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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / Chess256 in Rybka
- - By Matswin (*) [se] Date 2007-09-28 20:07 Edited 2007-09-28 20:55
It's not good that it becomes a competition partly about the best opening
preparation, like in the latest Rybka - Zappa match (at least that's how
some people see it).

Had they played Chess256 instead, then it would have been a proper
measure of playing strength. Chess256 is standard chess, only that
the opening setup for the pawns is chosen randomly while satisfying the
condition that the pawns must be either placed on the second or third
rank. There are 256 possible configurations. All of them are sound and
balanced, and fully playable. Black's setup mirrors white's. In all other
respects this game is the same as orthodox chess.

Please read more here:
http://hem.passagen.se/melki9/randompawn.htm

If we begin with any of the positions in the Chess256 array then the
program is forced to grapple with problems specific to the opening,
which pertain to development, initiative, and opening strategy.
While Black's setup mirrors white's, this should result in a proper
evaluation of strength. One is free to choose opening strategy, whether
to create an unbalanced or a balanced position, etc.

In my view, Chess256 could also solve the problem with computer vs.
human matches. It's an unfair competition while the computer has
recourse to a huge opening library. Thus, the program doesn't need to
know much about play in the first phase of the game. It would be a
more fair competition if Chess256 was employed in computer vs.
human matches. Neither human nor computer would know any theory.
But it would still be regular chess, and not Fischer Random, which is
much different.

Mats
Parent - - By Sesse (****) [no] Date 2007-09-28 23:02
The last Ehlvest vs. Rybka match was played with only a three-move opening book (and several other limitations). Rybka still won 4.5-1.5, so I'm not sure what the lack of an opening book would help you "solve".

/* Steinar */
Parent - - By Sesse (****) [no] Date 2007-09-28 23:07
...and by the way, why are we discussing this in the GUI beta forum? :-)

/* Steinar */
Parent - - By Matswin (*) [se] Date 2007-09-29 04:57
Because it's possible to add a functionality that randomizes the
pawns according to Chess256.

It's not the question of helping a human player to win. He is likely
to lose anyway. But it ought to be fair play. Moreover, in computer
vs. computer games the opening preparation issue is circumvented.
The way the Rybka - Zappa match was played was ridiculous.
They should have either employed Chess256 or they should have
used the same opening book and played the variations with both
colours.
/Mats
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2007-09-30 06:45

> The way the Rybka - Zappa match was played was ridiculous.


Why?

Imagine if human tourneys had such rule that the humans have to play predefined openings or had to play some moves they have not studied to prove their real strength. How would have Fischer felt if he had to play d4 now and then?

One of the reasons that Zappa won was that it entered positions that it played better, while Rybka played them worse, and I don't think that's ridiculous.
Parent - By Matswin (*) [se] Date 2007-10-02 15:35 Edited 2007-10-02 15:38
Well, the only solution is to employ Chess256, then. Chess256 greatly
enlarges chess in that it's now possible to play sound positions that
were never reached before. The standard position is, in fact, not so
free. Today, nobody believes that 1.c4 or 1.d4 can compete with 1.e4.
The former are draws if black knows his theory. With 1.e4 white can no
longer play King's gambit or the Closed Sicilian if he wants to play
for a win. Standard chess is surprisingly narrow today. This is a
great problem in computer-computer matches because they are forced to
play the serious alternatives, and the poor programmers must delve into
opening theory. This is unacceptable. It is already a problem in human
matches, that the game takes place before the actual meeting over
the board. With computer-computer matches this problem is
accentuated.

/mats
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / Chess256 in Rybka

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