Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Fruit semantic equivalence of two code sections
![[mx]](/mwf/v12/flags/mx.png "Mexico")
Harvey, it's not "banned for life" at all. Not banned even one bit, and if it reaches the top again, I assume it will do well commercially. There is no ban whatsoever. Looks like Vas is concentrating on his work again and leaving the rest of us discussing this imaginary ban stuff...
Amazing! If there is no ban then why are there 10s of thousands of posts about it on this forum? The ban is there and will stay there. It may get lifted, in the future, if Vas himself appeals. Vas may decide not to. That is up to him but the ban from all but CSVN tournaments is very real.
Vas won't appeal and it won't get lifted. But it is only a matter of time until someone decides to hold a computer chess tournament with the top tier engines.
That may be possible. I think the thing that most do not consider is that to hold a tournament like the WCCC takes a lot of effort and money. I think i once heard a figure of 40,000 euros. Of course if it becomes a web event it can be done cheaper. But there is something nice about the face to face events. Even in CCT which is a programmers event you often find the programmers vanish for a round or 3 and are not on chat. This can not happen on a face to face event.
If they are spending 40K euros on WCCC, somebody must be stealing most of the money. I think 40K euros is in the right ballpark for this type of event, but that would include serious promotion. If you want an example of how a chess event should be done, check out one of Susan Polgar's events, e.g. this one in Vegas in June:
http://vegaschessfestival.com/youth/
This is actually a pretty low budget event (I would never put people in the Riviera because it is really a dump), but everything is well organized, and they have the requisite big names, simuls, lectures, etc.
Of course this assumes an interest in an event that will generate a lot of buzz and attract a fair number of people. If the goal is just to get the programmers together, you could save money by holding the event at your favorite pub.
http://vegaschessfestival.com/youth/
This is actually a pretty low budget event (I would never put people in the Riviera because it is really a dump), but everything is well organized, and they have the requisite big names, simuls, lectures, etc.
Of course this assumes an interest in an event that will generate a lot of buzz and attract a fair number of people. If the goal is just to get the programmers together, you could save money by holding the event at your favorite pub.
Don't forget that money pays for World Championships in may Computer games not just chess.
![[nl]](/mwf/v12/flags/nl.png "Netherlands")
If they are spending 40K euros on WCCC, somebody must be stealing most of the money.
Yes and it is not difficult to guess who this is
Yes and it is not difficult to guess who this is
Thanks Harvey for correcting me, there is in fact a meaningless ban in place -and there is absolutely nothing else in the world that you or ICGA can do to Vas from this point on. I wish him the best of luck and health in his personal and business life. As far as you are concerned, well, you are stuck talking to the likes of me since Vas and Lukas wouldn't even give you the time of day, much less bring an appeal to you.
Lukas objects to being called a rascal(monkey) so he is not capable of discussing on any forum let alone being a moderator. i was told to eat dog shit but I did not make a formal complaint about his Rybka team colleague saying that to me.
I wish all agreed with you about the ban and would stop posting about it. As nothing will change no matter how many posts you and others make here.
The best discussion here tonight was about Mexico hopefully one day Erdo and I can write the what happened after the final game book!
I wish all agreed with you about the ban and would stop posting about it. As nothing will change no matter how many posts you and others make here.
The best discussion here tonight was about Mexico hopefully one day Erdo and I can write the what happened after the final game book!
I read your discussions about the Mexico event and I did enjoy it. Thank you to both you and "BFL" for that. I have no doubt that you could post very interesting and educational stuff about chess and I would enjoy reading that. The ban is in place, okay, so let it go now, it's up to you now what you wanna post, personal insults or chess related material.
Speaking of Mexico, I am in Cabo now, one of those all inclusive deals, you should get back here, live a little and leave the rain behind.
Speaking of Mexico, I am in Cabo now, one of those all inclusive deals, you should get back here, live a little and leave the rain behind.
i don't know why you had to spoil a nice post with the personal insults remark as if you are completely without guilt. I was hoping you were more than just a troll.
Cabo is really nice this time of year. I wish there wasn't so much news scaring my wife...
Yeah, the news is scary, but as you know the tourist areas are absolutely safe. My only safety concern here is when my son rides that jet ski in the middle of the ocean...
![[de]](/mwf/v12/flags/de.png "Germany")
>Lukas objects to being called a rascal(monkey) so he is not capable of discussing on any forum let alone being a moderator.
Great logic - congrats
>i was told to eat dog shit
Wrong. http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?pid=387981#pid387981
You as well as Jeroen know that this action won't help HIARCS to win. So you shouldn't do it.
But if you report such a post, we will consider removing it.
Btw. I'd be really glad if you could keep your promise:
http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?pid=388783#pid388783
Who reported my post that you deleted? Surely basic mod ethics says if someone makes a post the great Lukas does not like he should wait for a complaint or for another mod to decide what to do? Not just tell the poster he is an asshole and the Dung Beatle of computer Chess. However I will suggest Mark renames Hiarcs as Dung Beatle as i like it. You do know that Monkey in English is the context I used it means rascal? No obviously not but even if you did not you should not have moderated without a complaint. Just like the ridiculous suggestion for Mexico that 2 machines at your house should be used.
I will suggest Mark renames Hiarcs as Dung Beatle
Dung Beetle would be a great name for an engine! But I think Dung Beatle would be Ringo...
Dung Beetle would be a great name for an engine!
But I think Dung Beatle would be Ringo...
> But I think Dung Beatle would be Ringo...
LOL
Hey big pussy....yeah, you big wus, that's right, you Harvey,
For 3 months you have been crying over some worthless post of yours that was deleted. We bought you a new pacifier and you are still not happy. I guess you are lobbying for the right to call people monkey. I got sick of your whinning, so I PM'ed the site administrator, he is gonna look into the matter. He asked me if you were also concerned about other members calling you an assho...., I told him no -that you were okay with that characterization since it was factually correct.
I am sorry about your predicament, you must feel like dog shi..., not being able to call people monkey and all that, but I hope you can man up and make it through this rough patch.
For 3 months you have been crying over some worthless post of yours that was deleted. We bought you a new pacifier and you are still not happy. I guess you are lobbying for the right to call people monkey. I got sick of your whinning, so I PM'ed the site administrator, he is gonna look into the matter. He asked me if you were also concerned about other members calling you an assho...., I told him no -that you were okay with that characterization since it was factually correct.
I am sorry about your predicament, you must feel like dog shi..., not being able to call people monkey and all that, but I hope you can man up and make it through this rough patch.
As a matter of fact, I wrote 'you would eat a dog turd if it would help Hiarcs'. By way of which I want to point out that HW will do just anything if it could help Hiarcs. Simple examples are:
1. Have the ICGA exclude cluster software in the WCCC, only for chess, without consulting the other participants and accompanied by some PR statement 'that it is not in our interest if someone can buy the WCCC title'.
2. Have Vas banned, no matter if it is valid or not, to protect Mark Uniacke's income.
3. Contact Fabien Letouzey to have Grid Chess/Cluster Toga removed from the WCCC.
And there are others. I know HW for some time now, and this is the way he is.
1. Have the ICGA exclude cluster software in the WCCC, only for chess, without consulting the other participants and accompanied by some PR statement 'that it is not in our interest if someone can buy the WCCC title'.
2. Have Vas banned, no matter if it is valid or not, to protect Mark Uniacke's income.
3. Contact Fabien Letouzey to have Grid Chess/Cluster Toga removed from the WCCC.
And there are others. I know HW for some time now, and this is the way he is.
> Amazing! If there is no ban then why are there 10s of thousands of posts about it on this forum?
Because 4, 800 of them (wait-let me get a post update on that Harvey! Okay! It now 4831) come from a guy who does't believe his is really banned either!
Chessbase didn't come out and say this directly, but they sure seemed to imply that Bob is mentally ill.
I wonder if he is capable of self-examination-he seems way to busy reacting.
Yes, but this status is pretty much meaningless. This year's event got almost no publicity, and winning the event wouldn't have provided much in the way of promotion anyway. Vas is certainly better off having saved the money that would have been required to attend this stealth event.
There is a nice article about the Hiarcs win in Chess magazine this month and the Junior win in last months. have not seen them cover the event in detail before. www.chess.co.uk
What Hiarcs win?
I can not see which post you are replying to with the software here. But maybe a good time to note that besides the zappa win in Mexico the only engine to finish ahead of Rybka in a mainstream tournament was Hiarcs which happened 2x. Of course no doubt Rybka dominated from 2005/6.
Are you referring to competitions with pre R1B?
No.
> But it is a fact that it is 'banned for life' and will stay that way no matter how many posts there are here.
Yep, it's all about vindication. Thanks for making your motives crystal clear.
lol, get a life.
Did your teacher also tell you about the pot and the kettle?
he did warn me not to talk to fanboys who have no idea what they are talking about.
Off topic cheapo. Over and out.
i guess that means you resign - thanks for the game.
These are some HW actions in the past, no comments needed:
1. Have the ICGA exclude cluster software in the WCCC, only for chess, without consulting the other participants and accompanied by some PR statement 'that it is not in our interest if someone can buy the WCCC title'.
2. Have Vas banned, no matter if it is valid or not, to protect Mark Uniacke's income.
3. Contact Fabien Letouzey to have Grid Chess/Cluster Toga removed from the WCCC.
1. Have the ICGA exclude cluster software in the WCCC, only for chess, without consulting the other participants and accompanied by some PR statement 'that it is not in our interest if someone can buy the WCCC title'.
2. Have Vas banned, no matter if it is valid or not, to protect Mark Uniacke's income.
3. Contact Fabien Letouzey to have Grid Chess/Cluster Toga removed from the WCCC.
I put HW on ignore (where he joined Bob) but am tempted to undo it to see his reaction to Ed's revealing ICGA voting post
Personally i don't care if the voters names are released or not. I am just amazed at how low Ed will go by breaking clearly defined rules that he agreed to abide by. If he had asked Mark how he voted I am sure he would have told Ed.
I put HW on ignore
Best thing to do! Same with me. It appears HW is very angry. This secret was not supposed to be published.
It seems he has reacted on your posting. Lot of damage control to be done! Pity we can't read it
Best thing to do! Same with me. It appears HW is very angry. This secret was not supposed to be published.
It seems he has reacted on your posting. Lot of damage control to be done! Pity we can't read it
Yep, I see he responded now. Wonder what he has to say. Perhaps Bob can join in and add another empty line to my thread
Not much, I suppose. It is all clear now what the motives were behind their guilty vote:
1. Protect Uniacke's income
2. Win a free world title
IMO the rest is just noise.
1. Protect Uniacke's income
2. Win a free world title
IMO the rest is just noise.
At least my opinions remain constant. I remember one of the 1st conversations I ever had with you at Leiden long before the Rybka Cluster was around. At that time you were of the opinion that an = hardware tournament was the way to go and that the software and opening books should be the way to go. Of course as a man of 0 integrity you changed your mind as soon as Rybka had a cluster.
I bet with hindsight Mark may not be too happy with HW's shenanigans. Hiarcs had quite some of sympathy buyers. That income base must have eroded.
Jackanory
Hiarcs always has been an interesting program, with its own signature, great in kingside attacks and an active playing style. The irony is, that Mark didn't need such actions to keep a lot of fans and people liking the program. But now the harsh truth has come to light and alas, the picture is not pretty. Of course they still can undo the ban, apologize and admit they are wrong.
The really amazing thing is that he seems to think this will solve the problem of HIARCS not being near the top of the heap. Nothing could be further from the truth...
Hiarcs will always be original. Do you think to a human who wants a program to help him prepare against other humans that the strongest in engine v engine play will always be the best help?
A novelty suggested by any top engine that surprises the opponent will be good whichever 3000+ engine suggests it.
A novelty suggested by any top engine that surprises the opponent will be good whichever 3000+ engine suggests it.
Hiarcs will always be original.
No competitive chess engine is original.
Do you think to a human who wants a program to help him prepare against other humans that the strongest in engine v engine play will always be the best help?
Not necessarily, but it's always an advantage to have an engine that searches faster and deeper and with greater accuracy. Engine-engine competitions are not a perfect way of measuring this ability, but their better than any other known method.
A novelty suggested by any top engine that surprises the opponent will be good whichever 3000+ engine suggests it.
Sure, if the novelty surprises the opponent. On the other hand, preparation that isn't as deep as it needs to be can lead to embarrassment. Remember when Kramnik's preparation left him in a lost position? A faster, deeper, more accurate engine is important when you are looking at thousands of positions.
No competitive chess engine is original.
Do you think to a human who wants a program to help him prepare against other humans that the strongest in engine v engine play will always be the best help?
Not necessarily, but it's always an advantage to have an engine that searches faster and deeper and with greater accuracy. Engine-engine competitions are not a perfect way of measuring this ability, but their better than any other known method.
A novelty suggested by any top engine that surprises the opponent will be good whichever 3000+ engine suggests it.
Sure, if the novelty surprises the opponent. On the other hand, preparation that isn't as deep as it needs to be can lead to embarrassment. Remember when Kramnik's preparation left him in a lost position? A faster, deeper, more accurate engine is important when you are looking at thousands of positions.
Hiarcs will always be original.
It is amazing that he still believes this myth. Typical defense mechanism: 'deny what you don't like'.
It is amazing that he still believes this myth. Typical defense mechanism: 'deny what you don't like'.
> Hiarcs will always be original.
I don't believe this for a minute. Under the ICGA rules I believe it and lots of other engines will not qualify as original. Of course those rules (or the interpretation of them by certain people) are the problem.
The really amazing thing is that he seems to think this will solve the problem of HIARCS not being near the top of the heap. Nothing could be further from the truth...
Very true. The impact of Rybka not playing in the WCCC is nearly zero, while there still will be Rybka 5 this year and a lot of other programs being much stronger than Hiarcs. So it beats me why he thinks that this is a major victory for team Hiarcs.
BTW, tournaments with Rybka attract a lot more interest, so it is preferable to be in such a tournament and come in second (preferably with a good result against Rybka), than winning a second rated tournament with none of the top programs present.
Very true. The impact of Rybka not playing in the WCCC is nearly zero, while there still will be Rybka 5 this year and a lot of other programs being much stronger than Hiarcs. So it beats me why he thinks that this is a major victory for team Hiarcs.
BTW, tournaments with Rybka attract a lot more interest, so it is preferable to be in such a tournament and come in second (preferably with a good result against Rybka), than winning a second rated tournament with none of the top programs present.
Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Fruit semantic equivalence of two code sections
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