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Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / Barnard v NATIONAL12 (Chigorin Defence).
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- - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-26 22:30
1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6

r1bqkbnr/ppp1pppp/2n5/3p4/2PP4/8/PP2PPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 3
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-27 00:13 Edited 2011-11-27 00:17
I often read in opening books,not just in this opening but others as well the condescending remark "Maybe ok for its suprise value"

Maybe in some openings this is a valid point esp OTB at club level.

In computer assisted corr chess or centaur chess as most like to refer to it as, this arguement just does not standup.

If the opening is bad it will be exposed quickly enough at this level.

i am hoping this opening will be found sound i have only played a couple of corr games with it and done ok,all engines give it a big negative value at the start for black.

lets see how i get on.:smile:

in one of my previous games Felix stated opening was crap,referring me to games against Steinitz in 19th century,i think we have moved on a bit.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-29 21:56
sorry,i had my week end very bussy Paul,i think i can start monday(yesterday),but until today was impossible to me log in here

here is my move 3.Nf3

i must admit that i never played that opening(at correspondence chess),so i will must re-make my chess analisis

maybe the opening is bad,but is too hard to refute,so at practical games,is good
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-29 22:08
1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nf3 Bg4

r2qkbnr/ppp1pppp/2n5/3p4/2PP2b1/5N2/PP2PPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 4
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-29 22:28
4.Nc3
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-29 22:41
natural developing move avoiding complications,
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-29 22:56
are you sure im avoiding complications Paul? :wink:
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-29 23:07
no.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-29 22:44
1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nf3 Bg4 4.Nc3 e6

r2qkbnr/ppp2ppp/2n1p3/3p4/2PP2b1/2N2N2/PP2PPPP/R1BQKB1R w KQkq - 0 5
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-29 22:48
5.cxd5

    conditional:if 5...exd5 6.h3
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-29 22:55
5.cxd5

   conditional:if 5...exd5 6.h3
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-29 23:04
1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nf3 Bg4 4.Nc3 e6 5.cxd5 exd5 6.h3 Bf5

r2qkbnr/ppp2ppp/2n5/3p1b2/3P4/2N2N1P/PP2PPP1/R1BQKB1R w KQkq - 0 7


well i am still in book but not many games,lets call in the oracle Nelson.:smile:
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-29 23:12
7.Qb3

still in book Paul? :wink: lets see if Nelson has some games with that move and can give us the statistics
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-29 23:17
nope.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-29 23:24
i have an interesting line(not a conditional,is a line,so you must accept all or not accept the entire line) to show you and play at this position,is that:

7...Nf6 8Bd2,a6 9.e3,Be7 10.g4,Ae6 11.0-0-0

i think it  can be interesting fot the opposite castling,so can be more agressive play at th game,and im sure it was never played,so we can open new ways to play it

so if you look at the position,and you think is balanced,we can play it(playing you the move 11),so only tell me if you are ok with the position after 11.0-0-0,or we can continue playing the game normally Paul
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-29 23:28
not sure if i will play 7...Nf6,i have other moves to consider.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-29 23:40
of course,you have more choices...but if you play Nf6,consider to play that position after my queen side castling
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-29 23:42
ok
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-29 23:23
quite frankly atm i dont know if Qb3 is good or bad.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-29 23:37
i dont analiced Qb3 too deeply,but seems for me an interesting move,but maybe im wrong...is difficult find new moves at 7 move of the opening,but remembering our latest game,i wouldnt play theoritecal,that is why i choose it
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-29 23:41
yes defiinitely an interesting move and that is why i am spending some time on my reply
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-29 23:47
dont worry,take as much time as you need...when the position will be more complex,i will need take my time
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-29 23:52
no doubt.:smile:
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 00:02
i love coffe,so with a cup of coffe,and with patience,i will analice our game when it will become more complex :smile:
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-29 23:55
i am trying to force engines into a move i would like to play,this is half the fun of computer chess.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 00:06
of course!im with the think that engines doesnt know play openings,and we need put them the 'ideas',so them are able to analice it,but without the human interactivity,engines are simply lost at opening,so yes,i agree that a lot of fun is to put our own moves and see what engines 'think' about our moves

p.s. im sure your move wont be Nb4,it losses the game :smile:
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-30 00:12
p.s. im sure your move wont be Nb4,it losses the game

maybe i look further than you.

have a look after 7...Nb4 8.e4 Bxe4,just one line i am looking at.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-30 00:17
maybe no good Houdini loves it as white,lets see.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 00:25
that is just a quick analisis after an hipothetical 8...Bxe4;

9.Nx34,Qe7 10.Ne5,dxe4 11.a3,f6 12.Bd2,fxe5 13.Bbx4 an i think the endgame is clearly win for the white(at least OTB)
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-30 00:34
dont worry i will not play 7...Nb4.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 00:40
i think the best move for black here is 7...Nf6,developing the King side and preparing the castling,but maybe im wrong...as i said,is the first time i play that opening(and variation),so mybe there are other moves at that position better than Nf6...
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-30 00:42
maybe the line you gave is best after all.its pretty much a common sense line.
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 00:48
that is why i said that Nb4 losses the game,i was thinking about the endgame derived from that move
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-30 00:07
this position has now become incredibly complex with various top engines giving completely different evaluations and AN.i will have to work through some of these lines,but you must admit this is good and why i wanted to test this defense.:smile:
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 00:13
yes,the position is very complex,but as i said to you,i think engines doesnt completely understand that type of opening
but yes,i admit i love that type of chess,so you made a good choice when you choose that defense
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-30 01:11
7...NF6  i am still looking at rest of line.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-30 01:26
its your turn to play move 8.you posted 8. Bd2 but as i have not yet worked out the line you gave,feel free to change this move if you wish.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 01:41
i posted the move Bd2,as i said,if you accept the whole line Paul,it wasnt a conditional as i never analiced 'move after move',so maybe is a blunder if i change the order of the moves,it was to see if you accept the position after 11.0-0-0;if you accept it,of course,i play Bd2
if you dont accept whe whole line,is interesting here the pawn sacrifice...is your choice,that is why im waiting to make my move and i preffer wait and see if you accept the line or refuse it
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-30 01:44
i dont accept line and that is why i said its now your move 8 to play.
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 01:52
sorry,i didnt get you before...my fault :red:

ok,it is my turn to play 8 move,im going to sleep,is too late
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 14:27
8.e4
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2011-11-30 21:13
will move to left.
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 21:21
ok Paul
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 01:43
im going to bed,give me an answer tomorrow,ok Paul?

good night
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 01:36
i must analice my move now...Bd2 to go into the main line where i castle into the queen side is interesting,but sacrificing my 'e' pawn with 8.e4 is also interesting,so let me to deeply analice it...
as i dont know if will you accept the whole line if i play Bd2,i must analice deeply both moves...in all the cases,sacrificing the pawn is a too interesting move
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2011-11-30 02:28
One game only.  Kreator, Shredder 8-Kampfhamster234, Shredder 8, 1-0, 2004.06.06.  (How's it feel to be following Kampfhamster, Paul?)  7...Nf6 continued in that same game.  Now you can transpose into a different game, too.
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 02:53
Are you sure you got the line right? With all these posts in a mangled mess. :lol:

By the way I'm Just kidding.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2011-11-30 03:35
:lol: Yeah, I reckon plain chronological order would be best, it was hard to follow the comments.
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 14:29
my fault Uly
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2011-11-30 14:28
was my fault Jimmy... :red:
Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / Barnard v NATIONAL12 (Chigorin Defence).
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