Rybka Chess Community Forum
Can anyone tell me how to enter opening positions into Aquarium such as to store them and enable determination of when the same position is being entered? These are positions I have constructed while using an engine in Aquarium. Need the elementary starting point info here; seek tutorials, etc.
Pirc, I see no one has answered your post. Nick Carlin had posted a link to a pdf he wrote on making opening books for ctg, aquarium and maybe some other. If you do a search on Nick maybe you can find it. I think the name of it was "BookMaking.pdf" or something close! Also have you looked on ChessCafe the ChessOK archives? There is some info there by Dadi also.
Nice to hear from you again. It's funny that this question, which has simple answers goes unresponded to, but recent further research told me that opening books can be so delicate that nobody wants to break from theirs to hear about yours. I just tried google search for Nick Carlin and came up empty. In the last two years contacted dozens of programmers without one responding. Such people are out of my league, but someday hope communication can be had because I'll always have further questions. I looked in cafe archives for info on this and didn't find it. If have specific references will run them down. Previous issues solved, again, thanks for all of your help.
I've begun entering positions into book and see a need to clear notation window periodically. Can anyone please tell me how this is done? On my computer I see in the notation screen an option for 'rollup.' (I didn't attempt anything for lack of experience.)
Click on "comments" on the top bar and read the icons and down arrows.
Rollup acts like a window shade and will minimize the window only.
Still looking for how to clear the notation window only. Previously found that in 'Comments' clicking something like 'remove all moves after' cleared the notations but while clearing the book itself as well. Tried a number of others in 'comments' without success.
Just click on new game. It shouldn't clear the book tree though. Did you follow the instructions in Nick's pdf on how to make Aquarium books?
Unfortunately still looking to clear only the notation window. I followed Nick's instructions slowly and carefully and have use of the book.
On my computer under Sandbox says 'clear game.' Both it and in 'Home-View' the 'clear game' clears notation window and book. I don't see a "New Game" option anywhere. Reason this so important to me is the large number of same positions will be working with as I enter my opening positions. From initial experience, when the same as another position is entered the "R" fills up next to where you back up the moves. Additionally I thought I was seeing the other position's move order in the notation window. It seems that difficulty can arise when notation window flooded with moves and an "R" position occurs, making it time consuming to try to find the other position's move order.
Ok, in Sandbox at the very top you will see some small icons. This is the QAT line. On the right of this line is a small down arrow. Click it, and a small window will pop up. It says QAT settings at the top and under that is a mode window. click the small down arrow by the mode window and select "game" then check the boxs next to the lines that you want to display an icon on the qat line. Works the same in every mode.
This is what you should see if you click clear game or the small little page icon. The tree should still be displayed as per the picture.
Something else just occurred to me if you are trying the enter moves into your tree from the notation window you will need to right click in the tree window and click on "add moves to main tree>always" or they won't show the next game because they aren't saved in the tree main .hsh file unless you have that checked. I think the default is none, but I may be wrong!
I clicked add to main tree--always, entered some moves into the book, clicked 'clear game' and the "working area" cleared while the book content remained in tact for the first time. However point of emphasis is on the risk of going much further with this lacking full view of the situation in terms of trees. Something I was going to ask about anyway is Fig. 38, p. 35 of bookmaker "It will be important to take back-ups of these on a regular basis." I have no CTG book and was never able to get a fundamental understanding of computer files, as they relate to other pertinent things, much like my attempt many years ago to understand automobile engines. So I can only operate on a situation to situation basis. My question is would there be a way to look at your so called Main Tree from another vantage point to verify that 'always' doesn't just mean temporarily or until a certain stressful experience wipes out the book? I would also certainly like to check what we just discovered out with someone experienced. Do you have any ideas? This is a project I'm in a hurry to resume but boy does it call for some expertise. It's certainly been interesting, I have more questions, let me know if anything surfaces.
Well you are really trying to do this the hard way and without knowing exactly how you have Aquarium setup on your computer it's hard to give you difinitive answers.
The way I would do it would be to create a database. Then for each variation create a game and save it to the database. Then use the games in the database to build a tree. That way you could always edit the moves in a game and rebuild or change the tree.
Are steps involving creation of a database shown in any chess cafe archive articles? I have firmly in view a 'Create new database' window but can't be sure about the saving process, etc. Can we go over this?
> Are steps involving creation of a database shown in any chess cafe archive articles? I have firmly in view a 'Create new database' window but can't be sure about the saving process, etc. Can we go over this?
Look here for Dadi's past articles, most of your questions have an answer in here
To open a new database. In database mode, click database on top line>then new then give it a filename and add .cdp to the filename: because the cdp databases are easier to work in Aquarium; click "save" "ok" then create a new game. Add your moves and save it to your new database, pretty easy maybe except for adding the .cdp to the filename. When you want to look at one of the games click the game to open it then you can edit it or add to it and resave it to the database.
New database created, and after clicking 'Create and Edit New Game [X]' a layout identical to what had been working with in Sandbox shows. So I can see that the board present is where would add first opening position moves. However in saving these to new database would only guess to try under 'Actions' -- 'Add New Game.' Please confirm saving action, (looked carefully at a number of cafe articles...)
In the qat at top you should have a little icon like a 3.5 inch disc. Just click on it. Or click on the game in left panel and a popup window will ask if you want to save. Read help files on saving games.
After executing each opening position in the work just completed I clicked a Qat icon called 'save current game.' After the first click of it a blue highlighted bar in left side saying 'new game' then said 'Game #1.' After each of the remaining clicks all that happened was the icon sort of expanding, showing it was activated. Am I right in saying that all positions are now in 2 areas, the main tree/book, and the Database. I want to know this so that other considerations can be developed properly.
Main question arising is prior to clearing the working area(notation screen) is it possible to verify the main tree's being in tact? You recall previously that when clearing the notation screen in a variety of ways, the book itself was erased. (Method of clearing working area/notation screen today while in Database mode was to go to 'home-view' and select Game Ribbon's 'New.')
When it says new game on the left, you must save that game to a database. Please read the help on saving games.
Ok, I see Nick replied to you with a link to his book. It's a great starting point, I used it but had lost the pdf when changing computers. If I get some time later today I'll try to look on ChessCafe and find you some other material. I know it's there somewhere.
When an "R" beneath the board fills up indicating repeat position, how can I view the move order for the position(s)?
Just click on the R. It will take you to each position. You need to click until it returns you to the original position or manually move back to original position.
If you want to see the path to the current position, click in the notation and then press "L". The moves leading to the position will be highlighted with a yellow background.
Hey, thanks Dadi I didn't know you could do that. It's great!!!
It's going well but I'd like to refer to something you earlier said about building a tree out of the games. My concern is that often when a position is being loaded the move 'my side' is about to have entered is shown below the board highlighted, but without an "R." Recent inquiry into the reason for this inclines me to ask you if somehow the 19 games currently in database can be linked? The term may be build a tree but I still can't speak Aquarium's language very well. To clarify, I am loading positions for black into the book, which means 1) c4 is ...f5, 1)d4 & e4 are ...d6. Often when black is about to have a move entered the same move shown under board. So another way to put it is what to do when the move about to be loaded is shown below yet without apparent ability to find the implied same position. Current opinion is that it's because the position lies in a different game. Thanks
Not really sure what you are asking here. Can you post a screen shot? Press PrtScn key and paste in Paint, save as jpg then attach to your post.
When for the first time am loading a variation into book and an "R" appears below the board it indicates the same position was loaded thru a different move sequence. However at times, just prior to the last move of the variation being placed in the book a highlighted move is shown beneath the board, to the left. It may be the same move as I'm about to load, or a different one. But let's say that it is the same move, and "R" not showing. The issue becomes finding the position with that move as the last one, and identifying in my manual pen and paper file the two same positions, so that one of the variations can be placed at its end, i.e. no more moves expanded onto it.
This post made on my desktop computer, while work being done in Aquarium book is on laptop in other room. With my abilities, unable to provide screen shot. Please note appreciation for yours and Dadi's responses, and if the issue still unclear, ok.
Another point on if the above still unclear, would it be possible to expand upon your previously saying in reference to the book's games--"...to build a tree from them."
>However at times, just prior to the last move of the variation being placed in the book a highlighted move is shown beneath the board, to the left. It may be the same move as I'm about to load, or a different one.
Click on the attached jpg and let me know if this is what you are talking about.
> Another point on if the above still unclear, would it be possible to expand upon your previously saying in reference to the book's games--"...to build a tree from them."
You can build a tree from games stored in a database. Tree such as "narrowbook" which comes with aquarium. See the manuel from Nick on book building on how to do it in Aquarium. It's the second half of the manuel.
> This post made on my desktop computer, while work being done in Aquarium book is on laptop in other room. With my abilities, unable to provide screen shot. Please note appreciation for yours and Dadi's responses, and if the issue still unclear, ok.
Why not install Aquarium on both computers? It's perfectly legal for you as a registered user.
Before attempting to create 'bigbook' have question about space. I have 19 games in my database and would like to know how many move variations a given game will house? How does one tell if a game is about to be space exhausted? In that thousands more positions are yet to be added, is there any space requirements to anticipate in terms of my laptop itself? (It is a regular newly bought computer on par with standard units.)
Thrust here is to understand generally but also to address issue of where it seems that my discussed problem can be simplified by staying within a limited number of games while loading the positions. The concept of bigbook is appealing but it is explained to someone who is importing games while enacting other functions. Mine is the most basic form of a manually added position book.
P.S. Is there a solution for a book move having been cancelled and then re-entered, as in my book the asterisk still shows?
> I have 19 games in my database
I have dB's with over 500,000 games that I have built into "trees"; read that as opening books; and have no problems with storage. RTFM and KISS are the main requirements. sorry but I'm out of patience.
Is there solution to when a move cancelled and then re-entered because it continues to show an asterisk?
It will show an asterisk until you uncheck the discarded move box.
In archive article Aquarium, Part 2 under heading Infinite Analysis a screenshot is shown of an ideal way for output to occur in response to a given position's best engine moves. Shown are moves for Critter, Hiarcs, Junior, Shredder, and Stockfish.
When clicking the option in Infinite Analysis(Sandbox) for multiple engines as opposed to an individual engine I find that only one or two engines' moves come up despite four having been checked.
All the best,
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