I want to analyze following opening lines in Tarrasch GUI, I just played as a white and lost by silly mistake with a human opponent. But, I want to figure out whom does it favors, white or black? If Rybka 2.3.2a is strong enough, I would be happy to play gainst same line as white, but how?
1. d4 c5 2. c3 e6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. e4 cxd4 5. cxd4 d5 6. e5 Nge7 7. Bb5 Ng6 8. Be3 Be7 9. Nbd2 Bd7 10. Be2 O-O 11. O-O {Opening Development Complete}
what strong engine says here?
In my last post Ed Collins confirmed with Houdini that Game-1 favours white, which was true that I realized.
1) Does above opening line favors any side, white or black?
In middle game, between two strong engines match,
2) Are the moves forced moves or normally leads to draw due to far sight of computer calculations?
3) How many moves in advance a strong engine can look into?
Thanks!
1. d4 c5 2. c3 e6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. e4 cxd4 5. cxd4 d5 6. e5 Nge7 7. Bb5 Ng6 8. Be3 Be7 9. Nbd2 Bd7 10. Be2 O-O 11. O-O {Opening Development Complete}
what strong engine says here?
In my last post Ed Collins confirmed with Houdini that Game-1 favours white, which was true that I realized.
1) Does above opening line favors any side, white or black?
In middle game, between two strong engines match,
2) Are the moves forced moves or normally leads to draw due to far sight of computer calculations?
3) How many moves in advance a strong engine can look into?
Thanks!
![[us]](/mwf/v12/flags/us.png "United States")
Hi Dragon Knight,
did you download the Tarrasch GUI? It took me a few seconds to dowload it myself and another minute to enter your opening line.
Your first question: on the top, click on the icon "commands", then click on "start kibitzer", what that does is turn on the engine and have the engine make comments (kibitz). When you do this, you get some lines (about 4 or 5 ) in the lowest box. The first line starts with the number -0.02, the "-" (minus sign) always means that black is ahead (and + sign, or simply no sign, means that white is ahead in the computer's opinion), however 0.02 advantage for black is so small that the engine believes the position is EQUAL. So the answer to your first question is that the opening line dose not favor either side/position is equal.
Now let's say black's next move is the blunder bishop to a3, now look how the numbers at the bottom changed. Now the computer shows 2.29 (without a minus sign). It means if white makes the move bxa3, then computer thinks that white is ahead by 2.3 so the position is no longer equal and in fact favors white heavily. By the way 2.3 means about 2.3 pawns, so it basically means the computer thinks white is ahead as if it had taken 2.3 pawns without any compensation for black. On the second line, it shows the variation Bd3 for white which is of course not as good and leads to an evaluation of about 0.20 which basically means an equal game.
So now you are ready to enter one of your own games into Tarrasch. Turn on the kibitzer, and look at the evaluation number at the bottom as you replay the game move by move, as long as it remains around zero, it means the game was about equal. If all of a sudden it moves to let's say 1.4, then it means someone made a blunder (I would say any move that wound change the evaluation by more than 0.5 to 1 unit is a blunder). That way you can see where you went wrong. Go back one move and then the engine would tell you what the best move in that position would have been and you can follow the variation and see where it leads to if you like.
So now you are ready to analyze your own games with a chess engine. That's what I was trying to help you with. Your second and third questions deal with engine vs engine matches which is not something that I am interested in or know anything about.
Later on, try out the demo shredder classic for a month, it makes the analysis even easier and FASTER.
did you download the Tarrasch GUI? It took me a few seconds to dowload it myself and another minute to enter your opening line.
Your first question: on the top, click on the icon "commands", then click on "start kibitzer", what that does is turn on the engine and have the engine make comments (kibitz). When you do this, you get some lines (about 4 or 5 ) in the lowest box. The first line starts with the number -0.02, the "-" (minus sign) always means that black is ahead (and + sign, or simply no sign, means that white is ahead in the computer's opinion), however 0.02 advantage for black is so small that the engine believes the position is EQUAL. So the answer to your first question is that the opening line dose not favor either side/position is equal.
Now let's say black's next move is the blunder bishop to a3, now look how the numbers at the bottom changed. Now the computer shows 2.29 (without a minus sign). It means if white makes the move bxa3, then computer thinks that white is ahead by 2.3 so the position is no longer equal and in fact favors white heavily. By the way 2.3 means about 2.3 pawns, so it basically means the computer thinks white is ahead as if it had taken 2.3 pawns without any compensation for black. On the second line, it shows the variation Bd3 for white which is of course not as good and leads to an evaluation of about 0.20 which basically means an equal game.
So now you are ready to enter one of your own games into Tarrasch. Turn on the kibitzer, and look at the evaluation number at the bottom as you replay the game move by move, as long as it remains around zero, it means the game was about equal. If all of a sudden it moves to let's say 1.4, then it means someone made a blunder (I would say any move that wound change the evaluation by more than 0.5 to 1 unit is a blunder). That way you can see where you went wrong. Go back one move and then the engine would tell you what the best move in that position would have been and you can follow the variation and see where it leads to if you like.
So now you are ready to analyze your own games with a chess engine. That's what I was trying to help you with. Your second and third questions deal with engine vs engine matches which is not something that I am interested in or know anything about.
Later on, try out the demo shredder classic for a month, it makes the analysis even easier and FASTER.
Homayoun_Sohrabi_M.D
I downloaded Tarrasch GUI (no install) with rybka and komodo, played as a white very good exercise, but frankly could not finish, myself took so long to think - lost by time and finally disturbed by a visitor so all my memory and calculations washed up. i found Tarrasch easy. I will get used to it more i use. Tarrasch GUI is with engine like komodo and rybka, it serves my purpose and it's more than enough for me to digest. Most of the time I just wanna cross-check my games which I already played with human opponent for blunders or weak moves.
[quote]
The first line starts with the number -0.02, the "-" (minus sign) always means that black is ahead (and + sign, or simply no sign, means that white is ahead in the computer's opinion), however 0.02 advantage for black is so small that the engine believes the position is EQUAL.
[/quote]
Even +1.0 or -1.0 (a loss equal to a pawn) I can compansate within next 3-to-4 moves with a human player.
Regarding my opening line
1. d4 c5 2. c3 e6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. e4 cxd4 5. cxd4 d5 6. e5 Nge7 7. Bb5 Ng6 8. Be3 Be7 9. Nbd2 Bd7 10. Be2 O-O 11. O-O {Opening Development Complete}
I do not know what the strong engine's out come, but, I had strong feelings that it favors white who has better hold of center squares (e5 and d4).
Anyway....I will try it myself with rybka and komodo later on. I lost it only because one stupid sacrifice in late game proved harming.
Thanking you for your very informative help.
Hope I will start rolling good with Tarrasch soon!
I downloaded Tarrasch GUI (no install) with rybka and komodo, played as a white very good exercise, but frankly could not finish, myself took so long to think - lost by time and finally disturbed by a visitor so all my memory and calculations washed up. i found Tarrasch easy. I will get used to it more i use. Tarrasch GUI is with engine like komodo and rybka, it serves my purpose and it's more than enough for me to digest. Most of the time I just wanna cross-check my games which I already played with human opponent for blunders or weak moves.
[quote]
The first line starts with the number -0.02, the "-" (minus sign) always means that black is ahead (and + sign, or simply no sign, means that white is ahead in the computer's opinion), however 0.02 advantage for black is so small that the engine believes the position is EQUAL.
[/quote]
Even +1.0 or -1.0 (a loss equal to a pawn) I can compansate within next 3-to-4 moves with a human player.
Regarding my opening line
1. d4 c5 2. c3 e6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. e4 cxd4 5. cxd4 d5 6. e5 Nge7 7. Bb5 Ng6 8. Be3 Be7 9. Nbd2 Bd7 10. Be2 O-O 11. O-O {Opening Development Complete}
I do not know what the strong engine's out come, but, I had strong feelings that it favors white who has better hold of center squares (e5 and d4).
Anyway....I will try it myself with rybka and komodo later on. I lost it only because one stupid sacrifice in late game proved harming.
Thanking you for your very informative help.
Hope I will start rolling good with Tarrasch soon!
![[nz]](/mwf/v12/flags/nz.png "New Zealand")
Hello, I am the author of the Tarrasch GUI and I'd like to make just a couple of extra points;
- You can turn the kibitzer on or off without the menu - use the "robot" button in the toolbar (my intention was that a robot is a machine with a brain - just like a chess engine).
- If you are losing a game on time just click on your time and adjust it! The computer doesn't actually care that you cheat this way! It's a dumb slave that should obey your wishes!
- Similarly, if you are too late and you do actually lose on time, you can still recover and continue the game by using the blue "undo" button on the toolbar - that will take you back as far as you like in the game. Don't forget to then add some time to your side (click on the clock then adjust the time left).
Edit: I just noticed you have another question outstanding and I must admit other people answering are correct - If you want to run engine vs engine matches Tarrasch is not the tool for you. Arena (or Winboard) are other free options available. Tarrasch is fine for playing human v engine games or analyzing games or game fragments from any source.
- You can turn the kibitzer on or off without the menu - use the "robot" button in the toolbar (my intention was that a robot is a machine with a brain - just like a chess engine).
- If you are losing a game on time just click on your time and adjust it! The computer doesn't actually care that you cheat this way! It's a dumb slave that should obey your wishes!
- Similarly, if you are too late and you do actually lose on time, you can still recover and continue the game by using the blue "undo" button on the toolbar - that will take you back as far as you like in the game. Don't forget to then add some time to your side (click on the clock then adjust the time left).
Edit: I just noticed you have another question outstanding and I must admit other people answering are correct - If you want to run engine vs engine matches Tarrasch is not the tool for you. Arena (or Winboard) are other free options available. Tarrasch is fine for playing human v engine games or analyzing games or game fragments from any source.
> If Rybka 2.3.2a is strong enough, I would be happy to play gainst same line as white, but how?
I forgot you had one more question. Is Rybka 2.3 strong enough to analyze your games? YES!
Is it strong enough for you to play against? YES! It is extremely strong!
Just use the "commands" button to play a game against the Rybka. Use the "play white" or "play black" commands and the program will automatically set you up to play against Rybka, you enter your move and the computer will respond.
[quote]
Is Rybka 2.3 strong enough to analyze your games? YES!
[/quote]
it is....move which seems like unpredictable at first glance....turns into powerful blow later one. I need more time to figure-out rybka's ultimate plan.
Thanks!
Is Rybka 2.3 strong enough to analyze your games? YES!
[/quote]
it is....move which seems like unpredictable at first glance....turns into powerful blow later one. I need more time to figure-out rybka's ultimate plan.
Thanks!
![[nl]](/mwf/v12/flags/nl.png "Netherlands")
I Currently play ( lots of ) Shuffle Chess with this Tarrasch Chess GUI.
I find that it has Certain Elements were I am Comfortable with:
- Major Advantage: Easy to use. And this is seriously, Arena is so Terribly unfriendly to use. Even Worse, I am a Black player because I like to Defend and get a Hard-to-Crack Defense, also I am a Positional and Strategicall Player, a Planner.
It took me like +3 Hours to find out how I can play with Black with the Arena GUI.
I have on Certain times I have a - what I call - Tactical Blindspot.
One time I had to already Resign my game in my first move against a Human online Opponent ( Chess 960 ). I prefer to play Shuffle Chess instead of Chess 960 because in Classic Chess, Castling nearly never belonged to my Stratagy and I saw so many other moves that I wanted to do ( also, I care about Tempo, and the Rook is wrong placed with Castling and thus has to be moved again ). Against the Chess Engine Rybka ( also Chess Titans Program ) this caused my Knight to get Pinned usually... And a Knight being pinned is usually a Sign of a lost game (...)
Now I have learned to Castle on time against a Human Opponent and else.
- Major Advantage: The Engine doesn't thinks too long. Now this sounds a bit Tricky, because I am a long-Thinker myself and I am a Patient Person. What I mean with this is for example Crafty which I have played with; It thinks pretty long like 8 minutes+ sometimes or I don't know exactly how much.
I am not a GrandMaster and thus Rybka 2.3.2a mp 32-bit is Sufficient for my Chess Capicity; more over, I have not even won a Game of her, nor played Remise with her ( but did won of Chess Titans Niveau 10 one Time, and one Theoreticall Draw :) ).
That thinking that you can see sidewayways of the Top Engines makes ( Engines man! ) makes me unsure and causes my Morale to Harm. Also if you Download the free Fritz Pack - how fast the Engine Pushes it's Pieces forward in Default Stance! So Confident!
Disadvantages:
- Major Disadvantage: Not being able to set Coordinates around the Board.
This caused me seriously to doubt about the Tarrasch Chess GUI and I actually wanted to look for another GUI; I like Coordinates around the board, and that's not only about the Functionality....
As for Functionality, I am not good with Coordinates, I don't use Bishop goes ... Pawn moves ... and then Queen moves ...
.
Since I got a book { but with Complications } I started to learn the Coordinates out of my head... but am still not one with them, as the Author of the Chess wants us to be:
Why doesn't Tarrasch show board co-ordinates ?
I must admit this is a reflection of my own prejudice. I think it is very rare for good players to need any help with the algebraic co-ordinates. They know the board intimately, every square is a friend. Tarrasch is designed for good players and people who want to become good players. If you want to be a good player it is essential to develop this intimate relationship with the squares and going without artificial aids will help that. Having said all that, many people ask me for this feature, so I will endeavour to add it, as an option, the next time I revamp Tarrasch's display code. And revamping Tarrasch's display code, to allow for example resizable graphics is a high priority.
Well, I am a good Player, but just not a Tacticall one ( However I don't play with time but Correspondance! )
So I am a rare case, such as usually
It has so it's advantages though on Certain Times, being rare.
The problem is, is that I am not always so good at Abstract things ( Mathematics for Example ), and that's also why I am a Great Strategist, poor Tactician. Ask for Questions if you want to ( further ) Know what I mean, because I do think Logically and Rationaly.
I think that the Author had best to think in this way:
'' ...... But I have to make a Concession with myself ...... ''
Though, the last but not least, I cannot either always make Concessions with myself....
- Minor minor Disadvantage: No Customizable Board Colours and Chess Piece Colours.
Self-Explanatory.
Look one of my Previous Topics to know what I exactly mean with this.
However though, on the other Side, I like to be '' Strong '' in this Context, and not fall into the Cliche. Therefore Minor minor.
- Minor minor Disadvantage: Not being able to increase the Size of the ChessBoard, and thus Pieces.
Now I was not used to have a ChessBoard to my Top-Left in that Size, but I am now.
And I knew how to make it Bigger. For the first one - Minor minor.
Bye all.
I find that it has Certain Elements were I am Comfortable with:
- Major Advantage: Easy to use. And this is seriously, Arena is so Terribly unfriendly to use. Even Worse, I am a Black player because I like to Defend and get a Hard-to-Crack Defense, also I am a Positional and Strategicall Player, a Planner.
It took me like +3 Hours to find out how I can play with Black with the Arena GUI.
I have on Certain times I have a - what I call - Tactical Blindspot.
One time I had to already Resign my game in my first move against a Human online Opponent ( Chess 960 ). I prefer to play Shuffle Chess instead of Chess 960 because in Classic Chess, Castling nearly never belonged to my Stratagy and I saw so many other moves that I wanted to do ( also, I care about Tempo, and the Rook is wrong placed with Castling and thus has to be moved again ). Against the Chess Engine Rybka ( also Chess Titans Program ) this caused my Knight to get Pinned usually... And a Knight being pinned is usually a Sign of a lost game (...)
Now I have learned to Castle on time against a Human Opponent and else.
- Major Advantage: The Engine doesn't thinks too long. Now this sounds a bit Tricky, because I am a long-Thinker myself and I am a Patient Person. What I mean with this is for example Crafty which I have played with; It thinks pretty long like 8 minutes+ sometimes or I don't know exactly how much.
I am not a GrandMaster and thus Rybka 2.3.2a mp 32-bit is Sufficient for my Chess Capicity; more over, I have not even won a Game of her, nor played Remise with her ( but did won of Chess Titans Niveau 10 one Time, and one Theoreticall Draw :) ).
That thinking that you can see sidewayways of the Top Engines makes ( Engines man! ) makes me unsure and causes my Morale to Harm. Also if you Download the free Fritz Pack - how fast the Engine Pushes it's Pieces forward in Default Stance! So Confident!
Disadvantages:
- Major Disadvantage: Not being able to set Coordinates around the Board.
This caused me seriously to doubt about the Tarrasch Chess GUI and I actually wanted to look for another GUI; I like Coordinates around the board, and that's not only about the Functionality....
As for Functionality, I am not good with Coordinates, I don't use Bishop goes ... Pawn moves ... and then Queen moves ...
.
Since I got a book { but with Complications } I started to learn the Coordinates out of my head... but am still not one with them, as the Author of the Chess wants us to be:
Why doesn't Tarrasch show board co-ordinates ?
I must admit this is a reflection of my own prejudice. I think it is very rare for good players to need any help with the algebraic co-ordinates. They know the board intimately, every square is a friend. Tarrasch is designed for good players and people who want to become good players. If you want to be a good player it is essential to develop this intimate relationship with the squares and going without artificial aids will help that. Having said all that, many people ask me for this feature, so I will endeavour to add it, as an option, the next time I revamp Tarrasch's display code. And revamping Tarrasch's display code, to allow for example resizable graphics is a high priority.
Well, I am a good Player, but just not a Tacticall one ( However I don't play with time but Correspondance! )
So I am a rare case, such as usually
It has so it's advantages though on Certain Times, being rare.
The problem is, is that I am not always so good at Abstract things ( Mathematics for Example ), and that's also why I am a Great Strategist, poor Tactician. Ask for Questions if you want to ( further ) Know what I mean, because I do think Logically and Rationaly.
I think that the Author had best to think in this way:
'' ...... But I have to make a Concession with myself ...... ''
Though, the last but not least, I cannot either always make Concessions with myself....
- Minor minor Disadvantage: No Customizable Board Colours and Chess Piece Colours.
Self-Explanatory.
Look one of my Previous Topics to know what I exactly mean with this.
However though, on the other Side, I like to be '' Strong '' in this Context, and not fall into the Cliche. Therefore Minor minor.
- Minor minor Disadvantage: Not being able to increase the Size of the ChessBoard, and thus Pieces.
Now I was not used to have a ChessBoard to my Top-Left in that Size, but I am now.
And I knew how to make it Bigger. For the first one - Minor minor.
Bye all.
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