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- - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-07-31 00:14
Your move,lets have fun.
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-07-31 21:37
Paul, thank you very much for the game(s) and setting up this thread, have fun!

1. d4 *

rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/3P4/8/PPP1PPPP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - 0 1
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-01 15:09
1...Nf6
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-01 21:18
Hope you had a great day! :smile:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 *

rnbqkb1r/pppppppp/5n2/8/2PP4/8/PP2PPPP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - 0 2
Parent - - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2012-08-17 14:12
This game has gone quiet.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-17 20:00
In that case

2...g6
Parent - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2012-08-17 20:40
Very good
- - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-17 23:31
Anton you know we left this game because of WBCCC 2012 and i dont wish to play same lines as WBCCC  games.
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-18 01:31

> Anton you know we left this game because of WBCCC 2012


Yes Paul, i'm absolutely fine with it... feel free to move whenever you want!

> and i dont wish to play same lines as WBCCC games.


Same lines at the same time to the running WBCCC games or in general?
In the latter case (in general) of course feel free to avoid the Gruenfeld here... :grin:
In each case have fun! :smile:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 *

rnbqkb1r/pppppp1p/5np1/8/2PP4/5N2/PP2PPPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 1 3
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-20 17:39
3...Bg7
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-20 20:12
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 *

rnbqk2r/ppppppbp/5np1/8/2PP4/5NP1/PP2PP1P/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 4
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-20 20:52
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.g3 d5

rnbqk2r/ppp1ppbp/5np1/3p4/2PP4/5NP1/PP2PP1P/RNBQKB1R w KQkq d6 0 5
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-21 00:42
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 d5 5. cxd5 *

rnbqk2r/ppp1ppbp/5np1/3P4/3P4/5NP1/PP2PP1P/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 5
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-21 20:34
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.g3 d5 5.cxd5 Nxe5

rnbqk2r/ppp1ppbp/6p1/3n4/3P4/5NP1/PP2PP1P/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 6
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-21 21:08
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. Bg2 *

rnbqk2r/ppp1ppbp/6p1/3n4/3P4/5NP1/PP2PPBP/RNBQK2R b KQkq - 1 6
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-22 20:31
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.g3 d5 5.cxd5 Nxe5 6.Bg2 0-0

rnbq1rk1/ppp1ppbp/6p1/3n4/3P4/5NP1/PP2PPBP/RNBQK2R w KQ - 0 7
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-23 01:11
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. Bg2 O-O 7. O-O *

rnbq1rk1/ppp1ppbp/6p1/3n4/3P4/5NP1/PP2PPBP/RNBQ1RK1 b - - 3 7
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-23 22:04
when you post the moves you are leaving a gap after say 5. cxd5 instead of 5.cxd5,i used to make similar mistakes until i found out people could not copy my games.
Only a little thing and meant to be helpful.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2012-08-24 02:29

> Nxe5


That's a good trick!
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-24 10:58
Typo.
- - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-23 22:07 Edited 2012-08-24 10:59
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.g3 d5 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.Bg2 0-0 7.0-0 Nc6

r1bq1rk1/ppp1ppbp/2n3p1/3n4/3P4/5NP1/PP2PPBP/RNBQ1RK1 w - - 0 8
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-25 21:41
Any reason for your delay in replying.:wink:
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-25 23:45 Edited 2012-08-26 17:27
Hello Paul, i only hand-select a few chess games i like into my database and must admit that you already forced me out of book&analysis - will have time tomorrow to see what your intention behind Nc6 is. :wink:

Have fun and till tomorrow. :smile:

Re-Edit (correcting typos): Thank you for your hint, i appreciate every help. I simply copy the Chessbase Light-output here into the thread... and i can assure you that these so called white-spaces can be processed by every better chess gui, most likely the case of error is often a simple typo like Nxe5 or something like that :grin:.

The official PGN-standard seems to use also these white-spaces in its examples, see here for more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Game_Notation
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2012-08-25 23:49

> The official PGN-standard seems to use also these white-spaces in its examples, see here for more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Game_Notation


This means it's not a mistake :wink:, I also add the white space to all my moves.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-26 00:00
just shows how ignorent i am then.:smile:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2012-08-26 00:14
Oh, I blame the Fritz GUI for the confusion, and creating its own "standard". It also uses "0-0" instead of PGN Standard O-O for castling. It seems they just coded their Notation another way to be different, for the sake of it.
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-26 17:28

> Oh, I blame the Fritz GUI for the confusion


I blame Paul for the confusion... :razz:
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-26 17:31
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. Bg2 O-O 7. O-O Nc6 8. e3 *

r1bq1rk1/ppp1ppbp/2n3p1/3n4/3P4/4PNP1/PP3PBP/RNBQ1RK1 b - - 0 8
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-26 21:20
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.g3 d5 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.Bg2 0-0 7.0-0 Nc6 8.e3 Nb6

]
r1bq1rk1/ppp1ppbp/1nn3p1/8/3P4/4PNP1/PP3PBP/RNBQ1RK1 w - - 0 9
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-26 21:51
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. Bg2 O-O 7. O-O Nc6 8. e3 Nb6 9. Nc3 *

r1bq1rk1/ppp1ppbp/1nn3p1/8/3P4/2N1PNP1/PP3PBP/R1BQ1RK1 b - - 2 9
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-26 22:55
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.g3 d5 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.Bg2 0-0 7.0-0 Nc6 8.e3 Nb6 9.Nc3 Re8

r1bqr1k1/ppp1ppbp/1nn3p1/8/3P4/2N1PNP1/PP3PBP/R1BQ1RK1 w - - 0 10
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-26 23:42
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. Bg2 O-O 7. O-O Nc6 8. e3 Nb6 9. Nc3 Re8 10. a3 *

r1bqr1k1/ppp1ppbp/1nn3p1/8/3P4/P1N1PNP1/1P3PBP/R1BQ1RK1 b - - 0 10
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-27 00:02
All just book of course,although we had many choices on earlier moves.I was slightly suprised by 8.e3 seems like you dont wish to play an attacking game.

Nothing wrong with that of course as i know nothing of your style of play,i could have been more ambitious in my moves but could not find anything.
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-27 00:27

> I was slightly suprised by 8.e3 seems like you dont wish to play an attacking game.


Well, let me describe 8. e3 with your own words:
"I made a move at least i can comprehend and you have different choices in reply."
(http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?pid=433292#pid433292)

As you have big hardware, i of course must be careful overpushing positions seeking those i think i have under positional control... everything else is suicide... :smile:
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-27 00:32
Hoisted by my own petard.:smile:
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-28 23:56

> Hoisted by my own petard.:smile:


"Any reason for your delay in replying.:wink:"

(http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?pid=434843#pid434843)

:smile:
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-29 00:00
sorry i did not realise it was my turn to move,will reply in a few hours.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-29 23:58
10...Rb8
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-30 00:42
So for our current position -with white/me to move- see below.
Hope Nelson Hernandez will see this thread, wonder whether he has this position in his database... :smile:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. Bg2 O-O 7. O-O Nc6 8. e3 Nb6 9. Nc3 Re8 10. a3 Rb8 *

1rbqr1k1/ppp1ppbp/1nn3p1/8/3P4/P1N1PNP1/1P3PBP/R1BQ1RK1 w - - 1 11
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2012-08-30 03:36
26 games.  White 61.5% with 30.8% draws.  First seen in Pro Deo 1.6-The King 3.50, 0-1, CEGT Blitz 40/4, 2007.11.20.  This is predominantly a CCRL/CEGT position.
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-30 22:16
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. Bg2 O-O 7. O-O Nc6 8. e3 Nb6 9. Nc3 Re8 10. a3 Rb8 11. Re1 *

1rbqr1k1/ppp1ppbp/1nn3p1/8/3P4/P1N1PNP1/1P3PBP/R1BQR1K1 b - - 2 11
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-30 23:02
I can spend a bit more time now on this game now my game with Jose is over.

Lets see if i can alter Nelsons stats.:smile:
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-30 23:17

> Lets see if i can alter Nelsons stats.:smile:


Well, that are blitz-games... our (corr-)position is sadly more drawn than a king vs. king-endgame could be. :wink:
Wanted to try 10. a3 because i don't think there is anything in the other branches, but your reply 10...Rb8 is excellent (hoped you would blunder e5 or Bg4 or whatever else besides Rb8, but big hardware is big hardware :yell:)... and of course i wanted to shake you out of your (LK-)book but i didn't succeed, therefore seems the answer against the Gruenfeld must be elsewhere, maybe in the Russian game. :wink:
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-30 23:31
There is a question i would like to ask Nelson and i have no doubt he has thought about this himself.

Could he in any way weight games according to time control played at.

I have no doubt this would improve opening AN,however even an idiot like myself realises difficulty of this.

I dont believe this has been mentioned before,no doubt Nelson will prove me wrong.:smile:
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2012-08-31 01:20
You are muddling two different ideas.  One idea is to compile empirical results.  Another idea is to rank or put a value on moves based on empirical data.  The brief answer to your question is that it would render almost all of historical results totally worthless, because hardware and software have improved so much and their respective rates of change cannot really be controlled.  You can't say "Shredder 7.04 at 60 minute time controls is equal to Houdini 2.0c Pro at bullet".  You can't even begin to say that because the performance disparities are so large.

On the other hand, relative ELO ratings are a valuable way of adjusting empirical results.  For example, years ago we had the 1.h3 fad.  Proponents of that move generally had much stronger hardware than their opponents, and they played it so often that they developed superior opening books in that line.  As a result white scored a surprisingly high success rate, suggesting this was the best opening move.  But obviously it was not the best opening move.  For this to be reflected in the move ranking you had to adjust empirical result for relative ELO.
Parent - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-31 08:54
Excellent post.

I still like the empirical and historical feedback we can get about positions such as 10...Rb8 (if i combined it right Harry Schnapp covered it in one of his great opening books - may you rest in peace Harry! - which lead to its appearances in CCRL/CEGT-testing), nice to know one was there previously and how tables can turn with new technology&thinkings... most likely 11. Re1 was a good scorer in the past, but as we will see soon it is not good enough. :wink:
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-31 00:03
I am only partially through my AN on my reply move,hopefully it will suprise both you and Nelson.

Dont hold the horses though,i could be wrong.
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-31 08:55 Edited 2012-08-31 09:05

> hopefully it will suprise both you and Nelson.


Doubt it. :wink:

Edit: Will pm Nelson now the move you will play. :smile:
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-08-31 09:25
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. Bg2 O-O 7. O-O Nc6 8. e3 Nb6 9. Nc3 Re8 10. a3 Rb8 11,Re1 e5

1rbqr1k1/ppp2pbp/1nn3p1/4p3/3P4/P1N1PNP1/1P3PBP/R1BQR1K1 w - e6 0 12
Parent - - By Antares (****) [de] Date 2012-08-31 09:45
Yes, 11...e5 is the move i pm'ed a half hour ago to Nelson :smile:, so 10...Rb8 is indeed a great corr/human-novelty by you... hope you allow me asking: did you find it alone, or were BigBen/LK/Turbo/? a helping hand? :grin:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. Bg2 O-O 7. O-O Nc6 8. e3 Nb6 9. Nc3 Re8 10. a3 Rb8 11. Re1 e5 12. d5 * & offering to draw.


1rbqr1k1/ppp2pbp/1nn3p1/3Pp3/8/P1N1PNP1/1P3PBP/R1BQR1K1 b - - 0 12
Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / Antares-NATIONAL12
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