-08-27 06:34
There must be a shocker coming as my mainline goes to a draw.

1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 a6 8. Qd2 Be7 9. Be2 O-O 10. O-O b5 11. Nd1 b4 12. Rc1 c4 13. b3 Nb6 14. Bf2 a5 15. Ne3 c3 16. Qe1 a4 17. Rd1 Nd7 18. f5 Ndb8 19. f6 gxf6 20. exf6 Bxf6 21. Ng4 Be7 22. Be3 f5 23. Qg3 Kh8 24. Bh6 Rg8 25. Nfe5 Qe8

rnb1q1rk/4b2p/2n1p2B/3pNp2/pp1P2N1/1Pp3Q1/P1P1B1PP/3R1RK1 w - -
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-27 10:03
1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 a6 8. Qd2 Be7 9. Be2 O-O 10. O-O b5 11. Nd1 b4 12. Rc1 c4 13. b3 Nb6 14. Bf2 a5 15. Ne3 c3 16. Qe1 a4 17. Rd1 Nd7 18. f5 Ndb8 19. f6 gxf6 20. exf6 Bxf6 21. Ng4 Be7 22. Be3 f5 23. Qg3 Kh8 24. Bh6 Rg8 25. Nfe5 Qe8 26.Bb5

rnb1q1rk/4b2p/2n1p2B/1B1pNp2/pp1P2N1/1Pp3Q1/P1P3PP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 26
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-27 10:41 Edited 2012-08-27 10:44
Assuming after 26.Bb5 you play 26...axb3 line goes 27.axb3 Rxg4 28.Nxg4 fxg4.

Now just looking at board there has to be a white win in there somewhere.:smile:
Parent - By Gizchehs Defender (***) Date 2012-08-27 12:14
'' The one who is the most Strategical should try to get a Silent,  quiet Position, so that Human intervention is asked for. ''
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2012-08-28 04:43
1.d4 e6 2.e4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 a6 8.Qd2 Be7 9.Be2 O-O 10.O-O b5 11.Nd1 b4 12.Rc1 c4 13.b3 Nb6 14.Bf2 a5 15.Ne3 c3 16.Qe1 a4 17.Rd1 Nd7 18.f5 Ndb8 19.f6 gxf6 20.exf6 Bxf6 21.Ng4 Be7 22.Be3 f5 23.Qg3 Kh8 24.Bh6 Rg8 25.Nfe5 Qe8 26.Bb5 Rxg4

rnb1q2k/4b2p/2n1p2B/1B1pNp2/pp1P2r1/1Pp3Q1/P1P3PP/3R1RK1 w - -
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-28 08:52
1.d4 e6 2.e4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 a6 8.Qd2 Be7 9.Be2 O-O 10.O-O b5 11.Nd1 b4 12.Rc1 c4 13.b3 Nb6 14.Bf2 a5 15.Ne3 c3 16.Qe1 a4 17.Rd1 Nd7 18.f5 Ndb8 19.f6 gxf6 20.exf6 Bxf6 21.Ng4 Be7 22.Be3 f5 23.Qg3 Kh8 24.Bh6 Rg8 25.Nfe5 Qe8 26.Bb5 Rxg4 27.Nxg4

rnb1q2k/4b2p/2n1p2B/1B1p1p2/pp1P2N1/1Pp3Q1/P1P3PP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 27
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-28 23:09
Not sure this was best move,however time will tell.:surprised:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2012-08-28 23:11
Line transposed to 26...axb3 around here.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-28 23:22
Is that you game move 26...axb3
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2012-08-28 23:23
No, I played 26...Rxg4.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2012-08-28 23:12 Edited 2012-08-28 23:17
[Deleted: Pasted wrong line]
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-28 23:17
dont think so,but i will have to recheck.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2012-08-28 23:19
Here's my move, I deleted the other line as it showed what my plan is ahead of time...

1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 a6 8. Qd2 Be7 9. Be2 O-O 10. O-O b5 11. Nd1 b4 12. Rc1 c4 13. b3 Nb6 14. Bf2 a5 15. Ne3 c3 16. Qe1 a4 17. Rd1 Nd7 18. f5 Ndb8 19. f6 gxf6 20. exf6 Bxf6 21. Ng4 Be7 22. Be3 f5 23. Qg3 Kh8 24. Bh6 Rg8 25. Nfe5 Qe8 26. Bb5 Rxg4 27. Nxg4 fxg4

rnb1q2k/4b2p/2n1p2B/1B1p4/pp1P2p1/1Pp3Q1/P1P3PP/3R1RK1 w - -
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-28 23:24
Ok i got it now.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-28 23:33
Are you using idea in this position,just wondering.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2012-08-28 23:37
No, I haven't used IDEA since the last game I lost with it :smile:, that was several years ago.

Recently Omprakash tempted me to go back to IDEA and try some new things, but I declined.

I'm pretty sure I'd have lost this game if I used IDEA, just like most of my games! :yell:
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-28 23:43
Agree with you on this,thats why i often argue with Jason on this matter whom i believe is best idea player on forum.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-28 23:50
Hving a bit of fun now,but Rybka keeps coming up with big green lines and i am not kidding.
- - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2012-08-29 00:27
1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 a6 8. Qd2 Be7 9. Be2 O-O 10. O-O b5 11. Nd1 b4 12. Rc1 c4 13. b3 Nb6 14. Bf2 a5 15. Ne3 c3 16. Qe1 a4 17. Rd1 Nd7 18. f5 Ndb8 19. f6 gxf6 20. exf6 Bxf6 21. Ng4 Be7 22. Be3 f5 23. Qg3 Kh8 24. Bh6 Rg8 25. Nfe5 Qe8 26. Bb5 Rxg4 27. Nxg4 fxg4 28.Rf2

rnb1q2k/4b2p/2n1p2B/1B1p4/pp1P2p1/1Pp3Q1/P1P2RPP/3R2K1 b - - 0 28
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2012-08-29 01:44
So that's the shocker, I was expecting Qxg4
Parent - - By BigBen (****) Date 2012-08-29 07:55

>So that's the shocker, I was expecting Qxg4


Rf2 is the move I had when I made my comments lol

Regards
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-08-29 11:55
so i was right about the game is a won game from black's 20 move :smile:
Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / NATIONAL12 Vs. Uly (Nightmare Challenge И) 2-0
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